CELL and XDR at 4.8 Ghz ?

[PC-Engine]

I'm talking in relative terms. There might be a shortage at launch, but when the shortage ends, the $400 price isn't going to make people buy more just because there will be many of them available. Regardless $300 + game + controller < $400 + game + controller.

although it is correct to say that out of 70M PS2 users now, "most" didn't get one at launch. It's normal. Same can be said for every console.

In other words most didn't pay $300 for it. They waited for a price drop. At $400 that trend will be even stronger.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I think $100 or even $200 difference in price here or there doesn't really matter as a console is purchased to last about 5 years.
If there are enough extra features to justify the extra price tag, I can see next gen consoles costing well over $300 at launch.

Just curious how much you'd pay for a PS3 at launch? What would you pay more/less for?

I would buy a next gen console even for €400, with the expected next gen features (WiFi, better graphics + sound etc...), I might consider paying it even without a BluRay or HD-DVD and hard disk.

I most likely will buy only one console next gen, it'll be a several years of investment for me.
Many would pay €400 for a standalone DVD player, or put the same amount of money for a cell-phone, or other home entertainmaent and gadgets. A €300 iPod is not considered too expensive, even though it's just a MP3 player.
A games console is used almost daily by me, more often than some other devices I've paid over €300 without even thinking it was way too much for that device.

Of course I'd be happier if it only costs €200, but really, an extra €200 woud not mean that much to me, even though my income is average.

 

[Panajev2001a]

if this is true then Xdr's bandwith will be 38 GB/s, memory size 384 MB for cell
nvidia gpu run at 600 MHZ and has 384 MB ram too

CELL supports up to 2/32 bit xdr channels AFAIK, adding more xdr modules it possible but it will not add bandwith. At 4.8 ghz bandwith is 30 Gbytes/s, even if I doubt PS3 memory system will be clocked so high!
GPU is a mystery, though.

See that 3.2 GHz singallin rate for XDR was not the top . I think they miht use this faster XDR for the GPU, maybe pushing it to full 6.4 GHz of data signalling rate.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm talking in relative terms. There might be a shortage at launch, but when the shortage ends, the $400 price isn't going to make people buy more just because there will be many of them available. Regardless $300 + game + controller < $400 + game + controller.

Well we've seen how Sony can be competitive when they need to be. They are selling PSP at a VERY good price, because they need to do well against the DS. With PS2, they were all alone for the first year, so they could price it the way they wanted to, and started lowering the price when they need to compete against GC and Xbox. And they could even afford to be more expensive than both competing consoles because they were selling like hotcakes, they had (still have) the biggest userbase and huge momenum.

When PS3 will come out, it will be priced very competitively because by thet time, MS will already have a userbase, and Sony know they can't scare their customers away with extortionate prices, or else they'll just get an Xbox2. The situation will be VERY different from this generation, so trying to draw comparisons is useless.

 

[PC-Engine]

I think $100 or even $200 difference in price here or there doesn't really matter as a console is purchased to last about 5 years.
If there are enough extra features to justify the extra price tag, I can see next gen consoles costing well over $300 at launch.

Just curious how much you'd pay for a PS3 at launch? What would you pay more/less for?

I would buy a next gen console even for €400, with the expected next gen features (WiFi, better graphics + sound etc...), I might consider paying it even without a BluRay or HD-DVD and hard disk.

I most likely will buy only one console next gen, it'll be a several years of investment for me.
Many would pay €400 for a standalone DVD player, or put the same amount of money for a cell-phone, or other home entertainmaent and gadgets. A €300 iPod is not considered too expensive, even though it's just a MP3 player.
A games console is used almost daily by me, more often than some other devices I've paid over €300 without even thinking it was way too much for that device.

Of course I'd be happier if it only costs €200, but really, an extra €200 woud not mean that much to me, even though my income is average.

I hear a lot of people making these kinds of comparison, but it doesn't really make sense because an iPod doesn't require spending more money for content. It's like the razor and blade scenario, except with a console you're paying a lot for the razor up front then have to pay for the blades too. Also regarding cellphones most people don't spend hundreds on them, since most phones are subsidized by the phone and carrier companies. The people who buy unlocked phones for hundreds of dollars are few and far between and among that small group, they're mostly for business use which means it's an absolute necessity.

 

[j^aws]

if this is true then Xdr's bandwith will be 38 GB/s, memory size 384 MB for cell
nvidia gpu run at 600 MHZ and has 384 MB ram too

CELL supports up to 2/32 bit xdr channels AFAIK, adding more xdr modules it possible but it will not add bandwith. At 4.8 ghz bandwith is 30 Gbytes/s, even if I doubt PS3 memory system will be clocked so high!
GPU is a mystery, though.

If they're using 4 XDR chips (512 Mbit each and 256 Mbyte in total) with 2-channels (64 bit total),

@ 3.2 GHz XDR chips ~ 25.6 Gbytes/s

@ 4.8 GHz XDR chips ~ 38.4 GBytes/s

@ 6.4 GHz XDR chips ~ 51.2 Gbytes/s

It's interesting that they say they have 6.4 GHz operational chips so there's hope for some fat bandwidth still!

 

[nAo]

Sorry..I was wrong..it's 38 Gbytes/s, not 30 Gbytes/s

 

[one]

English press release...

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr3001.htm

Toshiba's 512-megabit XDR(TM) DRAM with 6.4GHz Data Transfer Speed

30 March, 2005

Toshiba Breaks own Record for World's Fastest Memory Device

TOKYO -- Toshiba Corporation today announced a high performance DRAM that achieves the fastest data transfer rate yet attained by any memory device. The second generation 512-megabit XDRTM has a peak operating speed of 6.4GHz, and is designed for high-performance broadband applications, including digital consumer electronics, network systems and graphic systems. Samples of the new chip are currently available.

The XDRTM DRAM is based on Rambus's (Nasdaq:RMBS) XDR memory interface technology and offers an octal data rate (ODR), supporting transfers of eight data in a single clock cycle. The latest 512-megabit XDRTM DRAM (TC59YM916BKG) transfers data at 4.8GHz with a 1.8V VDD and supports peak operation of 6.4GHz, the fastest data transfer rate yet achieved: four times faster than the performance of 1.6GHz Graphic Double Data Rate (GDDR) memory chips and twelve times faster than best-in-class 533MHz PC memories.

Next-generation broadband applications require real-time processing of huge volumes of data, which can only be achieved with the support of large capacity, ultra high-speed memory chips. Toshiba meets these needs with its XDRTM DRAM. The company will continue to develop and commercialize XDRTM DRAM as a key memory device along with NAND flash memory and MCP.

"Toshiba has been playing a leadership role in realizing XDRTM DRAM technology," said Shozo Saito, Vice President of Memory Division, Semiconductor Company at Toshiba Corporation. "We were first in the world to sample first generation XDRTM DRAM in December 2003. We plan to mass-produce our second generation 512-megabit XDRTM DRAMs in the second half of 2005 to secure our leading position in this business area."

Major Specifications

Configuration: 4 megabit word x 8 banks x 16 bits (x4/x8/x16 programmable)
Power Supply: 1.8V VDD
Package Size: 1.27mm x 0.8mm pitch BGA
Interface: DRSL (Differential Rambus Signal Level)
Max. Data Rate: 4.8GHz
Min. Cycle Time: 40ns (tRC)

Note: XDR is a trademark or registered trademark in Japan and/or other counties.

 

[one]

We plan to mass-produce our second generation 512-megabit XDRTM DRAMs in the second half of 2005 to secure our leading position in this business area."

So it looks they'll use this 4.8Ghz XDR DRAM for the PS3, if the PS3 launchs at 2005 Xmas.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I hear a lot of people making these kinds of comparison, but it doesn't really make sense because an iPod doesn't require spending more money for content. It's like the razor and blade scenario, except with a console you're paying a lot for the razor up front then have to pay for the blades too. Also regarding cellphones most people don't spend hundreds on them, since most phones are subsidized by the phone and carrier companies. The people who buy unlocked phones for hundreds of dollars are few and far between and among that small group, they're mostly for business use which means it's an absolute necessity.

Uh.. since when have they started giving away commercial music free?
Sure, a music cd doesn't cost as much as a game, but one could argue a music cd has "less" content anyway.
Or did you mean pirated music?
I am aware of that razor and blade analogy, but as I said, to me a €400 one time pay for a console hardware that I'll use at least 5 years is still acceptable.
Here where I live, you can only buy those "unlocked" phones, here's no subsidizions by carrier companies. A €300 is considered about average people pay for their cell phones, and they are often replaced more often than every 5 years.

 

[London Geezer]

The fact that they have them doesn't necessarily mean that they will use them, especially on a console where costs need to be contained.

Question is, more RAM or faster RAM?

 

[nAo]

We plan to mass-produce our second generation 512-megabit XDRTM DRAMs in the second half of 2005 to secure our leading position in this business area.

If they're going to mass-produce this fast memory so soon there's only one reason, they have at least one big customer. PS3's GPU?...maybe

 

[j^aws]

We plan to mass-produce our second generation 512-megabit XDRTM DRAMs in the second half of 2005 to secure our leading position in this business area.

If they're going to mass-produce this fast memory so soon there's only one reason, they have at least one big customer. PS3's GPU?...maybe

NUMA?

no eDRAM?

 

[nAo]

Dunno..but if they're going to have 50 GB/on just on the GPU..edream is ruled out, imho.

 

[Fafalada]

Dunno..but if they're going to have 50 GB/on just on the GPU..edream is ruled out, imho.

Stop thinking so small eXDR !!!!!!!!

 

[version]

if cell run at 4.8 Ghz then EIB bus run at 2.4 Ghz
EIB bus channel(128bit)'s bandwith is 38.4 GB/s at 2.4 Ghz
xdr bandwith 38.4 GB/s too, perfect

cell - 4.8 Ghz , 340 Gflops, EIB bandwith all is 460 GB/s
xdr for cell - 4.8 Ghz ,256 MB , 38.4 GB/s
gpu - ? 600 mhz ?
xdr for gpu - 4.8 Ghz , 256 MB , 38.4 GB/s


ps3 will be a monster

 

[Druga Runda]

if this is true then Xdr's bandwith will be 38 GB/s, memory size 384 MB for cell
nvidia gpu run at 600 MHZ and has 384 MB ram too

I doubt PS3 will have 768MB of 4.8GHz XDR + 8:1 4.8GHz CELL + 600MHz GPU + Blu-ray for $300.

maybe Sony will play to be the "big loss" leader in order to get into the living room first and in the fashion that MS, Nintendo or anyone else will find hard to follow... economies of scale should help them later to recuperate the cost if they are successful which in that case they will inevitabely be...

 

[ims]

I think people are expecting a little too much from the PS3. I'm sure some are going to be in for a dissapointment.

Cheers

 

[nAo]

I think people are expecting a little too much from the PS3. I'm sure some are going to be in for a dissapointment.

You're right...however..spill the beans!

 

[nAo]

Umh..just a moment, what does that mean?:

Toshiba's 512-megabit XDR(TM) DRAM with 6.4GHz Data Transfer Speed

Max. Data Rate: 4.8GHz