CONFIRMED: PS3 to use "Nvidia-based Graphics processor&

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DaveBaumann said:
I'm not entirely convinced there is any eDRAM in there, or even much of a cache.

As far as PlayStation 3 GPU is concerned, I would think that an area in which SCE can contribute is e-DRAM.

They have the manufacturing process and the technology in general (they have worked on e-DRAM since the 250 nm generation and have made big leaps developing e-DRAM for the 90 nm, 65 nm and 45 nm generation together with Toshiba and with some help from IBM) as well as the know-how required to implement e-DRAM in high-speed designs both for portable consoles as well as home consoles.
 
He was responding to the Inquirer's claim that the NV44 has 32MB of edram and can borrow ram from the main pool across the pci express bus. The point though really was that I could see them putting 128-256MBs of ram on a card in the PS3 and also have it be able to draw on the main pool of ram across the Redword interconnects/bus.
 
I reckon the ink still isn't dry on the nvidia deal, and that Sony's engineers only recently started work on tuning their chosen next gen nv chip to their liking. I known Huang keeps talking about working on this chip for the last X months - I think he's just talking about the time his engineers have spent working on the PC part, not Sony's involvement.

In that scenario, it's hard to see how they could make any radical changes to the PC component's design, seeing as everything points to Sony aiming for a 2006 release.
 
Panajev2001a said:
DaveBaumann said:
I'm not entirely convinced there is any eDRAM in there, or even much of a cache.

As far as PlayStation 3 GPU is concerned, I would think that an area in which SCE can contribute is e-DRAM.

Sorry, I was talking about NV44 there.

However, eDRAM in a console graphics chip makes a lot of sense as the resolutions are faily fixed and within attainable reach for enough to be on a die to sustain those resolutions without killing die costs too much. I will, however, be curious to see how HDTV (not that that matters for me at the moment) affects things - I'm thinking the lower HTDV resolutions will be targetted / suggested if eDRAM is used.
 
Trawler said:
I reckon the ink still isn't dry on the nvidia deal, and that Sony's engineers only recently started work on tuning their chosen next gen nv chip to their liking. I known Huang keeps talking about working on this chip for the last X months - I think he's just talking about the time his engineers have spent working on the PC part, not Sony's involvement.

In that scenario, it's hard to see how they could make any radical changes to the PC component's design, seeing as everything points to Sony aiming for a 2006 release.

"Over the past two years NVIDIA has worked closely with Sony Computer Entertainment on their next-generation computer entertainment system. In parallel, we have been designing our next-generation GeForce GPU. ..."

This has nothing to do with pc video cards.
 
I'm thinking the lower HTDV resolutions will be targetted / suggested if eDRAM is used.

Though some Asian markets (specially China, but that's no in Sony's scope yet, I think) are HD crazy (ever seen CRTs capable of handling 1080p@60Hz ... yes with pre-scaling), I think so too that the 2005/2006 consoles will have support for 720P, but not 1080i, let alone 1080P.

720P can be fairly easily supported by most LCD TVs out there. WXGA (= at least 1280x720 pixels) displays are quite common for larger sizes (30").[/quote]
 
Tuttle said:
Trawler said:
I reckon the ink still isn't dry on the nvidia deal, and that Sony's engineers only recently started work on tuning their chosen next gen nv chip to their liking. I known Huang keeps talking about working on this chip for the last X months - I think he's just talking about the time his engineers have spent working on the PC part, not Sony's involvement.

In that scenario, it's hard to see how they could make any radical changes to the PC component's design, seeing as everything points to Sony aiming for a 2006 release.

"Over the past two years NVIDIA has worked closely with Sony Computer Entertainment on their next-generation computer entertainment system. In parallel, we have been designing our next-generation GeForce GPU. ..."

This has nothing to do with pc video cards.

That press release also said this:

"...a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating
NVIDIA’s next-generation GeForce™
and SCEI’s system solutions for next-generation computer entertainment systems..."

That press release proves nothing.

I myself will also be disappointed if this GPU simply turns out to be a GeForce 7800 Ultra with eDRAM and some power saving features, but at this point there is no evidence to prove that it will turn out to be otherwise.

*edit* Sorry Tuttle, I guess I jumped the gun a little bit :oops: .
 
Yes, especially it it is read (as propably intended)
"...a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating
NVIDIA’s next-generation GeForce™ system solutions and SCEI’s system solutions
for next-generation computer entertainment systems..."
 
rabidrabbit said:
Yes, especially it it is read (as propably intended)
"...a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating
NVIDIA’s next-generation GeForce™ system solutions and SCEI’s system solutions
for next-generation computer entertainment systems..."

Yes, I suppose if we removed "and SCEI's" from the sentence it would read:

"Both companies are jointly developing a custom graphics processing unit (GPU) incorporating NVIDIA’s next-generation GeForce™ system solutions for next-generation computer entertainment systems featuring the Cell* processor."

I can see it that way. "NVIDIA's system solutions". That gives a considerable amount of credibility to the "Media Processor" concept being bandied about. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Yes the MCP2 from Nvidia and other guesses like timing and Nvidia interest in XDR.

full translated from Watch.
- The next generation game machine which becomes PC graphic Ishiki

Jen-Hsun Huan president and CEO
"Cooperation with the SONY computer entertainment is very important announcement for us. It cannot speak details still, but the next generation PlayStation probably becomes the very powerful platform ",

President of NVIDIA and Jen-Hsun Huang of CEO (the ジェンセン fan) as for the person, December 7th (local time) is held in the conference of the same company which, NVIDIA the next generation PlayStation (PlayStation 3? ) The graphic processor (GPU) the SONY computer entertainment with development (SCEI) with cooperation was announced. With this, it became secure for technology of PC graphics to flow into also PlayStation. Xbox2 to which ATI offers GPU technology (Xenon) with, PS3 of NVIDIA. In the world of the game console, Xbox of current generation (NVIDIA) with GAMECUBE (ATI) continuously, even in the next generation, it came to the point of again red (ATI) with green (NVIDIA) being able to unfold confrontation.

By the way, also Nintendo Co. has tied ATI and cooperation with development of the next generation machine. With this, it is seen that also 3 corporations of SCEI, Microsoft and Nintendo Co., mean to use the technology of the PC GPU vendor in the next generation machine. With the big flow, technology of the graphics of PC and the game machine compared to has shown also the fact that affinity keeps becoming high. The PC game and the technology, from become easy to flow to the game machine. Especially, with technology of graphics the world of the PC game preceding, to be large, influence is large.

There is an impression of being announced abruptly, the cooperation of SCEI and NVIDIA. But, already the basic information of PS3 has appeared in game industry in the NDA base, on game industry side it seems that is already known. In addition, considered as PC industry side, to tell the truth, there were several signs.

First, the information that, around spring 2002, was brought from the PC industry authorized personnel SCEI had the GPU vendor and contact. In addition, around 2002 summer the Hisashi of SCEI 夛 the occasion where the wooden health person (SONY computer entertainment president and group CEO) with it meets well, as for the same person David B. Kirk which is Chief Scientist of NVIDIA (the デビッド ・ B ・ kirk) concerning the person "the cranium it is very and it is the person", that it suggested that it is modification and acquaintance. In addition, the development circumstance of GPU of information and PS3 that altogether is not audible, NVIDIA, in the memory XDR of PS3 DRAM has shown interest, there was the sign that the top of the engine bender of PC game type of the foreign country visits Japan.



- NVIDIA for PS3 expressing the tip/chip media processor

So, NVIDIA making what of PlayStation 3? With release the graphic processor (GPU) with it has become, but Huang of NVIDIA the media processor had classified the product for PS3.

"Media processor business is very important even in home appliance field. We, with the SONY computer entertainment and the other two partners, make PlayStation of the next generation ", (Huang)


Huang, GPU and MCP (Media & Communications Processor) and (Wireless) classifying product category of the same company, into 3 of Media Processor. The cooperation with SCEI was explained other than GoForce as 3rd Media Processor. As for GPU specialization, as for MCP specializing in the media & communication & security, it is combined with GPU in graphics. Vis-a-vis that Media Processor, when you look at the example of GoForce, takes charge of the media processing of all round with the programmable hardware not only graphics. In addition, the Hisashi of SCEI 夛 is good from the time before the wooden person the companion tip/chip which is combined with the Cell processor which is CPU of PS3 was not the graphic engine and it called the "media engine". From these speeches, the tip/chip of NVIDIA is presumed that it is the GPU + MCP, media processor. In other words, it is seen that it mounts also the processing function of non graphics such as audio and network.

In addition, the technology which NVIDIA offers is not restricted to just the hardware.

"Hisashi 夛 well the wooden person cooperating with them concerning our works, said that it is to make the splendid game console. Many elements are included to that. Graphic technology of course is most important. But, also software technology and tool development etc., have occupied the very important part. It cooperates over the wide range "(Huang)

Another NVIDIA staff "as for one of the reasons where the SONY computer entertainment chooses us in the partner, it means that we can cooperate in the software aspect. You explain that the software technology which NVIDIA accumulates was appraised ".

NVIDIA develops shading language "Cg" for the respective company, GPU offers the optimizing compiler. In addition, it develops also the performance analytical tool and the like which is superior. The PS3 tip/chip of NVIDIA is presumed that with the expectation which loads Programmable Shader not to be wrong first, the compiler and the tool etc. of the same company carry out important function. In addition, the possibility NVIDIA having taken charge concerning the middleware of the low level which sticks to GPU is high.

By the way, SCEI contacts the middle wear vendor actively from medium time 2004. SCEI is visible, at the time of PS2 converting policy, with PS3 in order to have stressed to the imagination conversion with software layer. Participation to of the economic organization Khronos Group which decides graphic API "OpenGL ES" for the installation is the one example. Khronos side, as for the purpose where SCEI joins to the same group you declare that is, in order to adopt OpenGL ES 2.0 for PS3. If the technology of NVIDIA GPU is used, from you can agree upon also the movement that, you adopt OpenGL API.

- You start the development of the PS3 media processor from 2 years ago

NVIDIA which makes SCEI and the PS3 tip/chip. Both corporations it probably cooperates just from sometime.

"We it reaching the point where it relates to this platform are 2 - 3 years. Approximately 2 years it is the place where you said. To make GPU technology, fixed time is necessary ", (Huang)

When we assume, that according to explanation Huang it is, as for SCEI and NVIDIA, also the late to the latter half 2002 means to make joint job start. Though, 2 years with the reason which advances easily are improbable.


"There was really, considerably complication. Even when midway beginning to become flame failure, doing that you were impatient ", a certain NVIDIA authorized personnel talks.

Xbox which loads XGPU and XMCP of NVIDIA appearing 2001 November. When of the lead time is thought, SCEI and NVIDIA are thought that already it had started negotiation when Xbox comes out from. As for this, you can think the possibility Xbox producing effect on SCEI.

Actually, as for the GPU industry authorized personnel who is 2002 beginning of the year spring "as for SCEI it was the schedule which originally develops the graphics of PS3 in inside. But, you have heard that Xbox appearing with that much graphic power gave impact to SCEI. Therefore, as for the graphic tip/chip of the next generation machine, you say that at the respective company not only development, it considers also the choices which use the tip/chip of the GPU vendor of PC type. Because of that, the GPU vendor and contact were begun. But, it seems that it is not decisive still it does what kind of selection, ", you said.

By the way, Microsoft ATI and as for making that technology it is cooperative clear 2003 summer in the next generation Xbox. Reverse side circumstance of this still is in the 藪, but naturally, the announcement of Microsoft after SCEI and NVIDIA begin close joint job, means to call.

NVIDIA, with Xbox it produced chip set, sold to Microsoft. So, with PS3 it probably becomes some contract? Will NVIDIA sells the tip/chip in SCEI, or the license do technology? The case of Xbox, as for NVIDIA it was not the license and it was said that sale of the tip/chip was desired. But as for Huang of NVIDIA what as for problem emphasizes in license business that it is not.

"In the concept part, as for the part which is bad to ライセンシング there is no at all. By the fact that the product is sold and the fact that the license is offered, there is no difference in at all itself selling. In order to make the product like PlayStation, we must work full time the highest engineer. Such as that that we do, it is brain business and intellectual property business. If energy is made to concentrate on development of the product, the return which it corresponds to that becomes necessary. Is just that ",

Huang this way showed the attitude that the return with license agreement or does not care with tip/chip sale. Actually, production Fab SCEI/ SONY/from the fact that it is the Toshiba affiliation, SCEI does ファウンダリ of NVIDIA with is difficult to think. The latest cooperation is presumed that the possibility of taking the license form of core technology is high.

So, the PS3 media processor of NVIDIA it probably becomes some form. This, from the speech of former NVIDIA, is estimate is possible. As for the next time, we would like to report this point.

Sony PR
Sony Group Executes Investment of 120 Billion Yen in Semiconductor Fabrication
Second Phase Investment by Sony to Establish Mass Production Line of 65 nanometer Process

TOKYO, JAPAN, February 2, 2004 - Sony Corporation (Sony) and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) (together referred to as Sony Group hereinafter) announced today that following the 73 billion yen investment made in the fiscal year 2003 (ending March 2004), they would make a second phase investment of a total of approximately 120 billion yen to establish semiconductor mass production lines to build chips with 65 nanometer process.

Sony Group positions semiconductor as one of the most important technologies that would define and add values to the products. This investment for the 65 nanometer process fabrication line will be conducted as part of the previously announced 200 billion yen semiconductor investment (over three years starting from fiscal year 2003: announced on April 21, 2003) that will contribute to the manufacturing of the new microprocessor for the broadband-era, codenamed "Cell", as well as various media processors to be used for a wide array of Sony Group's next generation digital consumer electronics (CE) products and next generation computer entertainment system

Speculate as you want, but we know only so much.
Imo, just take it as, Sony have realized and decided that a PS3 with Nvidia is a better machine than a PS3 without.
 
pahcman said:
Imo, just take it as, Sony have realized and decided that a PS3 with
Nvidia is a better machine than a PS3 without.

Stating the obvious, Why else would they parnter with them? Friendship?
 
:? how the hell was he able to bold all those supposedly interesting parts of that translation.... I couldn't understand most of it, not to mention pick out the parts that prove Sony is failing in graphics chip design.
 
It doesn't say anything interesting - just talks about the nvidia gpu/mpu being specialized hardware. Talks a little about memory bandwidth and the need to support 1920x1080.
 
ninelven said:
It doesn't say anything interesting - just talks about the nvidia gpu/mpu being specialized hardware. Talks a little about memory bandwidth and the need to support 1920x1080.


Music to my pointy ears.
 
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