Destiny [PS3,X360,PS4,XO]

[nightshade]

Thanks.
So I cannot make more than 100 Vanguard marks in a week and the cheapest armour costs 75 marks. That's just artificially lengthening the play time.

The game is different now I guess, especially considering now I can't just do bounties to level up but have to slog my way through and grind so that I get the marks and reps, it's the same as before but I suppose I have to do even more now to just gain even one more level.


And once again, does it ever explain all this stuff to you in game? You just get a message stating xyz mode is now unlocked but do they expect me to google what this mode does? I mean I honestly thought the "events" were random rather than timed with a whole website dedicated to it.

 

[Strange]

This is the irony. Nowadays gamers complain that games hand-hold us too much. When developers really start to not hand-hold us people complain again.

 

[nightshade]

This is the irony. Nowadays gamers complain that games hand-hold us too much. When developers really start to not hand-hold us people complain again.

I completely disagree with you. Not explaining game mechanics and having to look into the internet for it is bad design. Games in the past had manuals, games these days don't because they contain in game explanation and omitting them from the equation is bad design. The public events have a set timer, as someone who went into Destiny blind (as far as mechanics go) how the hell am I suppose to know that I need to check a website to check the occurrence of events? The website IS there to help the players but how is it hand holding to tell us about the website in the game?

Souls for example explains a lot of things in game and in a non "hand holding" fashion but they are also guilty of not explaining a lot of things, you tell me if you would be able to understand world tendencies in Demon's Souls without the help of internet or a guide. Resident Evil 6 is a divisive game but it undoubtedly has a pretty fantastic movement set for the player and it doesn't tells you about it properly anywhere ! That is bad design, not developers trying to not let players figure it out themselves. And these are gameplay menchanics, something that you can still understand by playing on your own over time. What I am complaining about in Destiny is the lack of explanation of how things work, not the gameplay considering there's so much different stuff in it.

Hand holding complaints are with regards to some specific gameplay and level design, instead of everything. Not helping the player does not mean dropping them off with no explanation. Destiny is the last example you could use for a good implementation of a game telling the player to figure it out themselves. A good implementation is Minecraft and since we are talking about MMO esque design a good implementation is WoW.

 

[orangpelupa]

metal gear games usually awesome in not too handholding with its crazy amount of mechanic.

Destiny is simply... err.. no explanation? Everything is too random to understand from normal playtrough without googling stuff. Their limitation also feel abritary in many cases.

 

[NRP]

@nightshade
Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. Destiny is kind of a mess. It feels like they really didn't know what type of game they wanted to make. Despite being a "big" game (in terms of level size), it actually feels quite small due to the lack of content and repetition.

At any rate, it's fun enough once you figure out all this stuff.

 

[orangpelupa]

@NRP
the level size in destiny is small compared to other games i played. Its smaller than titanfall, battlefield, Left4dead. the freedom also smaller (too many friggin invisible wall). But it is bigger than CoD.

EDIT:
i miss titanfall. Why nobody plays it on SEA.

 

[NRP]

Titanfall is great, if you play with a familiar group. Going in solo can be an exercise in frustration, unless you're "leet" like Brit.

 

[JPT]

The public events have a set timer, as someone who went into Destiny blind (as far as mechanics go) how the hell am I suppose to know that I need to check a website to check the occurrence of events? The website IS there to help the players but how is it hand holding to tell us about the website in the game?

If we are talking about http://destinypublicevents.com/
Then the website, is not by Bungie. The events are supposed to be "random", but somebody "figured" it out and made the website.

As for the other things, like telemetry etc, it looks like they are explained to some degree and with usage you will notice/learn more. Like that it also buffs xp earnings when you cash in bounties and level up your vanguard/crucible/crotas bane reputation.

To me that is part of the game, learning and exploring how it works and not explaining it in minute detail, makes the experience more mine than just follow the strategies/solutions others has come up with. I mean cheesing Omnigul in the mission where you have to kill her, is a much more fun experience when you figured it out during playtime how to do it. Than looking it up on youtube and go and do it, at least in my book.

So not getting everything explained or force feed to you, is not a bad thing in my view.

 

[nightshade]

I wouldn't call it force feeding cause what Destiny is doing now is starving you instead..but whatever

@NRP
Yes indeed
That's the first thing I noticed, Bungie kept saying how this is the biggest game they've ever made but I don't see the big anywhere except the level size and there are only 4 levels. A small scale open world game like Infamous or Saints row has bigger levels than this. There really is nothing to do apart from redoing the strikes and raids (who even touches main missions once they hit 20?). I am realising what a grind it is considering the time it takes for me (at level 23) to finish even one strike that's level 20-24) for the paltry reward (+3 marks? when the cost to buy armour is 75 at the very least). There are three different standard currencies in game and a few other secondary currency (such as mote of light). And the DLC added yet another for of currency. The light system exists purely for grinding. I would have considered it a big game had Bungie added more things to do rather than different versions of the same things. Having the option to do a strike at 4 different level is not content, that's just grind).

Borderlands (the second one especially) in all honesty is a MUCH bigger game than Destiny and has better weapons (it's fun to trade), and with the DLC it's insane in terms of content.
Looking at the DLC that Destiny offers for the high price it's a joke, good thing I only paid 40 quid for both the game and the DLC.

The thing that makes me keep coming back to Destiny is the same thing as any loot based game, you just want to get better stuff. The gunplay is good fun and the music's good, rest is poo.

 

[Nisaaru]

Look at the game from a psychological perspective. The repetition programs the sub conscious of players and that creates an addiction. Activision/Bungie officially entered the drug business with the game and you'll gonna "love" it....

 

[Strange]

I completely disagree with you. Not explaining game mechanics and having to look into the internet for it is bad design. Games in the past had manuals, games these days don't because they contain in game explanation and omitting them from the equation is bad design. The public events have a set timer, as someone who went into Destiny blind (as far as mechanics go) how the hell am I suppose to know that I need to check a website to check the occurrence of events? The website IS there to help the players but how is it hand holding to tell us about the website in the game?

Souls for example explains a lot of things in game and in a non "hand holding" fashion but they are also guilty of not explaining a lot of things, you tell me if you would be able to understand world tendencies in Demon's Souls without the help of internet or a guide. Resident Evil 6 is a divisive game but it undoubtedly has a pretty fantastic movement set for the player and it doesn't tells you about it properly anywhere ! That is bad design, not developers trying to not let players figure it out themselves. And these are gameplay menchanics, something that you can still understand by playing on your own over time. What I am complaining about in Destiny is the lack of explanation of how things work, not the gameplay considering there's so much different stuff in it.

Hand holding complaints are with regards to some specific gameplay and level design, instead of everything. Not helping the player does not mean dropping them off with no explanation. Destiny is the last example you could use for a good implementation of a game telling the player to figure it out themselves. A good implementation is Minecraft and since we are talking about MMO esque design a good implementation is WoW.

I actually find game mechanic exploration fun in itself, so I wouldn't consider it bad design because I like to figure out stuff that devs don't tell us. Some people like to be spoon fed, but I like to perform tests by myself and make conclusions. It allows me, who likes to experiment and test stuff, to have an edge over other people that simply don't invest the time to do the same.

Heck it was also why I was so crazy about the monster hunter series.

I have to say that if Bungie gave out damage formulas instead of people figuring out for themselves stuff like being undertiered induces heavy penalties it would be much less fun.

 

[orangpelupa]

@Strange
i also love to explore destiny (the map, the mechanic, the bare story, all of it) but its hard to understand which one is forbidden which one is TWBMTBP. The hardest kick in the nut i ever experienced is when we devised a strategy to kill atheon by placing experts further away, thus making them always teleported. But no.. this is not TWBMTBP.

some weird things, bungie love to place Chest and Ghost in weird area that you would though "doesnt this is exploiting the world geometry?" but bungie punish us when doing the same for any activity (PvE and PvP).

EDIT:
btw dont explore the story and world too much. ... i explored it too much and now understand that

Spoiler

almost all narrative that The Speaker, Eris, everybody told us is a lie

i do think bungie did not plan it to be like that, but the stuff they say and the stuff we experienced is completely different.

no wonder The Speaker and Exo Stranger refuses to tell us anything more substansial...

 

[NRP]

Eris is a crazy bitch. I don't listen to her anyway.

 

[orangpelupa]

Eris is a crazy bitch. I don't listen to her anyway.

totally crazy. Remember the stuff she told us to do? CRAZY

 

[Strange]

@Strange
i also love to explore destiny (the map, the mechanic, the bare story, all of it) but its hard to understand which one is forbidden which one is TWBMTBP. The hardest kick in the nut i ever experienced is when we devised a strategy to kill atheon by placing experts further away, thus making them always teleported. But no.. this is not TWBMTBP.

some weird things, bungie love to place Chest and Ghost in weird area that you would though "doesnt this is exploiting the world geometry?" but bungie punish us when doing the same for any activity (PvE and PvP).

EDIT:
btw dont explore the story and world too much. ... i explored it too much and now understand that

Spoiler

almost all narrative that The Speaker, Eris, everybody told us is a lie

i do think bungie did not plan it to be like that, but the stuff they say and the stuff we experienced is completely different.

no wonder The Speaker and Exo Stranger refuses to tell us anything more substansial...

How so? current "forbidden" stuff are clearly not part of game design (heavy ammo bug that led to ban).

I agree Templar sniper platforms change is a bit of an overreaction but it wasn't that much of a obstacle for people who knew what to do.

Patching pushing off cliff they should have done much earlier.

 

[orangpelupa]

what i mean is normal gamplay convention that suddenly forbidden by bungie. Please bear with my broken english:

- Stay on top of hill as vantage point.
Player using world geometry for their advantage is forbidden inside VoG, while chest and dead ghosts use world geometry to hide is OK everywhere. Player using world geometry as they see fit also OK for Archon Priest Strike, Crota's End, VoG gate, and much more.

- Placing expert players away from atheon.
Player using known gameplay mechanic to optimize the playtrough , then suddenly bungie say its not OK, its not how we meant to be played.

- Staying on other room for vantage point.
This is OK on anywhere except the new PS exclusive strike (the moldy sekrion, forgot its real name)

- Invisible or kill wall
any explanation needed? On some place there's invisible wall that very close to the player while there were none in other place (or very far from player).

cant bungie be consistent? what the player allowed to do and what is forbidden? or at least, if you dont want the player to explore the geometry like a maniac, dont put dead ghosts and chest in crazy geometry...

I get the feeling that Destiny has 2 clashing philosophy.
1. The sandbox world for the players to explore
vs
2. The themepark world where the players free to choose the rides. and play according each and every ride rules.


EDIT:
the inconsistencies is even worse between the story and what the player experienced.

 

[nightshade]

Yea I hope they improve things considerably in the Comet DLC and Destiny 2.
Not buying if it's more of the same.

Also about the exo stranger, man that line "I don't even have time to explain why i don't have time to explain" was so unreal. What's even more hilarious is that she did end up explaining what to do next and she had the time to come and meet the player.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

yup, mess it is. feels more so after the DLC. I just got the Hawkmoon !

Hell Yeah ! High Five the whole room ! Fall out of my chair ! My Dream has come true an tear leaves my eye : Hawkmoon ! ! !

But , no: Don't celebrte yet: Its PRe-DLC stats on the Hawkmoon ! Which means I will have to wit till Xur arrives with the Hawkmoon upgrade and I can give it back to him and upgrade it with an exotic shard ! Uptill then there is no p[pint using it as all my stat unlocks will be lost during the upgrade !
BUNGIE: WHY THE HELL ARE WE GETTING PRE DLC EXOTICS AFTER THE DLC ????

And so many currencies and very low ceiling for weekly earnings: I hope they sort it All out by the time Comet arrives.

 

[orangpelupa]

@nightshade
other hilarious scenes:
- The Queen Awoken that did not recognize your character is Awoken
- The Queen Awoken that put knife on your Exo's throat (im a robot, what is your puny knife doing here?)
- Ghost that did not realized he has revived an Awoken
- Exo Stranger that jump to cliff on ending (yeah, its an artistic decission to make it as if she "disappear into the future" but it simply looks like she suicided to mee lol)
- The Speaker "I could tell you a lot of story guardian, i could tell you when mankind is in Golden Age, i could tell you the story of darkness that scared kids to death, now the story has stopped but they are still scared". sorry, what? can you repeat that speaker?
- Ghost when super easily break into Ishtar Academy door because he have personal reason to go inside rather than became our useless sidekick.
- Eris with her "balloon" ship, tied into Tower's railing
- Archon Priest where the intro say "the queen bounty is high. We need to destroy the archon before he is fully revived". He is sitting right beside a cliff for Light's sake... just push him...
- Exclusion Zone where the intro scene showing our space ship zig-zag through buildings just to say "look ma! i can zigzag" for no reason.

annoying scene:
Stranger: "did you heard of black garden?"
Ghost: "yeah, we've heard the legend".
Me: stop, stop. what legend are we talking about?

@RenegadeRocks
after the update, VoG will drop next-gen exotics levels

 

[RenegadeRocks]

@RenegadeRocks
after the update, VoG will drop next-gen exotics levels

So, I am just at the mercy of when XUR might bring Hawkmoon for upgrade ???? Has he brought Hawkmoon before? Cos this week it was just the Thorn and no other Hand cannon. Why can't they just update the stats ? I got the HAWKMOON for Eff's sake, I want to use it !!!!