I will count that area from retail when i get home, still have all my raw capture
Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]
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The main point for mesh shaders would be to dramatically increase geometric complexity for new projects, not to save on performance for an existing game already built with the geometry limitations of old hardware in mind. Cuz that's not gonna be a bottleneck, especially not when you're running that game on much more powerful hardware.
There'd be no real benefit for the end user, it would basically be a time consuming learning exercise for the developers.
So, this isn't a hill I'm prepared to die on or anything, but maybe I'm the target of this because I asked the question. So I think I should explain exactly what I'm saying or asking so people understand better the answer I'm looking for. There are a lot of tech youtubers that make the claim when every game doesn't load in 1-2 seconds on PS5 (or XSX) that they aren't using the new APIs. But the APIs aren't just the hardware decompression. It's doubtful to me that games shipped for PS5 or Series consoles would ship without being compiled with the newer storage APIs in use, even if they don't fully leverage the hardware compression. And not every game is going to package their game data in formats that are immediately useable for their game. The idea that because a 1st party game can have instant load times and was designed around a mechanic that swaps data in and out on the fly doesn't mean that will work with every engine or game.
"Using the new APIs" is a nebulous criteria. You can use APIs while simultaneously not use any advantageous features of those APIs. The WCCFT interview people are quoting can be taken both ways. "There's a lot of that is handled natively, or pretty much all of that is handled natively on the platform API side." I mean, if it's handled by the API then you are using the API, right?
Loading time doesn't have to be limited by IO. If they are packaging their game data in formats that need to be processed before they can be used in game, and then further compressing those assets in a format that is compatible with the hardware decompressor, you could have a situation where you are moving data from storage to RAM in 1-2 seconds, and then having to process that data into a useable state before the game loads. This would be a situations where you are fully utilizing the IO of the new platforms but still be limited in loading times based on CPU speed.
How can I think that 40 second load times can also be using direct storage and/or PS5 IO? Well, again, to be specific, I never made the claim that they were using the new IO APIs and had 40 sec load times. I simply asked if there was developer confirmation. That WCCFT interview was a nebulous answer to a question with nebulous criteria. The main question I was asking was if there was any developer insight to their use of new IO APIs and the answer is "maybe". I just hate how there is an instant accusation by the fanbase that if a game has loading screens that the developers are somehow not taking advantage of the hardware. You know, lazy devs and all that.
D
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Exactly. With the best will in the world, no developer wants to revisit tens/hundreds of thousands of individual assets for an already-shipped game. You have to be really set on reducing load times to put that effort in. The goal with Metro Exodus was to improve the visuals.
snc
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PS5 in Performance Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2026x1140. PS5 in Performance Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Xbox Series X in Performance Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2112x1188. Xbox Series X in Performance Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Native resolution pixel counts at 2560x1440 seem to be common on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Performance Mode.
PS5 in Resolution Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 3072x1728. PS5 in Resolution Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Xbox Series X in Resolution Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 3200x1800. Xbox Series X in Resolution Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Native resolution pixel counts at 3840x2160 seem to be common on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Resolution Mode.
Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 1920x1080 and the lowest resolution found being 1280x720. Xbox Series S uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 1920x1080 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
All three consoles render the UI at 3840x2160.
PS5 in Performance Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2026x1140. PS5 in Performance Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Xbox Series X in Performance Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 2112x1188. Xbox Series X in Performance Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 2560x1440 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Native resolution pixel counts at 2560x1440 seem to be common on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Performance Mode.
PS5 in Resolution Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 3072x1728. PS5 in Resolution Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Xbox Series X in Resolution Mode uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest resolution found being approximately 3200x1800. Xbox Series X in Resolution Mode uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 3840x2160 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
Native resolution pixel counts at 3840x2160 seem to be common on PS5 and Xbox Series X in Resolution Mode.
Xbox Series S uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 1920x1080 and the lowest resolution found being 1280x720. Xbox Series S uses temporal upsampling to reconstruct a 1920x1080 resolution when rendering natively below this resolution.
All three consoles render the UI at 3840x2160.
This is not them be lazy dev, this is a free upgrade. They will probably rework all I/O for the next game. They wanted to go full raytracing on current gen and PC consoles.
If you need devs to explain maybe you did not really understand how it works. Since the first day Microsoft, Mark Cerny and the guy at RAD tools game told devs needs to rework fully the I/O and how they package games to be able to exploit it. The day they will do it the loading will be as fast as first party title.
Devs need to release games and they have different priority, first 4A games is not only working on PS5 and Xbox Series when Direct Storage will release on PC, the rework of I/O system will work on every system. This is maybe the reason they didn't improve it or more probably they decided it was better to improve raytracing witthin the budget they have for this free upgrade and they better spent more time on the next game.
WCCFTech asked if they were planning to use mesh shaders in “future” titles.
Quick Notes:
* PS5 has the performance advantage in both modes and XBSX has the resolution advantage in both modes.
So, is performance king or resolution? I keep forgetting because fanboy goalposts across gaming boards keep shifting.
59.96 avg vs 59.9 literally unplayable
Quick Notes:
* PS5 has the performance advantage in both modes and XBSX has the resolution advantage in both modes.
So, is performance king or resolution? I keep forgetting because fanboy goalposts across gaming boards keep shifting.
The game is essentially the same on both platforms.
rokkerkory
Regular
Quick Notes:
* PS5 has the performance advantage in both modes and XBSX has the resolution advantage in both modes.
So, is performance king or resolution? I keep forgetting because fanboy goalposts across gaming boards keep shifting.
XSX has resolution advantage 100% of the time
snc
Veteran
I'd rather have the higher resolution versus a difference of 59.96 vs 59.9 fps avg if anything.
The question was definitely not limited to that. It was asked whether they evaluated mesh shaders for the Enhanced Edition and then added on whether or not they'd consider it for future titles.
And I think the way they answered made it pretty clear they were only talking about Metro Exodus EE, which is probably all that higherups approved them to talk about, as is usually the case.
"As far as Mesh Shaders, they're not really something we had any need to use because they essentially change the way that you run your geometry pipeline and we already have a very mature geometry pipeline. Maybe we can experiment with them, we're not ruling them out, but there weren't strictly speaking necessary for this project."
I suppose whatever you want to believe, you can read into this what you desire, but I wouldn't make much of it.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Quick Notes:
* PS5 has the performance advantage in both modes and XBSX has the resolution advantage in both modes.
So, is performance king or resolution? I keep forgetting because fanboy goalposts across gaming boards keep shifting.
Both are so negligibly better than the other that I don't imagine anyone except the people running these benches will notice. IE - I imagine anyone that plays it will have an equivalent experience.
Regards,
SB
Re-read my post. My entire point can be boiled down to 2 things.
1) Using next gen APIs does not guarantee you have no load times if IO is not the limiting factor, nor does using any API mandate use of every feature of that API (in this case the hardware decompressor, priority, etc.)
2) Every game that has loading on next gen consoles gets comments from tech websites/youtubers/etc. about how they aren't using next gen APIs with the implication, at least from my perspective, that it's because the devs are lazy. My assertion is that point 1 may be true (they could use next gen APIs and still have loading), and therefor the automatic assumption that it's "lazy devs" should be mothballed in favor of the context of the release and perhaps verification of feature in questions use.
Time will tell I suppose. The answer was pretty dismissive so I would be pleasantly surprised to see mesh shaders in their next game.
Again what is optimizing title it is the way you package it and you use the API at least on PS5 side. If you don't do it you don't use the next gen API. This is simple and this is the reason your title load slowly. This is a huge work and this is the reason first party title loads much faster than other title. All multiplatform games needs to optimize for two API, the PS5 one and Direct Storage and they need to do another version for PC until DirectStorage is available there if the title is not cross gen. And if the title is cross gen, this is more complicated.
Mark Cerny is very precise about it and another thing out of the dev defining priority, all other work is done automatically at runtime. It seems using the API the game only ask for the uncompressed version of a file and all the internal work is done for the dev(decompression, memory mapping...). The dev work is to do the API call and package the data to use the compression format of PS5 (Kraken or zlib) and to uncompress it in a usable format. For example, Fabian Giesen of RAD tools games said some games need to transform the data into RAM before being usable and for fully exploit the SSD they need to change this. This is difficult to change how the data of the game work.
I never see anyone told the dev are lazy because loading time are slow.
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