Cost of gaming on a PC vs Buying a Next Generation console

[-tkf-]

As I've pointed out in other threads.... Taking an old PC, even one that isn't gamer orientated can be upgraded quite cheaply.

I upgraded quite a few PC's on the run up to Xmas and some of them were upgraded very cheaply and even came with free games to boot.

If you already have an existing machine then you only need to change CPU, Mobo, GPU and PSU... Most run DDR3 now too so you even need to change the memory.

Heck depending on how old the machine is you won't need to touch the motherboard either.

Ok then.

Spoiler

Even if you upgrade with success you are still some way of a experience that competes with the consoles.

You got the basics right, but you still need the controller, which is not free, and unless you have a SSD in the PC there is a real chance that the PC will feel slow as well when you run your games. And then there is the Case, Cooling and Noise. I tried to find a PC case that was small enough to be acceptable among the other CE stuff we have, and provide enough power, cooling at a low noise level. Needless to say it was hard to find anything, and when i did i has a price tag to match. In my experience you need a PC that is well above the comparable Console power to get to the same "pleasure" level, in some games it's like the PC architecture eats framerates

And imho the next round of games is going to be interesting, wont we see games with textures that suddenly needs to be lower res on the PC because of the limited Ram on the graphics card, then what? The PS4 has 8GB of GDDR ram, even the most expensive Graphic cards are running short on that one.

Edit: Off topic

 

[almighty]

Doing all of this from scratch and it will be in comparison to Play Station 4 as that's the console performance leader.

All prices will be in GBP as I'm in the UK and it'll make shopping around for deals easier as I know all the web sites to go too.

First need to determine the base line cost of buying a Play Station 4, 12 months Online service and a few games.

All prices are from GAME, the biggest console and gaming retailer in the UK.

Play Station 4 bundle

Play Station 4 - £349.99
Killzone Shadow Fall - £49.99
Battlefield 4 - £49.99
12 months PSN membership - £39.99

Total - £489.86

So with the price determined it's time to start planning the PC build, my goal is to build a machine that comes very close to that price while offering the same performance but more features ( As a PC can generally do more anyway )

The few benefits that with do have is that we'll end up with more functionality and free on-line which will save some money.

All PC component prices will be from Overclockers UK, not always the cheapest around but offer the best customer service by a long shot.

PC Number 1

AMD Athlon x4 APU - £55.99
ASUS A55BM motherboard - £37.99
Geil Black Dragon 4Gb DDR3 - £31.99
EVGA 600w power supply - £49.99
1Tb HDD - £43.99
Bitfnix case - £29.99
OCUK Value Blu-Ray drive - £26.99
Deepcool after market CPU cooler - £19.99
Sapphire R7 260x - £99.95
Windows 8.1 64bit - £69.95

Total £460.93

This system will offer a wide range of extra functionality over PS4, free online is a big plus, more storage for downloadable games and it's a very quiet system.

As seen in a recent article the GPU is very close to Play Station 4's GPU but with a bit of over clocking we gain extra performance and could end up with slightly higher performance then what Play Station 4 offers.

Now this bundle is with no games, The Play Station 4 bundle offered 2, with the remaining balance you could buy Battlefield 4 but will still be down a second game.

However STEAM is where the PC really comes into it's own and you can buy a lot of games very very cheap.

Let's up the price ante a little...

PC Number 2

AMD FX6300 6 core CPU - £83.99
MSI 970A-G46 motherboard - £64.99
Geil Black Dragon 4Gb DDR3 - £31.99
EVGA 600w power supply - £49.99
1Tb HDD - £43.99
Bitfnix case - £29.99
OCUK Value Blu-Ray drive - £26.99
Deepcool after market CPU cooler - £19.99
Sapphire R7 270 with free Battlefield 4 - £137.99
Windows 8.1 64bit - £69.95

Total - £574.86

The above machine is a good chunk faster then Play Station 4 and will have no problem running all games at maximum settings at native 1080p

With this bundle we now get a free copy of Battlefield 4 included, once again we can overclock the graphics card and get some free performance from it.

An overclocked R7 270 can be brought up to an AMD 7950 performance!!

Let's go up a notch one more time..

PC Number 3

AMD FX8320 8 core CPU - £113.99
ASUS Sabertooth motherboard - £139.99
Team group 2400Mhz 8Gb DRR3 - £55.99
EVGA 600w power supply - £49.99
1Tb HDD - £43.99
Bitfnix case - £29.99
OCUK Value Blu-Ray drive - £26.99
Deepcool after market CPU cooler - £19.99
Powercolor R9 280x with Battlefield 4 - £239.99
Windows 8.1 64bit - £69.95

Total - £784.97

No comparison really, this thing will flat out destroy Play Station 4 and eat any game at 1080p for breakfast with all the eye candy on and anti-aliasing cranked up to stupid levels.

280x's overclock like monster too and can reach R9 290 performance!!

Conclusion

Now there is some things to consider, I've not factored in any control scheme for any of the above PC's or even monitors.

There's such a massive range of control options for PC that simply picking any would not suit all, also the same with a display.

As a system builder I'm getting more and more customers ask if they can have a small ( ish ) case as the machine will be plugged into there main TV.

If you plug into your existing TV then there won't be an extra expense, if you want to run on a monitor then that can cost any where from £60 to £1200 depending on what you want.

I've just moved to a £350 S-IPS panel at 2560x1440 and I have to tell you that once you see games rendered at 3.8Mega pixels 1080p just doesn't look the same any more.

The first machine was a nice little build, I could get it cheaper if I shopped around and such but this is quick thread.

Second machine is an extra £115 over the first machine but offers more CPU cores and a decent amount of extra GPU grunt!!

Third PC is good jump in price too but also a massive increase in power with a 4+Tflop GPU and the potential for 300Gb/s+ bandwidth.

But then what happens if I wait 2 years and Play Station 4 get's a price drop? That's a valid point but you have to remember is that PC moves at a much faster pace then consoles do and 2 years from now you'll be able to pick up a graphics card that offers more performance then even the 280x in the third PC configuration for less then half the money.

Online is another win for PC, nearly £40 a time for 12 months online is ridiculous if you ask me and over a 5 year period is nigh on £200!! Hopefully Sony will reduce that price along side the price of the console.

PC is not perfect and neither is this thread but PC is not as bad you think, heck even over a couple of years it might actually work out cheaper due to no online fee's and cheaper games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A couple of obvious flaws stand out to me.

1) You shop around for your PC parts, yet go to a retailer selling at RRP. One that's gone bust twice yet you call it the largest gaming retailer in the UK as if Amazon and friends don't exist. Considering GAME is worth pretty much zero given that it keeps going under, I don't think it's a rightful comparison. If you want to price based on lowest prices for PC, you should shop around for the lowest prices on console too. Of course, that'll be pretty much RRP this early into the console's life, but it'll drop after a while and games will be far cheaper (still more than PC, but cheaper). You can also buy games at sale prices on console (I got Borderlands 2 for £7 at Christmas via PSN. Can pick up games in discount bins and second hand).

2) You're ignoring all the games one gets 'for free' via that £40 a year online subscription thanks to PS+. I believe people have gotten in excess of a thousand quids worth of games over a couple of years of PS+. I'll leave it to those PS+ to argue the specifics, but your claim of VFM is poorly informed.

One should probably try to stick to hardware, for which PC costs more but offers better value and functionality. Running costs are far more complicated to pin down.

 

[almighty]

A couple of obvious flaws stand out to me.

1) You shop around for your PC parts, yet go to a retailer selling at RRP. One that's gone bust twice yet you call it the largest gaming retailer in the UK as if Amazon and friends don't exist. Considering GAME is worth pretty much zero given that it keeps going under, I don't think it's a rightful comparison. If you want to price based on lowest prices for PC, you should shop around for the lowest prices on console too. Of course, that'll be pretty much RRP this early into the console's life, but it'll drop after a while and games will be far cheaper (still more than PC, but cheaper). You can also buy games at sale prices on console (I got Borderlands 2 for £7 at Christmas via PSN. Can pick up games in discount bins and second hand).

2) You're ignoring all the games one gets 'for free' via that £40 a year online subscription thanks to PS+. I believe people have gotten in excess of a thousand quids worth of games over a couple of years of PS+. I'll leave it to those PS+ to argue the specifics, but your claim of VFM is poorly informed.

One should probably try to stick to hardware, for which PC costs more but offers better value and functionality. Running costs are far more complicated to pin down.

1. Read what I said again about using Overclockers UK, I did not shop around for the best deals on the PC parts. And unlike consoles PC parts can have massive deals on the hardware, something I imagine does not happen with console hardware, has anyone got a Play Station 4 for under the RRP as I've never seen one being sold under it. Where as the PC hardware market is so competitive there's stupid deals going on every day.

2. I didn't know about the free games, can you give me a list of what you get?

My PC is currently using 92w

Under load with a couple of AMD graphics cards the most I've seen is 556w from the wall

 

[pjbliverpool]

Even if you upgrade with success you are still some way of a experience that competes with the consoles....

you have a SSD in the PC there is a real chance that the PC will feel slow as well when you run your games.

That's a rather bizzarre statement to make considering there's no SDD in the consoles either. A HDD in a PC is going to be completely comparable in speed to a HDD in the consoles.

An SSD is most certainly not required for parity any more than a high end GPU is.

Check out the first post in this thread

Spoiler

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=64612

for a full list of all PC components you'd need to match or exceed the console experience.

And actually now that we have steam machines even that's no longer correct. The lowest end steam machines are a performance match for the consoles at only $500. Thow in a copy of Windows and a wireless keyborad and mouse and you've got yourself a very capable gaming machine for $600.

 

[-tkf-]

That's a rather bizzarre statement to make considering there's no SDD in the consoles either. A HDD in a PC is going to be completely comparable in speed to a HDD in the consoles.

An SSD is most certainly not required for parity any more than a high end GPU is.

Check out the first post in this thread * SPOILER * for a full list of all PC components you'd need to match or exceed the console experience.

And actually now that we have steam machines even that's no longer correct. The lowest end steam machines are a performance match for the consoles at only $500. Thow in a copy of Windows and a wireless keyborad and mouse and you've got yourself a very capable gaming machine for $600.

From my experience with the new consoles games load fast, from my experience with pc games, lots of games grow fat and slow and loads just like it. it has nothing to do with hardware as such, just the bloat we have to endure on the pc that we are liberated from on the consoles. Thanks to my ssds the pc is OK now.

 

[almighty]

From my experience with the new consoles games load fast, from my experience with pc games, lots of games grow fat and slow and loads just like it. it has nothing to do with hardware as such, just the bloat we have to endure on the pc that we are liberated from on the consoles. Thanks to my ssds the pc is OK now.

My PC has never loaded slow... Battlefield series is the only exception.

God knows what you had on your machine to come out with that statement.

And from I've seen if my brother PS4 the loads times on that are bad... with BF4 taking even longer then my PC does.

 

[-tkf-]

1. Read what I said again about using Overclockers UK, I did not shop around for the best deals on the PC parts. And unlike consoles PC parts can have massive deals on the hardware, something I imagine does not happen with console hardware, has anyone got a Play Station 4 for under the RRP as I've never seen one being sold under it. Where as the PC hardware market is so competitive there's stupid deals going on every day.

2. I didn't know about the free games, can you give me a list of what you get?

My PC is currently using 92w

Under load with a couple of AMD graphics cards the most I've seen is 556w from the wall

You never heard of ps+?

 

[-tkf-]

My PC has never loaded slow... Battlefield series is the only exception.

God knows what you had on your machine to come out with that statement.

And from I've seen if my brother PS4 the loads times on that are bad... with BF4 taking even longer then my PC does.

I have been playing games on the pc since the 386, of course the loading times is all over the place but I do not find pc games in general to be loading fast.

Booting and starting a game is not imho as quick as on my consoles. Just starting steam takes time oops another update.. again

 

[almighty]

You never heard of ps+?

Only when I watched the E3 reveal video.... I'm a PC gamer dude....

 

[almighty]

I have been playing games on the pc since the 386, of course the loading times is all over the place but I do not find pc games in general to be loading fast.

Booting and starting a game is not imho as quick as on my consoles. Just starting steam takes time oops another update.. again

Mine is rapid my friend..... even before I got my SSD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1. Read what I said again about using Overclockers UK, I did not shop around for the best deals on the PC parts. And unlike consoles PC parts can have massive deals on the hardware, something I imagine does not happen with console hardware, has anyone got a Play Station 4 for under the RRP as I've never seen one being sold under it.

Have you ever seen a new GPU sold under GPU within a few of months of launch? And even if you can, consoles don't work that way because price competition isn't so strong. But their price drops to levels PC never reaches (£99 for previous consoles). That's what they're built for.

I consider this discussion pretty redundant and futile. They are two different devices. PC costs more and does more, end of. Doesn't really need debating until there's a change in PCs (let's say introduction of APU PCs at £200) there's no challenge to consoles budget-pricing (if they price-drop like former consoles, not last gen), while there's no challenge from the consoles for PC's better quality. The software side is impossible to debate. One can just as easily pick up second hand games from eBay for console as get deals for PC.

2. I didn't know about the free games, can you give me a list of what you get?

How can you not know about that if you visit the console forum??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_(PAL_region)

If I'm reading that right, 125 PS3 games since June 2010 in the EU. the quality has increased in time I think. The last games included Grid 2, Borderlands 2, DMC, and Bioshock Infinite.

 

[liolio]

260x Compared to the next gen consoles at DF:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-r7-260x-vs-next-gen-console

It actually holds up better than I'd expected although it's lack of bandwidth will no doubt show up more in future titles.

Still, it does seem as though you can get a very comparable experience from a £100 GPU + £85 CPU.

Indeed it holds its own quite well especially against the xbone.
It shows that both for Sony and MSFT power consumption was a huge constrained.
Overall I'm not fond of either systems (on paper), both are too wasteful and as neither SOny or MSFT are significantly subsidizing the hardware you have indeed PC that competitive at a slight price overhead. It could be gone if one goes for a good deal as current AMD and Nvidia gpu get phased out ( when 20nm finally hits).
Truth be told whereas the start of this gen is pretty amazing as far as sales are concerned, I'm still not convinced about the success of the console in the long run. Hardcore consoles gamers have been starving for something new for a long and it shows. Though I don't think PC gaming is a treat.

The whole point is PC gaming is not really expensive, it is different: different experience, different usages, different games, etc.
SteamBox are to make thing closer as far as price is concerned, though imo you still need to buy Windows 8 or 7 and get rid of Steam OS.
There are thing that are never included when people compare PC to console: wifi is another example, I don't want to see a Ethernet cable running across my living room. Pads don't come for free either.
Another lacking is local MP, rarely implemented in PC games versions.

Really different beasts, price is not the main differentiator.

 

[pjbliverpool]

From my experience with the new consoles games load fast, from my experience with pc games, lots of games grow fat and slow and loads just like it. it has nothing to do with hardware as such, just the bloat we have to endure on the pc that we are liberated from on the consoles. Thanks to my ssds the pc is OK now.

I think you've probably just been downloading too much p0rn

Seriously though, the gradual slow down of a PC is due to it being poorly maintained and filling it with bloatware, trojans and all the other general crap that is the bane of an open platform.

A well maintained PC will never see that kind of slow down. The addition of an SSD to your system hasn't fixed the problem, it's merely made it less obvious because the SSD is so much faster to begin with. Either that or you've inadvertantly fixed the problem if youre using the SSD as Windows drive since you have effectively re-created a fresh build without all the bloatware that was previously slowing it down.

Bottom line, on a properly maintained PC, a standard hard drive will load games just as fast if not faster than the consoles.

 

[pjbliverpool]

There are thing that are never included when people compare PC to console: wifi is another example, I don't want to see a Ethernet cable running across my living room. Pads don't come for free either.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=64612

Another lacking is local MP, rarely implemented in PC games versions.

Yes I agree and it's something I'd like to see more of. Perhaps steam machines will help push this forward. I certainly enjoy a bit of same screen gaming action with the wife - we buy lot's of Lego games!

 

[function]

If you want cheap console games buy them on ebay. It's like a Steam sale every day of the year.

And game lending is huge on consoles. I can lend any 360 owner my copy of Rage. Can't say the same of my PC copy of Rage. Game lending - something the PC Gaming Master Race don't even consider anymore because their DRM overlords have rewritten the idea of ownership - is *huge* on consoles.

Console gaming is super. Fucking. Cheap. If you want it to be, A second hand console for £50 and dozens of (or more) "free" games borrowed from chums, or bought for a few quid on ebay.

Obviously, if you buy everything new from Game you gonna get burned.

I game on console and PC and buy whatever I want for either. The idea that one is inherently cheaper than the other is wrong. Very, very wrong. It all depends on what you want and how you get it.

Really pleased that my 3 year old PC has no trouble with PS4Bone games though. Hooray for PC. Cost more than a PS4Bone of course.

 

[joker454]

Console gaming is super. Fucking. Cheap. If you want it to be, A second hand console for £50 and dozens of (or more) "free" games borrowed from chums, or bought for a few quid on ebay.

The problem is no one counts the used pc market as valid for reasons still unknown to me. When pricing a console every trick in the book is used including used parts and ignoring that no backward compatibility means you need to spend on old and new consoles to play all the games available. When pricing pc it's always re-buying everything with brand new parts and at mandatory 3x European financial rape pricing. Hence why pc's always seem expensive. You can get a quad core Sandy Bridge cpu with motherboard, ram and case for $240 used on ebay. I know this for a fact because that's exactly what I sold some old parts for on eBay myself as I ebay everything once I'm done with them. $240 for a pc that can computationally last you this entire generation and only needs only a gpu of your choice to complete it. But that doesn't count because it's used, and apparently used is only factored in on the console side when it comes to pricing. Then queue the inevitable $100 for Windows comments even though you can reuse any Windows product key going back 10+ years and don't have to re-buy it at all, yet there is a fetish for throwing it all away and buying it all again new when it comes to building pc's.

Why? I have no idea. Hence why I find these types of threads pointless as they usually lead to price estimates that have me scratching my head and thinking god damn I must be lucky living in LA where computers are a fraction of the price as elsewhere and where I'm allowed to buy used pc parts. What costs me $240 here apparently is unobtainable at anywhere near that price elsewhere. And we're even allowed to reuse Windows keys here in LA on new machine installs. Go figure.

 

[zupallinere]

Taking an old PC, even one that isn't gamer orientated can be upgraded quite cheaply.

Well to be honest comparison you should put the cost of the pc upgrade and match it against a mythical ps3 to ps4 upgrade say. Just be able to replace the "motherboard" on the PS3 and it should match up to replacing the motherboard/gpu/cpu/memory on the PC upgrade. I'm still guessing you would be seeing quite a price differential.

As time goes on you have to upgrade the upgrades on a PC but that is already taken care of by the console game company.

 

[-tkf-]

I think you've probably just been downloading too much p0rn

Seriously though, the gradual slow down of a PC is due to it being poorly maintained and filling it with bloatware, trojans and all the other general crap that is the bane of an open platform.

A well maintained PC will never see that kind of slow down. The addition of an SSD to your system hasn't fixed the problem, it's merely made it less obvious because the SSD is so much faster to begin with. Either that or you've inadvertantly fixed the problem if youre using the SSD as Windows drive since you have effectively re-created a fresh build without all the bloatware that was previously slowing it down.

Bottom line, on a properly maintained PC, a standard hard drive will load games just as fast if not faster than the consoles.

A standard pc will be used, and end up having a crap load of stuff installed, origin, uplay, steam, Java, Adobe reader, Skype, mumble, blizzard updater, security essentials, and that would just be the basics.

Add to that all the non gaming stuff.

My pc is well maintained I just use it and even though I have ssds I disabled autostart on a lot of that crap.

with my consoles I don't need to maintain anything its pure gaming machines.

 

[-tkf-]

Only when I watched the E3 reveal video.... I'm a PC gamer dude....

This is the list of games that has been released to PS+ subscribers since the start, so if you were in it from the start you would have all these games.. it's the EU list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_(PAL_region)

125 PS3 games
37 Vita games
73 Minis and PSP games
4 PS4 games