Seems so lol
PS3 predictionS now that it launched in all territories
- Thread starter Nesh
- Start date
No, I'm saying quite simply that you can't treat a pre-order as a sale.
And I'm saying a sale is a sale. But I wasn't making a distinction between online and B&M stores. Obviously if you ordered it to be shipped upon release and don't cancel, then the pre-order is turned into a sale automatically. Are you suggesting this is how all pre-orders were handled in Europe?Well, the cancelletion date is closed, it becomes a sale, i don't see what is so difficult to understand about this :/
I didn't say all pre-orders are sales, i said all not cancelled pre-orders are, and on friday, there's no more pre-orders, just shippings
Didn't mean to question your pre-order authority.
Why are you combining sales and pre-orders? I feel like someone's trying to have a debate on something different than my simple point: you can't treat a pre-order like a sale.Aha. So it's 550k to 600k (depending on who you ask) systems in hands of consumers, i.e. preorders and, err, "sales" combined. Better?
Well I don't think we have separated numbers, so all I can do is clarify what I believe the number means. I just don't see why we "can't" unify instanteous sales and pre-orders. A pre-order that goes through still means that there is a customer who wants to have the console, and pays for the console, on day one. it's a different method of, yes, selling something, but all the significant stuff is the same: it brings in money, it increments the install base, and not least another customer who can relate hands-on impressions to peers.
I understand your point now, I just don't understand your reasons.
I just disagree in principal with treating pre-orders as a sales metric, since the sale isn't realized until the final transaction takes place. In other words, its merely an intent to buy, not a purchase.
But I think I'm just arguing semantics which distracts from the real point, if I understand it: given enough supply to satisfy all pre-orders, taking the pre-order count is probably as good a guess of minimum total sales as we're going to get. I just disagreed with treating a pre-order is a guaranteed sale, or the fact that vgcharts is doing so.
And so is vgcharts.org or nex-genwars.com if you want european data. Its guesstimates.
Fact is, that there is no company tracking console sales in EU or europe.
You have no grounds to assume that the numbers we have include cancelled or otherwise unfulfilled pre-orders. Because that's what you're arguing. We wouldn't have this discussion about pre-orders that go through.
We are the ultimate battleground of disinformation.
Right: I'm arguing that you have no grounds to assume that pre-order numbers you have were fulfilled. I'm looking for a positive proof of a sale, not a positive proof of a probable sale.
Bollocks. You're looking for negative spin. The word "sold", which is the one that is being used has exactly one meaning, and it's the one you used for yourself in your second sentence. Just go read the news story. No ambiguity there. Pre-orders are never even mentioned, which pulls the carpet under your request for clarification of what kind of pre-order is included; none explicitly. The number is sales. If you're still unsure about that after reading the news story please seek out a linguistics professor. I'm outta here.
I'm looking for "negative spin"? Show me any post where I've ever spun any news before casting around crap about my posting style.
I don't see any where in my posts here where I've suggested that the reported sold number is disputed. What I disagreed with is the notion that the day before or day of a launch you cold say, "X number units sold because that's how many pre-orders there were." That is, I disagreed with what vgcharts apparently did. Not sure why this gets you riled up so, since it's a fairly intuitive and obvious--and dare I say, benign--point.
Good post. Agreed with your assertion in the first place. (obvious)
Preorder != Sale
[offtopic]
Having said that, I've noticed a bit more animosity towards posts (and posters) which are outside the realm of what could be deemed "positive" viewpoints toward ps3 (or Sony) lately. Hopefully this isn't a trend which will continue as I believe our members and our site deserve better than this.
[/offtopic]
These numbers look to be a solid showing for Sony even if they are a bit lower than previously expected. The next few months should paint a clearer picture in this region but we will likely not have reliable data to gauge demand in the EU region. Software sales or top ten charts could help somewhat but I think store stock/demand and anecdotal will be all we will have to measure HW sales in the region.
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Oh the irony.
Bah just when I was going to post something in the other thread about propaganda it got closed. Anyways I ll post it in here since judging from the discussions made in here it also fits in this thread
Dont discuss this post. Its just an opinion, readable by anyone who is interested otherwise ignore it
I ll begin by saying I didnt read almost anything from the conversation made in this thread.
That said, I am going to say something that may sound kind of radical compared to the expected attitude in these forums...
I sometimes like propaganda. Actually I might add that I miss the old days when I wasnt as knowledgable, when the console giants would come in and announce, "our console has the power to take you into different dimensions, can do jurassic park graphics, toy story graphics, make photorealistic visuals, its as powerful as a CGI workstation" and such and excite people.
I remember Sega's introduction of the DC and its Tech demos. I remember Sony's first demosntration of the PS2. I was blown away, totally excited. It made thinsg interesting for me.
I was ecstatic with gaming because of these. And I would buy or play their offerings and still believe their outlandish claims. When I saw Sonic Adventure at the age of 16 for the first time in magazines I remember me and myself salivading, calling it "wow its better looking than toy story". I remember irimiagiri's face made in real time and we were like "these like claymation only in 3D graphics
I remember watching and playing Shenmue believing that was a virtual world in teh game.
I then remember seeing TTT with jaws dropped. It looked to me as good as the CGI in Tekken3! Or even better!
I remember seeing the final form of GT3 and seeing no difference compared to the GT2's CGI!
gaming was exciting!
It was also exciting when claims such as the PS2 used for missiles etc were said at CNN.
Truelly crazy. None of them had any relation to reality, but they spiced up things.
But as I grew up andthe more I got into things, trying to be as rational, as objective and realistic as possible, I am no longer as excited about games. I see truelly mindblowing things in gaming, such as animation and AI in Assasin's Creed, I see graphics like the ones in GoW, I see crazy physics presented in games such as Motorstorm and I am "bored".
Because now I(we) have become so cynical, and judging we even question the truelly great things, We even tend to turnthe slightest "flaws" into giant nuclear mushrooms. The outlandish claims are TOTALLY fake, the partially real are 3/4 fake, and the actual real are half fake and not so pretty.
I feel like a kid who used to be excited by magical tricks and I later discover how they are done. They are no longer exciting after I know how they are done. They are boring
So there. In every thread we dispute, talk about every single piece of silicon, we question every piece of sale, we find stupid flaws even in the best looking games (oh look I found one blurry texture in FF13, it just looks decent. Oh look, Forza2 looks like plastic cars.Pffft), and in general, what was supposed to be fan, supposed to make us forget politics, every day problems, work etc something that would take us into a world of entertainment without anything to bother our minds at the end is discussed like politics, causes disputes, create stress in some people, and its no longer the exciting world it should have been.
Really this rationality hasnt improved things much either. There is only rational bias unlike then which was irrational bias. Everyone has some rational explanation to back up his bias about a console. In essence not only I cant be just as exscited any more, nothing improved in terms of attitude when discussing. I must say that it may have actually gotten worse.
Dont discuss this post. Its just an opinion, readable by anyone who is interested otherwise ignore it
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Agreed.
Though I think the biggest difference is, back then, the 3d field was like the wild wild west. Anything seemed possible because the impossible was proven possible on a consistant basis. Interesting post Nesh. :smile:
/offtopic
Thanks Nesh for this post.
Which part of "600000 sales" do you not understand?
Beyond ridiculous.
Remember when you were at the movies, you would look at the time, and think "oh no already one hour into the film, soon it´s over, i wish it would never end..."
Or when your friend got the new SNES, you saw, tasted and felt F-Zero and couldn´t believe your eyes, then he would show you the other game he had (bought at insane prices as imports) and you would uhh and ohh through those 2 games...
Few months later he would have a "device" that let him shift through 100´s of games.. suddenly you didn´t feel the magic just as much anymore...
/sorry for being oftopic this would have fitted better in the "not to be mentioned thread"
