Destiny [PS3,X360,PS4,XO]

[Shifty Geezer]

By the way people gravitated toward disconnecting Crota, gamers always are looking for the easiest way out and that's quite frankly against the spirit of overcoming a challenge.

Except they do overcome the challenge, in the easiest way possible. That's human ingenuity for you! And for a lot of people, being able to breeze through difficulties is 'rewarding', or enjoyable. They like being OP and unstoppable, by and large. I can see how it undermines the value for players who enjoy real teamwork, but it's not wrong. I'd say an analogy is a fantasy RPG where some people want to play as characters and others play as their normal everyday selves. If you want to play Mordollock the Wizard in a roleplay, you need to find a team of like minded players. If you just group up with randoms, you'll have to accept some (probably most, if not all!) don't want to roleplay and will talk pointless everyday nonsense over chat and call you weird if you chat in character.

I don't think the game needs to be tampered with. It just needs better groupings to ensure like-minded folk play it the same way together.

 

[orangpelupa]

^^ outsmarting and "breaking" the game is what i enjoy most from gameplay. THats why i love gaming on PC, thats why i looooove MGS series, thats why Destiny quickly become my labor of love at very rapid pace. When destiny come out, there were no game in PS4 that i can outsmart or break and have interesting gameplay elements (fallen can crawl to ceilings, playing halo with friends, etc) and intriguing story (but then fell totally flat).

dragonage inquisition only can be outsmarted by messing around the enemy AI with environment. I jump very low, etc it sux. Fez encourage the player to play smart (jump then switch perspective, etc) is awesome but im bored with platformers.

 

[-tkf-]

No matchmaking for strikes outside of vanguard, this means if you want to do weekly/daily strikes there is no matchmaking. I don't know about Nightfall but I suppose it's similar.

Also I haven't got a single legendary or exotic gear yet, the only legendary I have is the one shotgun Bungie gifted to everyone a week or two ago. Every drop I get is worse than what I have, except for the one piece of gauntlet and chest armour I got two days ago and I have played the game for over 10-12 hours since then. Forget getting +18 light stuff or more, I barely get stuff that cross +10. haha

Yep, you can select to do the strikes on your own, except if they are daily afaik. If you go the vanguard route, you pick difficulty and get a random strike, and match making. As for drops, the game is pretty intelligent when it comes to drops, green, blue and violet drops are based on your lvl. Blues are rare to begin with but become more the norm later. Tldr, as you lvl up so does the drops. Violets are still rare at lvl 31

 

[NRP]

This game is kind of losing its appeal for me. I wish there was something (with a decent reward) to do more often than just once per week.

I also wish they would do crazy stuff once in a while, like for one weekend in PvE your character can equip all exotic armor and weapons. Or occasional random crazy stuff like spawn multiple Devil Walkers and Ogres who battle each other during Public Events. Maybe even have Atheon or Crota run out into the field whacking people. That would be hilarious (and awesome).

 

[orangpelupa]

@NRP that would be awesome. Long ago when PC still a king in online multiplayer, we have clan fight in crazy environment dictated by admin. It was A BLAST
heck L4D2 is still awesome (HERE 2 TANKS. oooh the survivor is too elite, here another 3 tanks!)

 

[nightshade]

So about factions, if I join one then does it mean I will stop getting reputation for crucible ?


Also, I hope people have given Bungie a lot of crap for the lack of missions. Even with DLCs there are only 6 strikes and 2 raids...that's fuck all content and they all play out the same everytime. Have they never played Borderlands ? You can't expect people to play the game consistently for a year if that's all you have and if a DLC only adds one raid, three small story mission and one strike. People will burn out with such limited options, I don't even understand how my friends have been playing this every day for the past two months.

 

[Strange]

Except they do overcome the challenge, in the easiest way possible. That's human ingenuity for you! And for a lot of people, being able to breeze through difficulties is 'rewarding', or enjoyable. They like being OP and unstoppable, by and large. I can see how it undermines the value for players who enjoy real teamwork, but it's not wrong. I'd say an analogy is a fantasy RPG where some people want to play as characters and others play as their normal everyday selves. If you want to play Mordollock the Wizard in a roleplay, you need to find a team of like minded players. If you just group up with randoms, you'll have to accept some (probably most, if not all!) don't want to roleplay and will talk pointless everyday nonsense over chat and call you weird if you chat in character.

I don't think the game needs to be tampered with. It just needs better groupings to ensure like-minded folk play it the same way together.

This is a lot like claiming you've broken the ATM accidentally, took a lot of money because the ATM has a bug and spews a lot of money, and then justifying it by saying it's the ATM's fault and what you've taken is legit.

It's okay to find stuff like that out. It's not okay when people exploit it. Finding an error in the banking system is great but it doesn't justify you exploiting it.

 

[Xalion]

Except they do overcome the challenge, in the easiest way possible. That's human ingenuity for you! And for a lot of people, being able to breeze through difficulties is 'rewarding', or enjoyable. They like being OP and unstoppable, by and large. I can see how it undermines the value for players who enjoy real teamwork, but it's not wrong.

I would say there is a spectrum between "clever use of mechanics" and "cheating". The first I think is fine. Finding cover spots, exploiting pathing errors, and stuff like that I am generally OK with. They are people using their minds to overcome encounters in ways that the developers didn't expect. I have little problem with people doing it. I also don't mind when Bungie determines that something is too easy and fixes it.

However, there are things that are just plain cheating. The Crota disconnect glitch is one of them. You are physically altering your hardware to force the game into a bugged state where the encounter cannot continue in order to win. There is no difference between that and a lag switch in PVP in my opinion. Both are clearly cheating - they use no game mechanics and rely on the ability to force the game into a bugged state to work. I think Bungie should come down hard on people who use this type of exploit. My reasoning is that exploiting this bug can make things worse for other players. The lag switch in PVP is a great example, but even in PVE I've seen people using net code tricks to glitch things that have caused me trouble on strikes.

I would agree that for most issues it isn't black and white. For instance, using the warlock res to cheese the bridge fight. Technically, you are using only game mechanics. However in that case it bypasses so much of the fight that it borders on glitching. I think people here have to make personal judgement calls. This is where pushing Atheon fell for me. I can see why some disliked it, I can see why some liked it. I think different people have different tolerances for where along this scale they draw the line. I think I would end up more like where Strange is on this one. I think people in Destiny where crossing the line with some of the things they were doing. I believe my biggest request in all of this would be that Bungie draw a clear line somewhere on the scale though. Right now, it is hard to tell where they stand.

 

[Xalion]

So about factions, if I join one then does it mean I will stop getting reputation for crucible ?

Yes - wearing a faction item stops giving you rep towards Crucible. It also stops giving you rep towards Vanguard. That being said, the faction items tend to be better in my opinion that Crucible. I would however get Vanguard to level 3 before switching.

Also, I hope people have given Bungie a lot of crap for the lack of missions. Even with DLCs there are only 6 strikes and 2 raids...that's fuck all content and they all play out the same everytime. Have they never played Borderlands ? You can't expect people to play the game consistently for a year if that's all you have and if a DLC only adds one raid, three small story mission and one strike. People will burn out with such limited options, I don't even understand how my friends have been playing this every day for the past two months.

I actually agree. I thought there was plenty of content at launch, because I knew a DLC would be coming in 3 months. I was more than a bit put off by the DLC being so small and then reusing so much content. I've been more than a bit unhappy with Bungie since. However, I like the people I play with, and we have fun together so I doubt I will quit any time soon.

 

[orangpelupa]

yeah, the crota disconnect is gravitating more to glitch than outsmarting the game.

@nightshade
if you have free time and super bored in destiny, try playing one of the House of Wolf DLC mission. Its in King's Watch. You will fight a group of fallen with archon-like enemy (forgot its name).

the entire map is working fine, complete with enemies and dead ghosts.

EDIT:
some people said its already working fine since alpha.

i wonder what changed in destiny from Alpha to final? O_O just bug fixes?

EDIT2:
maybe the Alpha in destiny is actually already cooked and developed, everything already in-place. So other game will call it Beta, but destiny call it alpha.

 

[nightshade]

I just want a Borderlands trilogy on PS4 with all DLC so that I can pressure my friends into buying it

This is a lot like claiming you've broken the ATM accidentally, took a lot of money because the ATM has a bug and spews a lot of money, and then justifying it by saying it's the ATM's fault and what you've taken is legit.

That's a poor analogy.
There would be nothing wrong with glitching an ATM and taking a lot of money if it wasn't for the fact that it's a morally dubious thing to do and is unlawful. Glitching game isn't the same, much less doing something like using the world geometry to do what a character is able to normally do outside of the boss fights so as to get an advantage.

 

[Strange]

I just want a Borderlands trilogy on PS4 with all DLC so that I can pressure my friends into buying it



That's a poor analogy.
There would be nothing wrong with glitching an ATM and taking a lot of money if it wasn't for the fact that it's a morally dubious thing to do and is unlawful. Glitching game isn't the same, much less doing something like using the world geometry to do what a character is able to normally do outside of the boss fights so as to get an advantage.

We're talking about forcing Crota to kneel indefinately making the encounter a cakewalk. That's messing with the netcode, much the same as hacking into an ATM, albeit much easier to do.

If you think glitching an ATM intentionally to take (steal) a lot of money if perfectly fine other than it being unlawful I may have to end the conversation here because clearly we have very different values. I don't consider theft as being okay even if it isn't a part of the law.

 

[nightshade]

That's why I also said it's morally dubious, as that's what makes theft...theft. I was trying to reduce the statement there since morals are what make things right and wrong but that was probably unnecessary to mention in this discussion.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is a lot like claiming you've broken the ATM accidentally, took a lot of money because the ATM has a bug and spews a lot of money, and then justifying it by saying it's the ATM's fault and what you've taken is legit.

Breaking an ATM is theft - legally and, for most folk, morally wrong. Cheating a game that you are playing to have fun playing it is...just playing it differently. If no-one's affected but you, how can it be wrong? I hacked 16 bit games and tweaked the parameters sometimes to change the game, including over powering my weapons (UFO Enemy Unknown, grenade launcher amped up to massive power, auto-shooting blowing away large chunks of scenery! ). That's just one way I enjoyed the games. That's not the remotest bit like stealing!

However, there are things that are just plain cheating. The Crota disconnect glitch is one of them. You are physically altering your hardware to force the game into a bugged state where the encounter cannot continue in order to win...

I agree that's cheating. But if that's what some people like to do and it doesn't adversely affect the experience others are having, there's nothing wrong with it. It's like cheat codes of yore. If someone wants to play with Infinite Health and complete the game with no challenge, fair enough.

My reasoning is that exploiting this bug can make things worse for other players. The lag switch in PVP is a great example, but even in PVE I've seen people using net code tricks to glitch things that have caused me trouble on strikes.

Having not played Destiny beyond Beta, if some people's play is adversely affecting others (eg. Someone cheating a boss to kill them when others want to fight them properly) then it is an issue. That said, I'd go with my former idea first which is group people into like intentions. "LFG cheat boss" and "LFG no cheats".

I believe my biggest request in all of this would be that Bungie draw a clear line somewhere on the scale though. Right now, it is hard to tell where they stand.

Drawing a line will alienate some people. If the line doesn't have to be drawn, it needn't be.

Oo, I can recall a similar game. In Starhawk, coop, you could cheat the game between enemy waves by getting one stuck on scenery. That'd give you unlimited time to improve your base. Me and my friends loved this and played the game a lot. Then it got 'fixed' and waves timed-out, stopping our base building. That's how the devs intended it to be played but not what we enjoyed about the game. With the base building aspect gone, we lost interest. The ideal solution - a switch. "Round time outs". Those who want the challenge of the higher pressure fights have it. Those who enjoyed the base building more have it.

 

[Strange]

Breaking an ATM is theft - legally and, for most folk, morally wrong. Cheating a game that you are playing to have fun playing it is...just playing it differently. If no-one's affected but you, how can it be wrong? I hacked 16 bit games and tweaked the parameters sometimes to change the game, including over powering my weapons (UFO Enemy Unknown, grenade launcher amped up to massive power, auto-shooting blowing away large chunks of scenery! ). That's just one way I enjoyed the games. That's not the remotest bit like stealing!

I agree with you if this is a pure single player game.

 

[Xalion]

Breaking an ATM is theft - legally and, for most folk, morally wrong. Cheating a game that you are playing to have fun playing it is...just playing it differently. If no-one's affected but you, how can it be wrong? I hacked 16 bit games and tweaked the parameters sometimes to change the game, including over powering my weapons (UFO Enemy Unknown, grenade launcher amped up to massive power, auto-shooting blowing away large chunks of scenery! ). That's just one way I enjoyed the games. That's not the remotest bit like stealing!

Keep in mind that you digitally signed a ToS when you start playing the game that you would not intentionally exploit bugs and exploits when you agreed to play Destiny online. I can think of very few moral codes where lying would be considered morally correct even when not strictly illegal. Sure - most people lie and fairly frequently. Doesn't make it right.

In this case I don't think there is any moral high ground that can be defended for people that are using things external to the game to gain an advantage.

I agree that's cheating. But if that's what some people like to do and it doesn't adversely affect the experience others are having, there's nothing wrong with it. It's like cheat codes of yore. If someone wants to play with Infinite Health and complete the game with no challenge, fair enough.

Having not played Destiny beyond Beta, if some people's play is adversely affecting others (eg. Someone cheating a boss to kill them when others want to fight them properly) then it is an issue. That said, I'd go with my former idea first which is group people into like intentions. "LFG cheat boss" and "LFG no cheats".

I would say the example you gave falls far more into the gray area. You are technically using an in game mechanic (pathing) to achieve a result the devs didn't intend. A more similar example to the Crota bug would be you running a mod in the background that would make it so enemy waves no longer spawned. Even then, cheats like the one you described are rarely if ever allowed in competitive play.

The Crota example is different. I can't think of a time it is ever OK in a multi-player game. For Destiny, I can give a concrete example of how this type of cheating affects everyone. It is really simple - Iron Banner. It is a PVP event in which your gear is taken into account. It tends to run every three weeks or so for a week. If you cheat to obtain better gear than your competitors, you have gained an unfair advantage through cheating. There are others as well though. Gun perks always count in PVP. Some of the raid guns have unique perks or perks balanced for rapid killing. Getting those through cheating gives you an unfair advantage in PVP. I've been killed while trying to get "complete a strike without dying" bounties when suddenly the game pauses for minutes on end then resumes. I would blame my own connection but invariably when it happens someone has used that time to run through all of the sections that can be skipped up to the boss. There are other similar things to that.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I agree, from the way you describe it the Crota glitch is wrong. My arguments didn't understand the specifics of this situation.

 

[Xalion]

I agree, from the way you describe it the Crota glitch is wrong. My arguments didn't understand the specifics of this situation.

Just to explain the exact mechanics. The fireteam enters and starts the fight. When they force him to kneel down the first time, the host interrupts or disconnects his network connection (on the PS4 this was normally accomplished by unplugging the network cable - on the XBox one you could do it from the dashboard). He waits 10 seconds or so and joins back in. At that point, Crota stays kneeling down. While adds continue to spawn, Crota himself will not move, shoot, etc. He is also always vulnerable to the sword. A good swordbearer can kill him in 1 sword. A bad one will take two. Normally what would happen is that Crota would kneel down and be down for approximately 3 seconds. After which he regenerates his shield and stands back up. The majority of the fight done legitimately is to get him to kneel at the right time so the sword bearer can take him out without having him stand back up and waste the sword bearer with any of his numerous one shot attacks.

It seems to be a bug in the net code that kept event timers for the raids only on the hosts machine. When the host disconnected, a new host was chosen but the timers didn't get updated. So Crota never received the event to stand back up.

 

[nightshade]

Speaking of fairness and unfair advantage, can I just say that for a loot based game (one where the loots are needed to even access the contents cause otherwise the game locks you out), Destiny does a piss poor job at providing you with the said loot. Because they are completely dependent on RNG, it does not matter how many hours you sink in or how well you do in crucible as they do not affect your drop rate at all, and that is a quite frustrating. How would they account for the fact that someone can get high level gear in 10 minutes while some can't get it even in 10 hours. I've given up expecting for a legendary drop, I'll just upgrade my vanguard/crucible stats.

I want to do raids with my friends and I need to reach level 28 for that and so far I haven't gotten a single drop that's above rare. How am I suppose to do this if all I get is rare gear that is worse than what I have equipped ? No level progression since last 3 days and I have played loads, I'm level 2 in both Crucible/Vanguard and halfway through approaching level 3. Have 100 vanguard marks and 80 Crucible Marks.

Yet I've never managed a legendary, I am Cryptarch level 3 meaning I've decoded a shit ton of engrams and after level 15 or so I've never managed a gear better than what I have equipped, never even seen a purple or gold engram (well I guess that's raid stuff, but hey the game won't let me play raid).


Story remains the same even after 10 hours

 

[RenegadeRocks]

you just started playing Guardian and you want exotic engrams ! ! ! I do not detest the loot system at all. 99% of loot in Diablo3 is anyways waste, all white,grey and other shit. Getting a legendary or a set in D3 is equally tough. Also, in D3 you grow out of your legendaries, but in Destiny Legenadires are top tier weapons that can hold against even Exotics. There are no low level legendary weapons at all.
Raids anyways provide assured loots if u feel so. You just need to level up, there's enough loot in Destiny, IMO. Level 3 Cryptarch isn't much of a level at all, its 3. Play the Vangard playlist, its the quickest way of getting legendary engrams.

The only thing that has me aggravated is the cap on Ascendent shards in a day. Daily is the only way to get it, with a chance one might get energy instead, and there also u can't get more than 2. That seriously stops ur levelling.