Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[iroboto]

Which can be said of PS5...which was my point...

Graphics and framerate is everything man. I don't know why upgrading to get better performance and graphics is suddenly no longer a valid point to upgrade. No one on PC has to upgrade either, but people love to do it. it'll be 7 years for some of these folks since their last console purchase, some of these titles like RDR2 and others can barely be enjoyed on XBO.

You're thinking they won't upgrade because there isn't exclusive games on XSX? You can't be serious in thinking someone can't see the difference between a game on XBO and the same title on XSX. There will be a massive gulf between X1X and XSX as well.

 

[Lalaland]

There is a line of argument against the new generation that has taken as banked the performance improvements on the PC since 2013 and thus judge the next gen consoles by the standards of contemporary PCs, I submit this is wrongheaded. These devices are a massive improvement over the PS4/XB1 generation on every metric, that they are not an advancement on what a $999 PC got me in 2019 is not a compelling line of argument for the console base

 

[BoardBonobo]

Graphics and framerate is everything man. I don't know why upgrading to get better performance and graphics is suddenly no longer a valid point to upgrade. No one on PC has to upgrade either, but people love to do it. it'll be 7 years for some of these folks since their last console purchase, some of these titles like RDR2 and others can barely be enjoyed on XBO.

You're thinking they won't upgrade because there isn't exclusive games on XSX? You can't be serious in thinking someone can't see the difference between a game on XBO and the same title on XSX. There will be a massive gulf between X1X and XSX as well.

Erm, Halo says otherwise. And that's all we've seen so far :/

 

[iroboto]

Erm, Halo says otherwise. And that's all we've seen so far :/

I don't see how the two are related points. Graphical fidelity is separate from exclusivity. If using exclusivity as a point to upgrade, then graphics don't matter; barring people from playing the game due to artificial locking of the title has no merit on how good the game looks. It's just barring people from playing the game. There are likely many titles on PS5 that could be played on PS4. But they have been artificially locked out from the PS4 population to force an upgrade.

Secondly, on the topic of Halo, we've not seen the XBO and X1X versions of the game... well frankly we haven't even seen the XSX version of it either. It could be dramatically worse for all we know compared to what we already saw.

 

[RagnarokFF]

Which can be said of PS5...which was my point...

You said Xbox Series X offers nothing the Xbox One X can't do outside of load times and graphics. This statement is false on so many levels.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Graphics and framerate is everything man.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. If this was the case, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X would massively outsell their graphically-challenged siblings and this is simply not the case.

You're living in a fantasy-land detached from reality. The vast majority of console owners clearly favour price over graphics and frame rate.

#DealWithIt

 

[BoardBonobo]

I don't see how the two are related points. Graphical fidelity is separate from exclusivity. If using exclusivity as a point to upgrade, then graphics don't matter; barring people from playing the game due to artificial locking of the title has no merit on how good the game looks. It's just barring people from playing the game. There are likely many titles on PS5 that could be played on PS4. But they have been artificially locked out from the PS4 population to force an upgrade.

Secondly, on the topic of Halo, we've not seen the XBO and X1X versions of the game... well frankly we haven't even seen the XSX version of it either. It could be dramatically worse for all we know compared to what we already saw.

Well there's no point talking about exclusives if you're having a conversation about the xbox. They don't exist.

You can't be serious in thinking someone can't see the difference between a game on XBO and the same title on XSX.

They showed us Halo. Pretending it didn't happen won't make it go away. They were all excited and premiered the system selling launch day game to be met with a roomful of silence and crickets. And craig. Who has become the defaco role model for the XSX. So in this instance we haven't seen anything that couldn't be running on an XBO but have then been told this is what it's like running on an XSX. So from Sony we have a long list of exclusives, gameplay, far out tech demos, and mind bending adverts. From MS we got the craigbox. That really doesn't scream next gen in any way shape or form.

 

[iroboto]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. If this was the case, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X would massively outsell their graphically-challenged siblings and this is simply not the case.

You're living in a fantasy-land detached from reality. The vast majority of console owners clearly favour price over graphics and frame rate.

#DealWithIt

Well yea, but we're talking about a new generation here. This is not the mid-gen refresh we're talking about.
People on 2013 are now given a chance to buy into their newest generation. The expectation that they won't upgrade because they can play the same games for a year or so as XSX is reaching. If the idea is that people will keep buying XBO when the newest XSX is released, that would be an interesting reversal of consumer purchasing habits to buy a near deprecated machine.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well yea, but we're talking about a new generation here. This is not the mid-gen refresh we're talking about.

The next generation will change nothing. Consoles appeal because they pack decent performance in a small box at an appealing price - the latter being the key to sale. When given the option of X power and X+1 power, consumers have always voted with there wallets for X, i.e. the cheaper option. The only time that the more powerful console outsold the weaker was when it was cheaper, e.g. PS4 vs Xbox One. Price has absolutely dictated sales for 8 generations.

Don't expect that to change.

 

[iroboto]

The next generation will change nothing. Consoles appeal because they pack decent performance in a small box at an appealing price - the latter being the key to sale. When given the option of X power and X+1 power, consumers have always voted with there wallets for X, i.e. the cheaper option. The only time that the more powerful console outsold the weaker was when it was cheaper, e.g. PS4 vs Xbox One. Price has absolutely dictated sales for 8 generations.

Don't expect that to change.

I don't.

That part will stay the same; I don't expect people who want to stay in Xbox ecosystem, delay XSX purchasing just because they can wait it out even longer. Some people may just be fed up with how underpowered it is and there is no reasonable amount of time to expect the next generation consoles to drop in price so rapidly. If you're referring to Lockhart, I do not know yet. We only know it's weaker in terms of performance, that doesn't suddenly mean it's a cheaper product.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

If you're referring to Lockhart, I do not know yet. We only know it's weaker in terms of performance, that doesn't suddenly mean it's a cheaper product.

Thanks to lockdown, Microsoft and Sony's secrets are remaining secret to the lack of careless water cooler free talk. Lockhart is the most interesting joker card of this coming generation. We've never had as few reliable leaks in the run up to the release of new hardware. I think we can now discount the AMD leaks as being anything other than vaguely indicated of Sony's console. Likewise things like Ratchet & Clank launching in PS5's launch window - one dev studio, two console launch window games? Insane. Unheard of. And no indication before.

 

[iroboto]

Thanks to lockdown, Microsoft and Sony's secrets are remaining secret to the lack of careless water cooler free talk. Lockhart is the most interesting joker card of this coming generation. We've never had as few reliable leaks in the run up to the release of new hardware. I think we can now discount the AMD leaks as being anything other than vaguely indicated of Sony's console. Likewise things like Ratchet & Clank launching in PS5's launch window - one dev studio, two console launch window games? Insane. Unheard of. And no indication before.

I know some things I don't know if they necessarily materialize. I've known about surface duo since 2015/2016... and it fell off the map at the end of 2017. Only to be resurrected years later.
I think Lockhart could be special. Maybe. It would be incredibly dull if it's just a small box console, there is so much more potential for it in the ipad/laptop space.

 

[goonergaz]

Graphics and framerate is everything man. I don't know why upgrading to get better performance and graphics is suddenly no longer a valid point to upgrade. No one on PC has to upgrade either, but people love to do it. it'll be 7 years for some of these folks since their last console purchase, some of these titles like RDR2 and others can barely be enjoyed on XBO.

You're thinking they won't upgrade because there isn't exclusive games on XSX? You can't be serious in thinking someone can't see the difference between a game on XBO and the same title on XSX. There will be a massive gulf between X1X and XSX as well.

Lol, he’s taken my comment out of context, originally you agreed with me

You said Xbox Series X offers nothing the Xbox One X can't do outside of load times and graphics. This statement is false on so many levels.

Other than being a bit pedantic, you took my comment out of context, but the long and the short of it is someone needs a reason to buy the new consoles- they both give you better graphics, faster loading, better audio and those types of things - but the PS5 does actually have exclusives too...that’s all I was saying in my original conversation which you took one line from. And now with the 3070 I can upgrade my PC to better than 2080ti graphics for less than the XSX will cost me (because I have a half decent GPU to sell on).

 

[iroboto]

ol, he’s taken my comment out of context, originally you agreed with me

I absolutely agree that if you're just talking about having a leg up over XSX, yes, dangling exclusivity is the leg up.
But instead of just arguing for the sake of victory, let's be real, we aren't going to be enjoying that many exclusives in the first year on either console.

PS5 is going to have a couple more exclusives than XSX in the first year.
Which means the majority of year 1 will be transitional titles that will show up on PS4 and PS5. And the rest will be BC titles. So the expectation around what you'll likely be playing are transitional titles, in terms of hours played.
I don't think you can realistically give me dates on any of the titles shown at the PS5 conference. I don't think many of those are going to be ready by end of year 2021.

So the majority of getting that day 1 PS5/XSX, the reasons will largely be the same for both populations:

• Play the existing titles I like better
• Play newer titles that are coming out better
• Play some exclusives (but this is largely going to be a non factor until we have some dates)

the most prominent factor here for purchase being price and availability. The most important thing for both populations is being able to play those newer titles better. I'm really not sure how many exclusives to expect, and I don't even know what PS5 is launching with. I want to say SM:MM. But that's not exactly clear either.

We should remove the PC talk out of the equation though. If you want a console, it's a console. 40M xbox owners aren't going to suddenly start fighting me a computer store for some Ampere cards.

 

[Vega86]

Is there a chance for Lockhart to have a below midrange Ampere for the GPU?

 

[BRiT]

Yes, the chance is 0.0 %.

 

[Lalaland]

Yes, the chance is 0.0 %.

A wild exaggeration, it's nowhere near that likely

Is there a chance for Lockhart to have a below midrange Ampere for the GPU?

None, none at all. AMD is their dev partner and adding a discrete GPU from a 3rd party would make Lockhart significantly more expensive than Series X

 

[goonergaz]

I absolutely agree that if you're just talking about having a leg up over XSX, yes, dangling exclusivity is the leg up.
But instead of just arguing for the sake of victory, let's be real, we aren't going to be enjoying that many exclusives in the first year on either console.

PS5 is going to have a couple more exclusives than XSX in the first year.
Which means the majority of year 1 will be transitional titles that will show up on PS4 and PS5. And the rest will be BC titles. So the expectation around what you'll likely be playing are transitional titles, in terms of hours played.
I don't think you can realistically give me dates on any of the titles shown at the PS5 conference. I don't think many of those are going to be ready by end of year 2021.

So the majority of getting that day 1 PS5/XSX, the reasons will largely be the same for both populations:

• Play the existing titles I like better
• Play newer titles that are coming out better
• Play some exclusives (but this is largely going to be a non factor until we have some dates)

the most prominent factor here for purchase being price and availability. The most important thing for both populations is being able to play those newer titles better. I'm really not sure how many exclusives to expect, and I don't even know what PS5 is launching with. I want to say SM:MM. But that's not exactly clear either.

We should remove the PC talk out of the equation though. If you want a console, it's a console. 40M xbox owners aren't going to suddenly start fighting me a computer store for some Ampere cards.

I agree, but it brings us back to ‘how many people upgraded to X or Pro?’ - which (by all accounts) wasn’t a significant proportion.

Also, regarding exclusives, Sony are saying best launch lineup in their history...and I expect a few titles to show off the new controller features.

Regarding PC I guess that’s just my PoV in where I’m spending my money, I know a few people are in the same boat. The biggest thing to hold me to the XSX Is my digital games, even GP is not ‘full fat’ on PC so I do understand that.

 

[London Geezer]

I agree, but it brings us back to ‘how many people upgraded to X or Pro?’ - which (by all accounts) wasn’t a significant proportion.

Isn't it? I thought Pro accounted for 25-30%-ish of PS4 sales, which would definitely fall into the 'significant proportion' range. As for the X, I have no idea.

 

[goonergaz]

Isn't it? I thought Pro accounted for 25-30%-ish of PS4 sales, which would definitely fall into the 'significant proportion' range. As for the X, I have no idea.

I feel Sony and MS would want more than a 25% transition, hence the need for other reasons than performance gains.