Sure, thats the point you opt to focus on. I think his points were more about the unsustainable approach that is enabled through that. Success at severe personal costs.
Crunch time at Naughty Dog.
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Sure, thats the point you opt to focus on. I think his points were more about the unsustainable approach that is enabled through that. Success at severe personal costs.
I don't know about you but saying this about my former workmate's
Not cool but then I might just have different values.
We have different definitions of severe. Who are you to tell me what to focus on?
Crunch is a known thing almost all if not all AAA devs go through it. It's not a bloody revelation is it? I'm not defending it but I don't really give a shit if middle class people in a first world country decide to work or should I say have the opportunity to work long hours has no impact on me so why should I focus on it or do you want me to cry you a river.
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Could be another ’uc4’, unfortunately
On ps4. I was thinking of the previous installments. Guess pushing people that much could result in degrading quality.
That's not really sour grapes. He's saying ND achieves what it does not through the best of the best being skilled and talented and organised, but by just working over and over. The suggestion here is a smarter, better managed team could achieve the same results with less effort.
Hospitalisation from over-work isn't serious?
He wasn't telling you what to focus on. BRiT was pointing out an alternative message that you missed, which is the message the rest of us are receiving. And that's the reason d'etre of a discussion forum, to share points of view. You can either contemplate BRiT's alternative interpretation and consider the gaming industry, Naughty Dog's reputation, life-work balance, etc., or you can choose to ignore it. Don't get shirty with him sharing it though.
Why was he hospitalized?
Just saying a person was hospitalized doesn't mean anything to me without context.
In no way should working 60hour weeks lead to hospitalisation for a normal healthy person. I have worked 70+ hour weeks for over 3 years before and it sucked but in no way did I need hospitalisation and believe me I wasn't sitting in an air conditioned office.
But once again I was talking about other aspects about his tweets that don't make sense to me. Such as Sony giving them time being the only aspect in the quality of there games, many publishers give devs time.
Anyway you spin it saying you left because you want to work with the best especially on Twitter is a dick move. Sure with family or close friends but on Twitter I find is in bad taste.
I didn't miss it. It just doesn't mean anything to me, the market will decide if it's sustainable or not. I as you might of been able to tell from previous posts don't give two shits about people complaining about crunch and the hyperbole that goes with it. So I chose not to comment on it.
I can agree in bad taste, but 'sour grapes' has a specific meaning, that you feel hard done by (such as getting sacked) and are saying things out of spite that may not even be true. If the opinion is honest, it's not very diplomatic but it isn't 'sour grapes' if it's not in response to some sense of mistreatment and desire to hit back.
Burnout, stress?
Maybe he had alot of stress on him during those hours, think it all depends hard to compare maybe.
In the long run it probably won't pay off that well if your people are getting hospitalised, keep personal happier might net better results.
GOTY 2016? Lets hope so.
You probably right but putting it on Twitter to me meant he was having a go at them but that as you say it might not of been the case.
The problem is they could finish game faster but from what Jonathan Cooper told the crunch reputation at ND is known in LA and they can't find game contractor animator and they need to hire Junior or people coming from the movie industry. They are talented but they need to learn how to do the stuff and it means you lose times because you can't retain yout top talent because the crunch culture burnt them out.
They are known for crunch, other Sony studios have a better approach like Insomniac Games or Guerrilla Games. Rockstar and CDProjekt are other known studio with craszy crunch culture.
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Why not have a go at them publicly? If he thinks they’re a bad company to work for, and he’s a person of influence in the industry, why shouldn’t he share his opinion to warn others? I’m sure there are employees that disagree with him, but that’s beside the point.
Tkumpathenurpahl
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Who are you to ask @BRiT who he is to tell you what to focus on?
Who are you to tell @Xbat not to get shirty with someone for asking them who they are for telling them what to focus on?
Tkumpathenurpahl said:
Who am I to ask who I am, and direct it at @Shifty Geezer who was getting at @Xbat and telling him not to get shirty at @BRiT for telling him what to focus on?
Personally, I like Mars Attacks.
He obviously has no love left for Naughty Dog, and his twitter thread lays it out pretty well. He's also taking a shot at the company with that pun, and sharing Jason Schrier's story, so he thinks it has credibility. For him it sounds like it is as much about the capability of the company diminishing over time than it is about the treatment of employees. Don't know when he officially left, but it was during the Last of Us 2.
D
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https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004-143/pdfs/2004-143.pdf
https://www.circadian.com/blog/item...vels.html?tmpl=component&print=1#.Vy_9HxUrJ8c
- Working more than 10 hours a day is associated with a 60 percent jump in risk of cardiovascular issues.
- 10 percent of those working 50 to 60 hours report relationship problems; the rate increases to 30 percent for those working more than 60 hours.
- Working more than 40 hours a week is associated with increased alcohol and tobacco consumption, as well as unhealthy weight gain in men and depression in women.
- Little productive work occurs after 50 hours per week.
- In companies with normal overtime, only 23 percent had absentee rates above 9 percent. In companies with high overtime, 54 percent had absentee rates above 9 percent.
- Individuals working 11 hours or more of overtime have an increased depression risk.
- Injury rates increase as work hours increase. Those who work 60 hours per week have a 23 percent higher injury hazard rate.
- In companies with an 8.7 percent overtime rate, researchers found no fatigue-related problems. When the overtime rate was 12.4 percent, however, fatigue-related problems were minor. By the time the overtime rate hit 15.4 percent, fatigue-related problems were severe.
- In manufacturing industries, a 10 percent increase in overtime yields a 2.4 percent decrease in productivity.
- In white collar jobs, productivity declines by as much as 25 percent when workers put in 60 hours or more.
- Many of the problems identified above tie to stress, which connect to hormonal balances. Specifically, stress raises cortisol, which can disrupt sleep, appetite, blood pressure, immune system function, memory/cognition, mood, and more.
Tkumpathenurpahl
Veteran
Yup. At the start of last year, I was working 12.5 hour night shifts in a care home for the elderly. 4 shifts a week was my standard. Spending 50 hours a week getting punched, scratched, and spat at by old people with dementia - just because you're trying to change their shitted up nappy - is already a bit rough. But to make it all the worse, the place was chronically understaffed, meaning there was seldom a chance to get a break during those 12.5 hours, and there was constantly begging/nagging to pick up 1 or 2 shifts a week.
Regularly working 75 hour shifts in the dead of night took a fair toll on my mind, but it took a real toll on my body, especially by virtue of making it difficult to get enough sleep. I managed to exercise and eat well, but I was still getting a bit fat.
I was living with my ex-GF at the time (fucking terrible idea,) who was constantly making my living situation untenable, meaning I had to move out and leave my dog behind. After having already being broken in body, moving out to a shitty little bedsit, without my dog, broke me in spirit too - especially as I could hear my crackhead neighbor and his scumbag friends causing trouble at all hours, meaning it was only a matter of time until they directly caused me trouble. I called in sick for 3 days and, after months of helping out with 25 hours of overtime a week, they sacked me.
My employer didn't have control over everything that happened to me, but they really put me in a weakened state. And then nearly finished me off. I didn't end up in hospital, but I came pretty close to turning myself into chunks of flying mincemeat on the train tracks.
So ends the tale of why I struggle to trust women. And why working your staff too hard is risky, when life is already chock full of vicissitudes.
Regularly working 75 hour shifts in the dead of night took a fair toll on my mind, but it took a real toll on my body, especially by virtue of making it difficult to get enough sleep. I managed to exercise and eat well, but I was still getting a bit fat.
I was living with my ex-GF at the time (fucking terrible idea,) who was constantly making my living situation untenable, meaning I had to move out and leave my dog behind. After having already being broken in body, moving out to a shitty little bedsit, without my dog, broke me in spirit too - especially as I could hear my crackhead neighbor and his scumbag friends causing trouble at all hours, meaning it was only a matter of time until they directly caused me trouble. I called in sick for 3 days and, after months of helping out with 25 hours of overtime a week, they sacked me.
My employer didn't have control over everything that happened to me, but they really put me in a weakened state. And then nearly finished me off. I didn't end up in hospital, but I came pretty close to turning myself into chunks of flying mincemeat on the train tracks.
So ends the tale of why I struggle to trust women. And why working your staff too hard is risky, when life is already chock full of vicissitudes.
Any time I’ve been subjected to anything like crunch is when management sucked and didn’t really know how to time manage projects. I know it’s not the same, but micro management and asking for pointless work is often the issue, also managers not understanding how long things take to work or that you might have other things to do in you day job.
I feel part of the problem is the high expectation on ND and in particular how their work is picked apart.
I feel part of the problem is the high expectation on ND and in particular how their work is picked apart.
When is your blues record getting released?
But seriously, getting worked to death sucks.
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