Career in CGI Animation/Modelling

L

London Geezer

Legend
Supporter
Well, who'd have thought...

I have decided, i will enrol on a course at Escape Studios in London... It's a very very expensive and intensive Maya course (8 grand for 10 bloody weeks, monday to friday 7 hours a day), but 3D animation and movie post-production is what i want to do in my life and i think this will give me a nice push to pursue that career.

Anyone heard of it? What do you guys think? It does sound very good, but i'd like some opinions around here...

Also it's pretty much the only place here in London i could find, and it's full of (former?) employees and professionals in the industry (Sony, several games developers etc...)

Anyone care to voice their opinion both as insiders and what not? Insiders' opinions would be appreciated the most.
 
... Anyone...?
traurig068.gif
 
Not that I'm in the business, but I hope that you're already an "accomplished" amateur artist.

They can't teach you the artist part, all they can do is teach you how to use the tools well enough to realise your vision.

Ignoring that, however, the best thing you can get out of these courses is connections, and not the knowledge. The knowledge you can pick up on your own...but the connections are worth the cost of entry.
 
Well, i am a pretty accomplished artist on a certain level, and i'm aware of the fact that the best they can do is provide a very hands-on training and most importantly the connections, which is what i need at the moment.

I've been toying around with 3D packages for years, and much like most 3D artists, i'm self-taught. And i'm aware of the fact that most of my work will be what it will be because of the time i spent (and i will spend) messing around with the programs in my own time.
 
hupfinsgack said:
Well, first of all Good Luck!

Perhaps somebody at http://www.digitalblasphemy.com/ can help you and answer some of your questions.
Just try to contact some fora of dedicated CGI-sites...
Click to expand...


I've started lurking around CGtalk.com already.... But thanks...

What's started to worry me is that in order to prepare myself for such a move, i will need (1) a new PC and (2) spend thousands of pounds on software to use at home... And that's on top of the course fees and all that....
waffen019.gif
 
Well the thing that you need to elarn most is the techniques and not the tools. The reason for this is that there really is no standard software package used and many large production houses use their own tools. You will have to be able to use, or learn very quickly how to use, the toold of the company that you work for. Also, when doing animation (as opposed to stills) the renderer used is *infinitely* more important than the modelling and texturing tools. When choosing software you must first choose a renderer that meets your needs and then pick the software that best integrates with that renderer. Basically what I'm trying to say is that don't think "oh if I just learn to use this program I can get a job" because that really limits who you can work for, as well as the quality of work that you can do. I encourage you to take a tour and talk to the teachers, probably ask if you can sit in on part of a class one day. For the kind of money that they are asking, these things should not be a problem for them at all. What you should be looking for is whether they put an emphasis on what the tools do or why you use the tools. There are so many places out there that just teach you how to use the software- something that you can learn with a $50 book. Also, you need to develope a strong understanding of how to integrate your traditional skills into the digital pipeline. CG animators still do concept sketches and storyboarding- two things that you absolutely must be able to do if you want to be succesful.


There's one bit of bad news that I must give you... if you want to run Maya then you can pretty much count on having to get an nVidia :sick:
 
Sage said:
Well the thing that you need to elarn most is the techniques and not the tools. The reason for this is that there really is no standard software package used and many large production houses use their own tools. You will have to be able to use, or learn very quickly how to use, the toold of the company that you work for. Also, when doing animation (as opposed to stills) the renderer used is *infinitely* more important than the modelling and texturing tools. When choosing software you must first choose a renderer that meets your needs and then pick the software that best integrates with that renderer. Basically what I'm trying to say is that don't think "oh if I just learn to use this program I can get a job" because that really limits who you can work for, as well as the quality of work that you can do. I encourage you to take a tour and talk to the teachers, probably ask if you can sit in on part of a class one day. For the kind of money that they are asking, these things should not be a problem for them at all. What you should be looking for is whether they put an emphasis on what the tools do or why you use the tools. There are so many places out there that just teach you how to use the software- something that you can learn with a $50 book. Also, you need to develope a strong understanding of how to integrate your traditional skills into the digital pipeline. CG animators still do concept sketches and storyboarding- two things that you absolutely must be able to do if you want to be succesful.


There's one bit of bad news that I must give you... if you want to run Maya then you can pretty much count on having to get an nVidia :sick:
Click to expand...

Thanks Sage, and just to remind you, this is partly YOUR fault! :LOL:

Anyway, OF COURSE i'm going in to see the place, talk to people, i wanna know how many tiles are on the walls, how hot is the hot water in the toilets... Before actually dishing out the money, i will want to know everything. Most importantly their approach on the programme.

I know, a Quadro seems the best choice, although i've heard people working just fine with a radeon 9800XT (and a nice Athlon 64)... Still browsing tho, and workstation graphics cards (the Quardo's, or the ATI FireGL's) are far too expensive...

Also that rules out my wish of having a laptop. Maya on a laptop doesnt seem too appealing for some reason
 
actually, you don't really need a Quadro until you start doing production work (ie gettign paid for it). GeForces do work pretty well, just get the driver version Alias has certified for Quadro's. OR if you're good with a soldering iron then you can get a GFFX 5800 and turn it into a QuadroFX 2000. However, that requires actually taking the heatspreader off and moving a resostor on the chip packaging- very risky buisiness. But, in all honesty, a GF4 Ti will do you just fine. Also, Maya really loves AMD's and not so much Intels (performance-wise, stability-wise you're just fine either way). Now then, you *can* use a Radeon or a FireGL but be warned that you could end up with horible horribly problems that make it simply unusable. From a little poll have going at CGtalk.com it seems that people with AMD or Intel chipsets have a 50-50 chance of problems with a Radeon, and people with a Via or nVidia chipset have no problems at all. Still, I have had very few responces so far and I wouldn't really draw any definite conclusions at this point. Oh, and noone seems to even have a SiS chipset :p And as far as Maya on a laptop goes- the only thing is finding one with a good enough graphics card. I simply cannot recommend an ATi to anyone using Maya or XSI, and am leery to recommend one to a Max or other package user. That means you're stuck with a damned mobile GeForce. And, remember, make sure that the card you get is supported by the Alias certified drivers (ie NOT a 5700, 5600XT, 5950, etc).
 
london-boy said:
... Anyone...?
traurig068.gif
Click to expand...

:| ....build your portfolia, get your work out there and noticed. Oh and prepare for some pretty low pay for the first few years.


.......

and good luck man :p
 
What's your educational background, london-boy? How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

I've often contemplated making a move for the 3D modelling arena after I've finished this degree (Comp Science). I was doing Electronic & Comp Systems Eng before and that was decidedly not for me! Absolutely hated it, which caught me a little by suprise as I'd more-or-less decided I wanted to be an engineer by the age of 10, lol. This course is a lot, lot easier (perhaps because I'm starting to like it) but I've always had this niggling feeling in the back of my head that I should try and get into something that will make greater use of my strengths - art, music, english etc. In the past I've done (and enjoyed doing) a little NURBS-based modelling and a bit of audio eng so maybe I can incorporate something like that. Either that or get a moronic sys admin job and try and get lucky with a film script on the side, lol. I'm sure you've thought long and hard about financial considerations - doing something you like vs. something for top dollar (very rarely seem to be one and the same!). I would imagine that being a 3D artist isn't the most highly-paid of professions, but you do get to use some seriously nice equipment, work on great projects and frag your mates during lunchbreaks. I used to feel "relieved" that I had a good maths and science grounding to build on when a few of my fellow muso-mates decided to go to music college and spend the rest of their lives doing something they love, but for sod-all money. Now I'm not so sure. :-\

That course looks great, BTW. Nothing I'm sure you couldn't accomplish yourself with a few late nights and some probing e-mails, IMHO, but that will require a serious amount of willpower and a mountain of coffee beans. Plus, as you said, it will look respectable on a CV. I think the main thing you need to do is start building up a large and balanced portfolio of your work.

Good luck,

MuFu.
 
london-boy said:
(2) spend thousands of pounds on software to use at home... And that's on top of the course fees and all that....
Click to expand...

actually, you should check into the school and see if they offer educational versions of the software. Some schools can get you Maya 5.0 Unlimited for $300! If they can't then go to www.journeyed.com and get it from them. The only problem is that you can't use the software to produce commercial work and the license expires a certain time after you finish school. It really depends on where you think you're going after you finish the course- if you're going to go to work for a company (good luck.... youll need it) then they will, of course, provide both workstation and software. If, however, you are going to to freelance then you'll need your own computer(s) and software, In which case I might suggest you get a decent CPU and graphics card and then built a dual-cpu box for rendering only. Otherwise you'll either a) end up waiting a long time while your machine renders, or b) have to rent time from a renderfarm. Now, the problem arises with spending the money on extra CPU licenses for the rendered you're using- depending on the renderer (*crawls into a corner and cries after thinking about the cost of PRman for such a setup*) it could get very very expensive. Or, it could come at no cost (I think XSI comes with 2 cpu licenses for MRay) or very little. All are things you must consider... freelance is how most artists work and that's because getting a job at a studio is very hard. I'm not trying to discourage you because if it's what you really love then it's well worth it, just be aware of the potential costs.

oh yeah forgot to mention: if you get a QuadroFX 500 from PNY you get a free copy of Combustion 2.5. I know the FX 500 is a little slow (it's an NV34) but most people I know who have one are actually quite happy with it.



and all of these people mentioning portfolio:
while it is important, what companies want and what will sell you is your demo reel. Still images are relatively easy to get right compared to animation, if you can show you do good animation that's why people wil hire you.
and as another side note:
everyone loves animation, everyone tries to do animation, almost everyone sucks at animation. if you do *good* animation (doesnt have to be complicated- 3d stick figures are just fine as long as they have life in them) then you will have little problem getting a job. If you don't do good animation, stick to something else like modelling or texturing.


and one more thing...
get yourself a website to showcase your work. put a link to it in your sig on cgtalk.com and go get aquainted. post your WIP's in the WIP or focused critique forums, then your finished work in the appropriate finished work forum. people will notice you, they will go to your website, they will see your work, and eventually someone will hopefully offer you a job. If at any point some of your work gets frontpage'd then your career is about to really take off.
 
Thanks for all the replies!

First of all, Mufu, i'm 22 on the 19th March, i was doing my degree in Financial economics but i just couldn't force myself to study that anymore, i was only doing it for (future) financial gratification, and that just wasn't enough.
I need to do something for myself, that focuses on my creativity and lets me show it.

I've thought about this, long and hard, and i'm still not 100% convinced. Although my family will have no problem paying for both the course and the time i will be off work, it kills me to go back to asking money from them after years of total independence (they're all in Italy, i've moved to London, when i was 18 and started my own life here on my own).

I think that if someone is into something, if he loves doing it and has that feeling inside that it's what he wants to do in his life, he WILL be good at it. And not to be big-headed, but i could say i'm a pretty clever boy. And a real geek.

On the 3rd March i will be going to see people in there, and if i do decide i will go there, then it won't be untile october (i need to work until then, and i should get my bonus in september or around that period, and i NEED it...)

Sage, about the Maya Unlimited for $300. I was using Maya PLE, but the problem is that you can't get rid of the writing on the screens when saving something, which makes it useless if i need it to build my demo reel. Unless things have changed in the last 2 years that is...

Also, the institute does give licences to students for predetermined periods of time, i will also check that out when i go talk to them next week.

One thing that's a bit icky is that the course doesn't cover Fur and Cloth, which i guess i'll have to learn by myself...
 
london-boy said:
First of all, Mufu, i'm 22 on the 19th March, i was doing my degree in Financial economics but i just couldn't force myself to study that anymore, i was only doing it for (future) financial gratification, and that just wasn't enough.
Click to expand...

Cool - I'm 22 on the 6th. Contemplated dropping out of uni altogether after I flunked Eng, but decided it was probably better to at least get a reasonable degree to fall back on. At least this way I'll be able to support myself while deciding what I really want to do - and who knows, I might learn to love UML. :LOL:

I think that if someone is into something, if he loves doing it and has that feeling inside that it's what he wants to do in his life, he WILL be good at it.
Click to expand...

I totally agree - I'm almost obsessive when it comes to work I like (and music - would play all day and night, given the chance), but when it comes to uni stuff, I still don't tend to get started until the morning of the exam or the coursework deadline. :-\

MuFu.
 
MuFu said:
Cool - I'm 22 on the 6th. Contemplated dropping out of uni altogether after I flunked Eng, but decided it was probably better to at least get a reasonable degree to fall back on. At least this way I'll be able to support myself while deciding what I really want to do - and who knows, I might learn to love UML. :LOL:


I totally agree - I'm almost obsessive when it comes to work I like (and music - would play all day and night, given the chance), but when it comes to uni stuff, I still don't tend to get started until the morning of the exam or the coursework deadline. :-\

MuFu.
Click to expand...

Well, my "homework" is what i've been doing for the last 10 years anyway, i've been toying around with 3D programs since i was like 12 or something. It's something i LIKE doing. When there's a problem, i stay there until i solve it, when i need to research i run and do my research...

Anyway i'm off, going to the movies...
 
3dcgi said:
I never read the article, but a recent issue of 3D World had an article titled "Choosing 3D training courses". They sold out of back issues so they posted the article on the web. You can check it out here.
http://3dworldmag.com/stoppress/
Click to expand...

It is a very good read, indeed. Your escape studios are quite often mentioned throughout the text. I guess you'll find that helpful, london-boy.
 
Thank you very much guys!

I guess a degree will always be useful,, at least in my CV, and i will do something about that. I havent slept last night, thinking about all the ideas i have, thinking about how i will sort this out.

My brain has opened up, the creativity i kept behind closed doors for years is opened up, and it's an amazing feeling... Like when you've been holding pee for hours then u finally and painfully get to go to the loo... Same thing ;)
 
london-boy said:
Thank you very much guys!

I guess a degree will always be useful,, at least in my CV, and i will do something about that. I havent slept last night, thinking about all the ideas i have, thinking about how i will sort this out.

My brain has opened up, the creativity i kept behind closed doors for years is opened up, and it's an amazing feeling... Like when you've been holding pee for hours then u finally and painfully get to go to the loo... Same thing ;)
Click to expand...

I am glad that at least one person has found his purpose in life. ;) As I've said numerous times before:
"Love what you do, do what you love" (<----- that is also applicable to people ;) )
 
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