Cost of gaming on a PC vs Buying a Next Generation console

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260x Compared to the next gen consoles at DF:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-r7-260x-vs-next-gen-console

It actually holds up better than I'd expected although it's lack of bandwidth will no doubt show up more in future titles.

Still, it does seem as though you can get a very comparable experience from a £100 GPU + £85 CPU.

Or for an extra £27 the R7 270 would be a much faster option, that extra £27 gets your memory bus doubled to 256bit and nets you nearly 30% extra shader units.

And you get free games too to make it even better value
 
Still, it does seem as though you can get a very comparable experience from a £100 GPU + £85 CPU.
And motherboard, and RAM, etc. I spent £600 to build my new i7 rig, which involved lots of shopping around and building it myself. Now for £xxx for a GPU, I'm in a position to get a decent gaming rig. For most PC users out there, their PC isn't in any fit state to accept a new GPU and CPU so the cost of switching to PC instead of console is still substantial, and won't drop below that minimum. When consoles are £150, you'll still need several hundred for a new PC, but it'll be faster than the consoles.
 
260x Compared to the next gen consoles at DF:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-r7-260x-vs-next-gen-console

It actually holds up better than I'd expected although it's lack of bandwidth will no doubt show up more in future titles.

Still, it does seem as though you can get a very comparable experience from a £100 GPU + £85 CPU.

While the article is interesting I don't quite have quite the same verdict.

How can you say such GPU is performing better using 2 games locked at 30fps? You can't use neither AC4 nor NFS because we will never know at which framerate those game reach on average on consoles. What was the point?

Then we have 1 CPU bound game and 1 GPU bound game.

With BF4 (CPU bound game confirmed by devs) a 2TF GPU with a hexa core CPU at 3.5GHz performs roughly the same as the PS4 GPU (1.84TF GPU and 1.6ghz hexa core CPU).

With COD (GPU bound game), a 2TF GPU doesn't not even compete at 720p with the X1 1.2TF GPU (and X1 GPU has less bandwidth than the 2TF GPU on PC).

I would conclude that, if you only wanted to compare the GPUs; the GPU on consoles could already perform almost twice better than an equivalent GPU on PC and that using the console with theorically bad drivers which will be as much updated than the drivers on PC.
 
And motherboard, and RAM, etc. I spent £600 to build my new i7 rig, which involved lots of shopping around and building it myself. Now for £xxx for a GPU, I'm in a position to get a decent gaming rig. For most PC users out there, their PC isn't in any fit state to accept a new GPU and CPU so the cost of switching to PC instead of console is still substantial, and won't drop below that minimum. When consoles are £150, you'll still need several hundred for a new PC, but it'll be faster than the consoles.

As I've pointed out in other threads.... Taking an old PC, even one that isn't gamer orientated can be upgraded quite cheaply.

I upgraded quite a few PC's on the run up to Xmas and some of them were upgraded very cheaply and even came with free games to boot.

If you already have an existing machine then you only need to change CPU, Mobo, GPU and PSU... Most run DDR3 now too so you even need to change the memory.

Heck depending on how old the machine is you won't need to touch the motherboard either.
 
And motherboard, and RAM, etc. I spent £600 to build my new i7 rig, which involved lots of shopping around and building it myself. Now for £xxx for a GPU, I'm in a position to get a decent gaming rig. For most PC users out there, their PC isn't in any fit state to accept a new GPU and CPU so the cost of switching to PC instead of console is still substantial, and won't drop below that minimum. When consoles are £150, you'll still need several hundred for a new PC, but it'll be faster than the consoles.

Sure, but they also point out that a relatively cheap processor (almost 1/3 the price of the cheapest i7) doesn't impact frame rates when using such a budget GPU. IE - you're almost always GPU bound. Pair it with a cheap motherboard (~50 USD) and you're at ~170 USD for the CPU + MB. You could likely also use a sub 100 USD CPU without impacting your gaming experience, so lets say 150 USD. You can get cheap case + PSU combos for around 50-70 USD. Not the greatest PSUs but then you aren't pushing much power either.

You don't have to spend much to be able to basically match console gaming graphics. Probably still more than a console, but not much more. Napkin maths put it at ~500-600 USD without monitor (use TV) and controllers (keyboard, mouse, and/or game pad) but including OS (Windows).

Basically a very budget gaming system which won't excel at any processor heavy duties (video encoding/photoshop/etc.).

For myself, I wasn't expecting such a budget system to be able to basically match current gen console graphics (the 260x is weaker than the GPU in the PS4, as an example). But that seems to be the conclusion from that Eurogamer article. Myself, I'd have expected needing a beefier CPU and GPU. And maybe that will be the case later in the generation. Although Mantle (for AMD GPUs) may still keep parity while using very budget hardware.

Regards,
SB
 
This is what I put into 4 of the 9 computers I built and upgraded on the run up to xmas

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I got between £50-100 back off ebay from the old components which negated some of the cost.

The 4 remaining machines were running core i5's and core i7 CPU's in which case all I had to change was the motherboard so I could overclock the CPU's. This meant I had more budget left over to chuck at a GPU.

Some people didn't mind using B-grade or second hand parts which really improved the bang per buck for there budget.

Building from scratch a gaming PC is more expensive, but it's a still a PC so any office like tasks you need to do you can still do them.

If you need to do office work and own a console then you would still need to buy a PC/Laptop cheap anyway.

Then there's the fact that PC games are a heck of a lot cheaper then console games.

I bought my brother BF4 for his PS4 for Xmas and it grieved me paying £55 for a game.
 
As I've pointed out in other threads.... Taking an old PC, even one that isn't gamer orientated can be upgraded quite cheaply.
It's a range of prices to upgrade. My point was pjliverpool's assertion that you can have the same performance for £185 is a best case scenario assuming all your other parts are compatible and upgradeable. The real price for most people will be way more. Many folk have been buying laptops instead of desktops and can't upgrade for any price. My PC owning friend who started me building my machines has switched to using a Macbook, for example. And more and more people are buying tablets and replacing their desktop computer for most tasks, meaning their 5+ year old, completely outdated machine is perfectly adequate for what they use it for. As the starting point for any upgrade, almost all of it will need to be replaced. Heck, I was taken by surprise to learn my DVD drive wouldn't work because IDE isn't supported any more (not on my mobo anyhow)! Almost nothing from my old machine (and I admit it was old because it was replaced with a laptop) could be salvaged for the new.

So when talking about the price to upgrade a PC, the starting situation needs to be factored in, which varies a lot from person to person. There's no simple "buy this GPU/CPU/APU" price, and no "for $xxx, you can get the power of a console and the versatility of a PC." If people want a single number for an upgrade price, it should be based on an average position for the computers owned by (potential) console buyers.
 
It's a range of prices to upgrade. My point was pjliverpool's assertion that you can have the same performance for £185 is a best case scenario assuming all your other parts are compatible and upgradeable. The real price for most people will be way more. Many folk have been buying laptops instead of desktops and can't upgrade for any price. My PC owning friend who started me building my machines has switched to using a Macbook, for example. And more and more people are buying tablets and replacing their desktop computer for most tasks, meaning their 5+ year old, completely outdated machine is perfectly adequate for what they use it for. As the starting point for any upgrade, almost all of it will need to be replaced. Heck, I was taken by surprise to learn my DVD drive wouldn't work because IDE isn't supported any more (not on my mobo anyhow)! Almost nothing from my old machine (and I admit it was old because it was replaced with a laptop) could be salvaged for the new.

So when talking about the price to upgrade a PC, the starting situation needs to be factored in, which varies a lot from person to person. There's no simple "buy this GPU/CPU/APU" price, and no "for $xxx, you can get the power of a console and the versatility of a PC." If people want a single number for an upgrade price, it should be based on an average position for the computers owned by (potential) console buyers.

As above... All the main guts of a PC changed to new parts for under £350
 
And what was your starting situation?

4 year old machine based on an OEM AMD AM3+ motherboard with a Phenom 2 Tripple core CPU with 4Gb DDR3.

HDD was SATA as was the DVD drive.

Took me a couple of hours to replace all the old parts with my new parts, the old parts were sold on eBay with the money being used to by a nice after market heat sink and some games off STEAM.

I modified the BIOS of the graphics cards to 1.2Ghz core speed which would give it HD 7950 performance.

CPU ended up at 4.6Ghz when overclocked.

Think it still came in under £300 for the upgrade when all the old parts were sold off.
 
As above... All the main guts of a PC changed to new parts for under £350
Right, but that changes nothing from what I'm saying. That was your result for a particular given example (which also doesn't factor in required expertise which you provided free of charge). Price for a console-comparable PC will be different for each person thinking of getting one. All the price lists in the world won't change that. The best anyone can do is accrue lots of such lists for lots of console gamers and come up with a median cost.
 
Right, but that changes nothing from what I'm saying. That was your result for a particular given example (which also doesn't factor in required expertise which you provided free of charge). Price for a console-comparable PC will be different for each person thinking of getting one. All the price lists in the world won't change that. The best anyone can do is accrue lots of such lists for lots of console gamers and come up with a median cost.

Not really... That price I made above was worst case scenario as it changed pretty much everything inside the machine.

Most newer systems only need modest changes to get them up to standard.

The upgrade price for a gaming PC faster then console would be £330 at most as long as the PC to be upgraded was bought within the last 3-4 years.

All of them will definitely need a new power supply, all of them will need a new GPU, some of them will only need a motherboard change and some of them will need a motherboard and a CPU change.

The cost doesn't change from machine to machine and from person to person.

All PC's are the same inside and all the parts I use can be split across any of them.

It just depends on if I have to change everything or only a few parts.

As long as the PC I have to upgrade has

1. DDR3 RAM
2. SATA HDD
3. SATA DVD Drive

Then it will cost £336 to fully upgrade the machine to one more capable then the consoles.

If they have parts that an be salvaged then that price goes down.
 
almighty you are talking about upgrading but form some people is more about starting "anew".
I would have to buy a new PC and spend way more than £350 and that's because my current PC is just good for working but not much more.
Cost wise PS4 to me was way more appealing than a new PC...and for other reasons as well.
 
almighty you are talking about upgrading but form some people is more about starting "anew".
I would have to buy a new PC and spend way more than £350 and that's because my current PC is just good for working but not much more.
Cost wise PS4 to me was way more appealing than a new PC...and for other reasons as well.

I never said upgrading was for everyone.... And why is current machine no good?

Does it have DDR3 and a SATA HDD? If it does it would easily take the parts I listed a few posts up.

Biggest issue for consoles for me is the price of the games, they're a god damn rip off compared to the price of the same game on PC.
 
Not really... That price I made above was worst case scenario as it changed pretty much everything inside the machine.
No it's not! What if the person hasn't got a 4 year old desktop because they have a laptop? What if the main PC of the house is 7 years old?

The upgrade price for a gaming PC faster then console would be £330 at most as long as the PC to be upgraded was bought within the last 3-4 years.
Which assumes everyone replaces their desktop PC with a new one every 3 to 4 years. Most people aren't buying new desktop PCs that frequently as evidenced by a decreasing worldwide PC market despite sales to emerging markets like India, and laptops outselling desktops.

It just depends on if I have to change everything or only a few parts.
Which is precisely my point! IF. The PCs people own range from old desktops to laptops to netbooks to not-too-old PCs to fairly modern PCs. There are many machines out there without DDR3 and SATA drives. So the cost of getting a gaming PC comparable to consoles is going to vary from person to person depending on what their PC is. It'll be somewhere from £100 for a GPU to £400+ for a completely new system without any salvageable parts. I'm an exact case in point - a console gamer who had no upgrade path other than keeping the old case. Absolutely no component I had was reusable because my desktop was too old and my laptop is not upgradeable. There are millions and millions of console gamers in the same position, who do not have an upgrade path, so you cannot claim a simple upgrade price as the worst case scenario. I repeat, to ascertain a typical PC upgrade cost for comparison with buying a console for the purpose of playing games, one will need a median average of gamer's computer situations. If more than 50% haven't got a desktop PC capable of being upgraded (they have laptops or too old computers) then the price to 'upgrade' is the full cost of a new PC. If 50% have a 3 year old desktop, then the price to upgrade will be what new GPU/CPU whatever.
 
And motherboard, and RAM, etc. I spent £600 to build my new i7 rig, which involved lots of shopping around and building it myself. Now for £xxx for a GPU, I'm in a position to get a decent gaming rig. For most PC users out there, their PC isn't in any fit state to accept a new GPU and CPU so the cost of switching to PC instead of console is still substantial, and won't drop below that minimum. When consoles are £150, you'll still need several hundred for a new PC, but it'll be faster than the consoles.

That's a given but I only mentioned those two components as they're the primary variable components in terms of both cost and performance. I did start a thread a while back to deal with all this were I defined the base cost of a console equivalent PC if you started from scratch. That thread assumed a 7870 and came in at a little over $700 so if we were to swap out that GPU for the 260x we'd end up at around $680.

I'm not claiming the initial total cost of a full brand new PC is cheaper than a console (nor is the article) but it's interesting that the two main variable components - the 2 sources of all those wild "you need a £2000 PC bla bla bla" comments - can now come in around console performance for only £185. At this point in the PS360 generation the same level of performance would have cost you at least twice as much.
 
The £2000 PC argument hasn't stood for ages. It's very clear that the new consoles aren't punching above their weight as the traditional console has, and the cost of comparable and superior PC hardware has dropped considerably. That doesn't change the real cost though, which is what the consoles are targeting. You cannot get the same gaming experience for less, still. And as the price drops, that'll remain the case. If you want to play COD8 or whatever in 2016, your choice will be a £200 or less console, a £400 or less PC (if you can't upgrade) which'll play it better but costs more, or a tablet which'll play a cut-down version of the game.

If we're going to try to put to bed the £2000 gaming PC fallacy, can we also end the "PC is cheap to upgrade" one as well, and actually be realistic in our observations and conclusions?
 
While the article is interesting I don't quite have quite the same verdict.

How can you say such GPU is performing better using 2 games locked at 30fps? You can't use neither AC4 nor NFS because we will never know at which framerate those game reach on average on consoles. What was the point?

I don't recall anyone saying the 260 performed better. I said it provides a "very comparable" experience. The same graphics, resolution and frame rate in those two games is very comparable is it not?

Then we have 1 CPU bound game and 1 GPU bound game.

With BF4 (CPU bound game confirmed by devs) a 2TF GPU with a hexa core CPU at 3.5GHz performs roughly the same as the PS4 GPU (1.84TF GPU and 1.6ghz hexa core CPU).

First of all, it's a console game so there's no such thing as CPU or GPU bound. The CPU may be whats's providing the hard limit on performance but the GPU will still be pushed to it's full potential by the simple additions of graphical effects - or even more basic; resolution. The PS4 version runs at 900p. If there were any more performance left in the GPU it would run at 1080p.

So this isn't a simple matter of ignoring the GPU and focusing on the CPU. The GPU in the PS4 is clearly be pushed to it's limits to achieve the sub 1080p resolution or it would run higher (or match the PC's high graphical effects). The 260x is matching that as demonstrated in the i7 benchmarks. The AMD CPU brings performance down meaning that at least on the PC side, with that CPU there is an element of CPU bottleneck being incurred. And yes, in that circumstance the AMD CPU seems to be performing similarly to the PS4 CPU. No doubt hobbled by the DX11 overhead. I'm sure we'd see a very different picture with Mantle since the PC CPU is obviously a lot more potent.

And just for the record, I don't see the value in claiming the 260 is a 2TF GPU while ignoring it's other specs. It's as if you're trying to show that even with more power the PC GPU can only just keep up whereas in reality, the PC GPU while (almost) 2TF actually only has 70% of the PS4's fill rate and 60% of it's memory bandwidth so getting as close as it does it a big achievement.

With COD (GPU bound game), a 2TF GPU doesn't not even compete at 720p with the X1 1.2TF GPU (and X1 GPU has less bandwidth than the 2TF GPU on PC).

Umm, this is flat out wrong. I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from but the 260 has only 38% of the X1's bandwidth when you include the eSRAM which you obviously must. So while the 260 is a much more powerful GPU than the one in the X1, it's clearly strangled by a lack of bandwidth and that could easily account for the difference in framerate - which incidentally at 720p (same res as X1) is only about 10fps.

Again, to come that close in performance with only a little over 1/3rd of the bandwidth is a great achievement.

I would conclude that, if you only wanted to compare the GPUs; the GPU on consoles could already perform almost twice better than an equivalent GPU on PC and that using the console with theorically bad drivers which will be as much updated than the drivers on PC.

And what a bizarre conclusion that would be given the available evidence.
 
The £2000 PC argument hasn't stood for ages.

Unfortunately not all forums are as well educated as B3D ;)

If we're going to try to put to bed the £2000 gaming PC fallacy, can we also end the "PC is cheap to upgrade" one as well, and actually be realistic in our observations and conclusions?

Totally agree. Upgrading on the cheap is an option - but we need to be realistic around who it's a realistic option for, and that's often a smaller group than some people realise.
 
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