PSP2 should be similar to PS3 is power

[Npl]

80% graphical power? useless metric and totally wrong to boot.
Fact is that PSP sits between PS1 and PS2, meaning PSP2 will sit between PS2 and PS3 which will give it 2 analog nubs and motion-controls for 1.50000 axes (yes I calculated that down to 6 decimals).

Definition of fact: See "my opinion"

 

[makattack]

Simple, offer 2 versions, one with bluetooth, one with phone. Both with wifi.

This article is quite relevant:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26112/Opinion_The_Top_5_iPhone_Dirty_Secrets.php

That you describe is essentially the iPhone/iTunes pairing.

 

[Spaceman-Spiff]

Here are the facts:

The PSP has about 80% of the graphical power of a PS2.
The PSP was released 4 years after the PS2.
PSP: year 2004 and PS2: year 2000

Here are the predictions:

The PSP2 should be at least 80% as powerful as the PS3.
The PSP2 should be released 4 years after the PS3.
PSP2:year 2010 and PS3: year 2006

The graphical power difference in PS3 was necessary for the jump to HD.

If PSP2 will have similar resolution with PSP, it won't need 80% the graphical power of a PS3. Unless Sony will include some TV out solution. But it's kinda crazy to expect 720p capabilities on a portable device...

 

[wco81]

Is there a business case for more performance in the handheld space?

PSP couldn't contend with the DS. Lot of early PSP sales may have been to technophiles but it seems demand for console-like performance never met Sony's expectations (or was it KK's vision, in which case why would Sony push PSP2?).

Now, it may well be that people are only willing to spend a couple of bucks for less-deep, simpler games like those on the App. Store. It's not just casuals, because a lot of people who primarily game on consoles or PC are content to play games on the phone for a few minutes at a time in exchange for carrying a converged device.

As for phone features, it may be too late. The smart phone market is growing very fast but is crowded and will probably consolidate around a few big players.

 

[wco81]

But it's kinda crazy to expect 720p capabilities on a portable device...

Looks like the smart phone SOC vendors are moving in this direction.

In the next year or two 64 GB storage on smart phones may become common enough and with that kind of storage, you can store enough 720p content to justify an output?

 

[semitope]

the psp is 80% the power of the ps2?

The thoughts on the psp2 power are terribly overestimated. Handheld gaming doesnt need to rival console gaming and i hope sony can understand that. ps2 power is enough with good game design for a handheld system. Many psp games try to go for a console feel and fail

 

[Lazy8s]

The relative performance of PS2 within its era and of PSP's graphics directly compared to the iPhone's were the examples used by this thread's topic to claim that TBDR was comparatively "slow" and "fixed-function", so the issue of cost is entirely relevant and ends up invalidating the whole claim. Using eDRAM across so much die area didn't make PS2's silicon any cheaper (quite to the contrary, actually), and sacrificing so much die area to use it in the first place represents an inferior design decision compared to a tile buffer and TBDR.

I was only able to estimate the die area used by the PSP's GPU from seeing it in pics, so feel free to correct me on the number of whole multiples of silicon it consumes compared to the roughly 3 mm^2 in 90nm used by the iPhone's MBX Lite + VGP Lite.

The surprisingly close performance achieved by the original iPhone in benchmarks compared to full MBX+VGP platforms like OMAP2420 made me suspect the iPhone's GPU was clocked at the system's 103 MHz bus speed when I first considered it, but some other confusing benchmarks made me think the clock speed might be half of that. Getting this clarification has been helpful; the PSP's GPU is actually clocked only 60%+ higher, then.

 

[Rangers]

I dont "get" a power race in handhelds.

I get it on console. It matters a lot to the hardcore market.

However handhelds are a different story, consoles will always be more powerful anyway so if you really want great graphics why are you playing a handheld? And graphics cant be fully realized and enjoyed on a small screen anyway.

This is not to say, nice visuals have no value on a handheld or anything, of course.

I think building the most powerful box is a surefire way to success in consoles (please lets not rehash this argument if you disagree) but the PSP proved, it isn't in handhelds.

There would be little benefit to Sony in building a PS3 powered handheld, although technologically they couldn't anyway.

In fact, I'd argue a major factor in handhelds since they typically sell less software, is profitable hardware. The fact is contrary to conventional wisdom Apple makes an order of magnitude more profit on iPod hardware than on iTunes or the app store combined, and always has. It's best to be like Nintendo, where the hardware itself is a major source of profit. I'm sure the PSP hardware is the main source of PSP profits as well. The point is, building an expensive handheld, much less a loss leading one, would be bad news.

PSP is far and away the most powerful (compared to DS) handheld anyway, and has always played distant second fiddle. It's quite possible PSP will be more powerful than DS2! Whats the point in more power then?

 

[wco81]

Especially if to exploit the power, you have to spend more on development and sell games at a high price.

iPhone is putting pressure on $30 and $40 games. Nintendo can probably withstand it because they have so many first-party games which will sell in high volumes even in the era of 99 cent games on the App. Store.

 

[Lazy8s]

The smooth responsiveness of the iPhone's zooming/scaling of webpages made web browsing on a mobile more than just a novelty and initiated the iPhone as a revolutionary new computing platform, so the high performance that the iPhone throws at a useful application like web browsing, by combining the processing of the GPU with the CPU, certainly has been important for success in the mobile space.

 

[grandmaster]

This thread is bonkers. The PSP was nowhere near the same level as the PS2. You can compare the respective Gran Turismo games as an approximate comparison. PSP runs at a much lower resolution, with significant reductions across the board.

We know what GPU is going to be in PSP2 any way.

 

[MrFloopy]

PSP = 80% of PS2? only spec that comes close to that is memory capacity.

Let me assure you, overall, the PSP is not even close to 80% PS2 performance. Rough guide we always used was 50% max, except for vertex throughput, which you could almost match the PS2's except for one little problem, the bus. While you were almost matching vertex performance with the PS2, you'd better not be doing anything else.

I've been on the record for sometime, that the PSP is an awesome piece of hardware, that was shot in the back by Sony trying to convince people it was a PS2.

 

[flynn]

Like others have pointed out, your numbers are totally off. The PSP is an amazing piece of hardware but its GPU's power and flexibility are nowhere near the PS2.

The VFPU is pretty powerful and the GPU is your run off the mill fixed function chip. Most of the tricks you would use on a PS2 with texturing simply don't apply on the PSP. You end up making compromises and trying to keep as much stuff as possible in VRAM (lo res, T8 or T4 textures, etc)

I see a potential for a 720p capable PSP2. The PSP has video output but it doesn't look great on the big TV. A 720p system would be awesome as you could carry it with you everywhere and plug it into a TV at home.

Add a 3g phone and I'm sold.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I dont see the problem with PSP2 going for high performance. While PSP isnt no1 in the handheld in the market i see it as a successful first attempt. Had the PSP not been as advanced as it was it would have been far less successful. Just because PSP hasnt sold as well as DS doesnt make it a failure or invalidate its design principles, that is the same as arguing that Wii invalidates HD gaming, it doesnt. Trying to make conclusions from Sonys first attempt in the market is pointless, especially when PSP has sold rather well anyway.

 

[Clockwork]

I was only able to estimate the die area used by the PSP's GPU from seeing it in pics, so feel free to correct me on the number of whole multiples of silicon it consumes compared to the roughly 3 mm^2 in 90nm used by the iPhone's MBX Lite + VGP Lite.

The iPhone 3GS does not use that chipset. It uses (speculated) a SGX535 + VXD.

 

[Lazy8s]

I've been comparing only the original iPhone/touch devices because they're capabilities alone are enough to show the proficiency of TBDR.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If the PSP2 is also a smartphone, I'm not even going to touch it.

If Sony are smart they'll position the PSP2 along the lines of the Nintendo DS rather than the iPhone.

Regards,
SB

 

[fehu]

This is Assassin creed on the psp
http://www.crushfragdestroy.com/wp-...ins-creed-bloodlines-screens/ac_psp_s_004.jpg

 

[specwarGP2]

If the PSP2 is also a smartphone, I'm not even going to touch it.

If Sony are smart they'll position the PSP2 along the lines of the Nintendo DS rather than the iPhone.

Regards,
SB

Like another poster mentioned, it should be offered in two skus: one with 3G and the other without. Just like how apple does it with the iphone and ipod touch. they're the almost exactly the same with the major difference being (obviously) that one can be used as a phone and the other cannot.

 

[rendezvous]

I think that it will be to big it it has the same form factor as the PSP or PSP Go if it is meant to double as a phone.