Cell about to go into mass production.

jvd said:
Paul said:
The japanese want ps3, not Xbox2. This is something you fail to realize, Xbox2 can debut at 200 dollars and it still wouldn't sell as much as ps3 in japan.

Unless it has the better games ?

Depending on what you'd call better, I think better will mean more Japanese style of games in Japan, which MS has failed to lobby enough Japanese developers at the moment.

Most Japanese style of games are released on PSX/PS2/GC/GBA, but not on X-BOX, do you ever see a Pachinko game on X-BOX ? Or anything from Bandai on X-BOX ?

If MS can make that happen, X-BOX 2 may get a better position than the current failed X-BOX.
 
maskrider said:
jvd said:
Paul said:
The japanese want ps3, not Xbox2. This is something you fail to realize, Xbox2 can debut at 200 dollars and it still wouldn't sell as much as ps3 in japan.

Unless it has the better games ?

Depending on what you'd call better, I think better will mean more Japanese style of games in Japan, which MS has failed to lobby enough Japanese developers at the moment.

Most Japanese style of games are released on PSX/PS2/GC/GBA, but not on X-BOX, do you ever see a Pachinko game on X-BOX ? Or anything from Bandai on X-BOX ?

If MS can make that happen, X-BOX 2 may get a better position than the current failed X-BOX.

We will see what happens. I'm just saying this isn't like when the ps2 launched. The xbox 2 may well be out by that time and if it uses all pc parts it may have some pretty good games out of the gate compared to the ps3. Also gamecube 2 may be right around the corner. Its def going to be harder for sony this time around. How much harder is yet to be seen
 
jvd said:
maskrider said:
jvd said:
Paul said:
The japanese want ps3, not Xbox2. This is something you fail to realize, Xbox2 can debut at 200 dollars and it still wouldn't sell as much as ps3 in japan.

Unless it has the better games ?

Depending on what you'd call better, I think better will mean more Japanese style of games in Japan, which MS has failed to lobby enough Japanese developers at the moment.

Most Japanese style of games are released on PSX/PS2/GC/GBA, but not on X-BOX, do you ever see a Pachinko game on X-BOX ? Or anything from Bandai on X-BOX ?

If MS can make that happen, X-BOX 2 may get a better position than the current failed X-BOX.

We will see what happens. I'm just saying this isn't like when the ps2 launched. The xbox 2 may well be out by that time and if it uses all pc parts it may have some pretty good games out of the gate compared to the ps3. Also gamecube 2 may be right around the corner. Its def going to be harder for sony this time around. How much harder is yet to be seen

Nintendo does not need to worry that much like MS, Nintendo always has good and unique games. And GBA/GBA-SP will not be challenged with the huge library of games.

Sony has the market share, as long as the machine is cool and backward compatibility is there Sony does not need to worry that much as new and good games will not be that much at least during the first half year.

The problem is how long it can maintain the lead if MS can lobby enough developers into X-BOX 2.

For sure it is a "we will see" situation.
 
jvd... Sony already has enough fabs in Japan already capable of PlayStation 2 production, but in probable need of upgrading them they have "moved" their PlayStation 2 manufacturing to other countries ( mainly China ).

I suspect this new Oita fab will be set-up with 65 nm technology ( libraries and tools for thsi technology have been ready for ~half a year now ) and probably you will see also the upgrade of its sister fab ( which is really close by ;) ).

Toshiba and Sony designers stated in other occasions that they are quite positive they can start manufacturing 65 nm chips with their new process by March 2004 ( prediction made when they had the conference with the unveilment of this new process in December 2002... so they have been working in implementing it in fabs for a while ).

If the new Oita fabs with probably 300 mm Wafers and 65 nm technology starts manufacturing final Play:Station 3 chips by May or early June 2004 with "decent" yelds then they are well on track as it will be able to meet ( together with the other fabs used ) Japanese launch demand and the new Nagasaki plant wilkl start manufacturing by 2005 ( mid 2005 ) in order to fully supplement the efforts of the Oita fabs and the current Nagasaki plant to provide launch uints for the North American launch of PlayStation 3.

If the Visualizer is the PlayStation 3's GPU this should help as there should not be much change between lines that fab the Broadband Engine and the one that fab the Visualizer ( I am assuming they keep those names... ) there is not much work ( well, ok relatively... ) involved in changing a Broadband Engine into a Visualizer... in each PE you replace 4 APUs with a "graphics" building block ( Pixel Engine, Image Cache, CRTC, etc... ) and regulate the clock frequency and you are basically all-set ;)
 
Panajev2001a said:
jvd... Sony already has enough fabs in Japan already capable of PlayStation 2 production, but in probable need of upgrading them they have "moved" their PlayStation 2 manufacturing to other countries ( mainly China ).

I suspect this new Oita fab will be set-up with 65 nm technology ( libraries and tools for thsi technology have been ready for ~half a year now ) and probably you will see also the upgrade of its sister fab ( which is really close by ;) ).

Toshiba and Sony designers stated in other occasions that they are quite positive they can start manufacturing 65 nm chips with their new process by March 2004 ( prediction made when they had the conference with the unveilment of this new process in December 2002... so they have been working in implementing it in fabs for a while ).

If the new Oita fabs with probably 300 mm Wafers and 65 nm technology starts manufacturing final Play:Station 3 chips by May or early June 2004 with "decent" yelds then they are well on track as it will be able to meet ( together with the other fabs used ) Japanese launch demand and the new Nagasaki plant wilkl start manufacturing by 2005 ( mid 2005 ) in order to fully supplement the efforts of the Oita fabs and the current Nagasaki plant to provide launch uints for the North American launch of PlayStation 3.

If the Visualizer is the PlayStation 3's GPU this should help as there should not be much change between lines that fab the Broadband Engine and the one that fab the Visualizer ( I am assuming they keep those names... ) there is not much work ( well, ok relatively... ) involved in changing a Broadband Engine into a Visualizer... in each PE you replace 4 APUs with a "graphics" building block ( Pixel Engine, Image Cache, CRTC, etc... ) and regulate the clock frequency and you are basically all-set ;)

actually i said that thinking they might test the plant with a proven design (done by ibm, intel , amd , toshiba ) Thus the birth of a pstwo like they did with the psone. A .65nm ps2 in a small case for a 100bucks right before the ps3 comes out is a move sony would make.

Also what u said is if everything goes perfectly which we all know never happens. Hopefully they get it all ready for a 2005 launch. Just all the rumors going both ways (and facts) Its way to early to tell. Lets see what happens . I'm waiting for the athlon 64 launch tommorow though :)
 
Hehe... looking at the previews I would not wait ;)


I agree on the PSTwo using the new Oita fab to test the 65 nm process after the EE+GS combo chip is die-shrinked to 65 nm ( currently the EE+GS chip is realized using 90 nm technology )...

That should be able to be done in March/April 2004 when the fab is operative and that would be a good test for the 300 mm wafers and the 65 nm process...

Regular PlayStation 2 consoles produced in China and Taiwan and the PSTwo consoles ebing produced in Japan... I can definately see that :)

I think Sony could release PlayStation 3 in Japan by mid-late 2005 ( March or May ) and in North America during the Christmas period ( early to mid December )...
 
Panajev2001a said:
Hehe... looking at the previews I would not wait ;)


I agree on the PSTwo using the new Oita fab to test the 65 nm process after the EE+GS combo chip is die-shrinked to 65 nm ( currently the EE+GS chip is realized using 90 nm technology )...

That should be able to be done in March/April 2004 when the fab is operative and that would be a good test for the 300 mm wafers and the 65 nm process...

Regular PlayStation 2 consoles produced in China and Taiwan and the PSTwo consoles ebing produced in Japan... I can definately see that :)

I think Sony could release PlayStation 3 in Japan by mid-late 2005 ( March or May ) and in North America during the Christmas period ( early to mid December )...

See i belive 2004 would be the year we see a redesigned xbox (smaller sleeker) a redisigned ps2 (smaller sleeker like psone) and a redsigned gamecube (same as the others mabye) Then 2006 the new consoles will come out , mabye late 2005 ..
 
Geeforcer said:
How long has the fab been under construction? If they are just starting, there is absolutely no way they will have any meaningful production out of it in 2004.

Goddamned best question in this thread. They way I interpreted what I've heard is that this isn't asmuch the construction of entirely new fabs in asmuch as it's an upgrade to the existing 200mm facilities in Oita (on Toshiba's end) and Nagasaki (on SCE's). Thus, I'd consider it more of an expansion of pre-existing facilities and/or previously owned land and facilities.

Also, I thought I read on here a while ago that significant PS2 production is shifting to mainland China from SCE's plants in Nagasaki and I forget the otherplace. Thus, a retooling/expansion is possible... although I'm only like 60% sure this is true - so don't quote me. Panajev might know more, he's a vaccum cleaner with this stuff.

BTW: What are you doing in the Console Forum? ;)
 
Yes, I remember the articles... PlayStation 2 manufacturing was scheduled to be halted in Japan and moved quite in its entirety off-shore and mainly in China...


A quote from a CNET article:

Sony taps China for PS2 production

By Winston Chai
Special to CNET News.com
March 17, 2003, 9:52 AM PT

In a bid to trim costs, Sony plans to move the manufacturing of all its PlayStation 2 gaming consoles to China by 2004.

According to a Reuters report, the company has already shifted half of its console production to two Chinese facilities run by Taiwanese electronics components makers Hon Hai Precision Industry and Asutek Computer.

Nearly all of Sony's PS2 production will be moved to China in the next business year, said Sony spokesman Kenichi Fukunaga. Sony will consign manufacturing to the local factories of mainly these two existing partners, he added.

Currently, Japan accounts for about half of Sony's PlayStation 2 output. With the move, Fukunaga said that company will only make consoles in Japan if there are spikes in demand or if special editions are released.
 
scei08.jpg


Here is a picture that shows the new fab :)
 
Panajev2001a said:
I agree on the PSTwo using the new Oita fab to test the 65 nm process after the EE+GS combo chip is die-shrinked to 65 nm ( currently the EE+GS chip is realized using 90 nm technology )...

That should be able to be done in March/April 2004 when the fab is operative and that would be a good test for the 300 mm wafers and the 65 nm process...

Granted I haven't heard anything in probobly half a year, but last I heard the EE-GS wasn't suppose to scale lower than the 90nm node and that in 2004. It's [GS] currently being produced in 130nm AFAIK, but this could have changed. Also, even staying at 90nm, the diffrence in die sizes between the ~2000 launch ICs and todays EE+GS is huge, it's mind-boggling to me how Microsoft wants to compete in the long-term using 3rd party ICs. If SCE keeps this up, they're going to bend MS over so badly on their economies of scale and bottom-line profits.

Infact it would appear that SCE/Toshiba are kicking much of the industries ass in scaling the lithography down. They've definatly beasted the Tiawan based founderies.

I think Sony could release PlayStation 3 in Japan by mid-late 2005 ( March or May ) and in North America during the Christmas period ( early to mid December )...

Agreed.

Now you just crossed the line

Yeah, yeah.. fucking Italians... ohh, wait.
 
Oita's new fab will be a new building as the picture shows, but the other fab in Oita will be the same one that is up and running now and with PlayStation 2's manufacturing moved off-shore ( mainly to China ) they can upgrade that one while building the new fab...
 
Panajev2001a said:
Oita's new fab will be a new building as the picture shows, but the other fab in Oita will be the same one that is up and running now and with PlayStation 2's manufacturing moved off-shore ( mainly to China ) they can upgrade that one while building the new fab...

So they don't have any .65nm fabs up and running ? they are just starting or soon to be starting the upgrade ?
 
jvd said:
Vince man you shouldn't make fun of us italians .... I might have to take u out back and introduce u to my baseball bat

Umm... I'm guessing you don't know me or my name... nevermind. Also, use an Aluminum bat, otherwise it might break.
 
Vince said:
jvd said:
Vince man you shouldn't make fun of us italians .... I might have to take u out back and introduce u to my baseball bat

Umm... nevermind. Also, use an Aluminum bat, otherwise it might break.

How about i just use a crow bar :LOL:
 
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