Can Nintendo's iQue based GB64 outrun PSP???

[DeadmeatGA]

...

i don't think that was the way it was intended... unless i missed something, i got the impression that
One will play 10year old console ports -> N64
and the other 5year old. -> PS2

No, PSP has nothing to do with PSX2 architecture. It is an enhancement/modification made to the original PSX1 architecture.

Hence
the 10-year old console -> PSP
The 8-year old console -> GB64

 

[Fafalada]

DM,
I only mentioned the ram thing as an interesting piece of trivia. We all know there are technical issues with it but that's completely besides the point at this time.

Just remember that PSX1 predates N64....

PSP will be the portbox for DC/XBox/PS2/GC games.
Hypothetical GB64 would most likely be the portbox for N64/PSOne games.

Pana,
again the issue is original games vs ports. More memory is always better then memory saving features if you're making the latter.

 

[marconelly!]

But he doesn't. He downloads ROMs and play them on his Pocket PC.

I have one GBA game on my PPC that I like to play, and it's an old Amiga classic 'Wings', that I never even saw being sold in stores. As I've mentioned, most of the games that I have emulated are from old consoles and arcades, like C64, SNES and Genesis. GBA emulation is more of a curiosity for me, not only because there aren't too many games that I like, but also because it doesn't run that great to begin with. If you are going to think less of me for that, so be it, but I have yet to meet a single human being who owns all the intelectual property that he/she keeps on CDs and hard drives, be it music, movies, games, copyrighted porn or whatever.

 

[London Geezer]

Re: ...

i don't think that was the way it was intended... unless i missed something, i got the impression that
One will play 10year old console ports -> N64
and the other 5year old. -> PS2

No, PSP has nothing to do with PSX2 architecture. It is an enhancement/modification made to the original PSX1 architecture.

Hence
the 10-year old console -> PSP
The 8-year old console -> GB64

silly me... and i thought PSP was in the middle, but much closer to PS2 than PS1... oh well, i wasnt gonna buy it anyway so there...

 

[StefanS]

Re: ...

i don't think that was the way it was intended... unless i missed something, i got the impression that
One will play 10year old console ports -> N64
and the other 5year old. -> PS2

No, PSP has nothing to do with PSX2 architecture. It is an enhancement/modification made to the original PSX1 architecture.

Hence
the 10-year old console -> PSP
The 8-year old console -> GB64

If I remember correctly Sony claimed, that PSP would do PS2 gfx on a smaller screen.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Re: ...

One will play 10year old console ports -> PSP
and the other 5year old. -> GB64

Just remember that PSX1 predates N64....

I think PSX1 is a 2003-2004 product

 

[Panajev2001a]

DM,
I only mentioned the ram thing as an interesting piece of trivia. We all know there are technical issues with it but that's completely besides the point at this time.

Just remember that PSX1 predates N64....

PSP will be the portbox for DC/XBox/PS2/GC games.
Hypothetical GB64 would most likely be the portbox for N64/PSOne games.

Pana,
again the issue is original games vs ports. More memory is always better then memory saving features if you're making the latter.

You are right... I was thinking at new games

No, PSP has nothing to do with PSX2 architecture. It is an enhancement/modification made to the original PSX1 architecture.

I can see PlayStation 2 as an enhancement to PSOne.

Upgraded the GTE, addend a second similar unit ( not in a COP pipe ), upgraded the MDEC to MPEG2, upgraded the GPU, upgraded the RISC core, upgraded the SPU and the I/O chip.

I think develeopment tools, libraries ( high or low level ) and such should not be considered part of the architecture.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

PSP will be the portbox for DC/XBox/PS2/GC games.
Hypothetical GB64 would most likely be the portbox for N64/PSOne games.

If you are talking about downgraded porting, sure. Then again, GBA can handle "ports" of multi-platform titles if you know what I mean.

The fact is that PSP in its current form has far less memory than any of the 4th-gen consoles you mentioned above, so an exact port is not possible. The best it can do is the upgraded ports from the machines that had less memory, like PSX1(3.5 MB), N64(4~8 MB), and Saturn(4 MB).

 

[Panajev2001a]

Depending how much you rework some assets Dreamcast ports do not rappresent the biggest obstacle: it is not like the DC has 128 MB of main RAM.

 

[Brimstone]

I think so, because the price/performance ratio of iQue is just right.

1. Nintendo could launch an iQue based GB64 for only $99 without losing money, while SCEI is expected to lose a shirt even at $199.

2. Most developers are already familiar with N64 development, while PSP is an entirely new machine.

3. Nintendo could have the entire library of N64 titles available at launch, while the PSP launch titles will be scarce.

This upcoming GB64 vs PSP battle maybe one of which the better value outperforms the technically superior.

Very intresting speculation.

I guess if Nintendo needed some good engineers to tweak the N64 hardware, they could have the ATI West Coast team help them out. Most of the ART-X team are the former designers of the N64 hardware correct?

Nintendo could be patient and wait until 2005 for a .65 nm process from NEC and get an ARM CPU with a PVR GPU.

 

[marconelly!]

I think PSP could easily do ports of *some* PS2 and DC games with minimal loss in visual quality. You have to consider that the small screen size and 2x smaller resolution allows for much lower resolution textures to achieve the same looking picture.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

I can see PlayStation 2 as an enhancement to PSOne.

From a programmer's perspective the PSX2 is very very different from PSX1 and very much like to Saturn.(I know a lot of you are offended by my remark that the Saturn is the father of PSX2, but it is true, both are based the same processing philosophgy of "Don't do it here, dump it to some programmable device file and let it handle the processing" systems design.) PSP on the other hand closely follows the design philosophy of PSX1 and you may have noticed that I have not criticized it much, except for the lack of memoy and price.

Upgraded the GTE, addend a second similar unit, upgraded the MDEC to MPEG2, upgraded the GPU, upgraded the SPU and the I/O chip.

But fundamentally different from the programming perspective.

I think develeopment tools, libraries ( high or low level ) and such should not be considered part of the architecture.

Actually the OS and interface library defines up the real systems architecture, the hardware is merely present to execute the systems software. This was the reason MS was able to make the CPU switch because to MS the NT kernel/win32/DX was the real Xbox platform, while the Pentium3 and nV25 were merely devices to run the platform.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

..

Depending how much you rework some assets Dreamcast ports do not rappresent the biggest obstacle: it is not like the DC has 128 MB of main RAM.

PSP = 12 MB
DC = 26 MB

Clearly, even DC titles are beyond the reach of PSP hardware. On the other hand, 3.5 MB PSX1 and 8 MB N64 titles will indeed port to PSP without the loss of quality, presuming developers actually put up some work.

 

[Fafalada]

Then again, GBA can handle "ports" of multi-platform titles if you know what I mean.

Oh please DM, you can do better then 1st grader's semanthics games.

The fact is that PSP in its current form has far less memory than any of the 4th-gen consoles you mentioned above, so an exact port is not possible.

More semanthics? I can play that too - short of running emulation of the original machine there's no such thing as exact ports.

Anyway what I said stands - you'll be seeing lots of porting of current games(mainly PS2), and I wouldn't be surprised to even just see sharing codebases with scaled back content from the likes of EA for multiplatform releases.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Re: ..

Depending how much you rework some assets Dreamcast ports do not rappresent the biggest obstacle: it is not like the DC has 128 MB of main RAM.

PSP = 12 MB
DC = 26 MB

Clearly, even DC titles are beyond the reach of PSP hardware. On the other hand, 3.5 MB PSX1 and 8 MB N64 titles will indeed port to PSP without the loss of quality, presuming developers actually put up some work.

I see you are factoring in all VRAM, but are you taking away the space you need by humongous double buffered display lists ?

That is a penalty a TBDF has to incur which an IMR like the PSP's GPU does not.

 

[Paul]

you may have noticed that I have not criticized it much, except for the lack of memoy and price.

So you know the price of PSP?

Please go in depth......

Lack of memory...

Your forgetting about the smaller screen size, the optimizations to the hardware to save memory space....

Oh yea and IT'S A HANDHELD

 

[Fox5]

Wouldn't nintendo get more bang for their buck with more recent hardware than something n64 based? They could get a cheap ATi chip(maybe like the original radeon or a current chip downgraded), and pick probably just about any cpu still in production, and probably come out with a much better cost/performance or feature ratio than they would with updated n64 hardware. Though maybe nintendo will go for a n64 based handheld, but sell it for $50, and make it basically essential to their next console and just use it as the controller.

 

[London Geezer]

Don't know about u, but whether it's 5 year old or 10 year old, Sony or Nintendo, Sega or MS, i'm bloody fed up with ports of games i've played to death when i was like 10.....

Personally, i will only get a PSP if it offers a lot of other features, and even then i'll be hard pushed to splash out whatever Sony wants... This is valid for any next gen handheld.

I'm sorry, but if all they can offer is ports of (BEST CASE SCNARIO) 5 year old games, then gaming (FOR ME) would not be the main thing about them. MP3/Video/Whatever else will.

But that's just me...

 

[marconelly!]

No, PSP has nothing to do with PSX2 architecture. It is an enhancement/modification made to the original PSX1 architecture.

Hence
the 10-year old console -> PSP
The 8-year old console -> GB64

So is Xbox a 30 year old console then? (extension of X86 CPU + a separate videochip)

Deadmeat, would you go a bit back in this thread and try to answer my hypothetical question, or at least tell me why do you not want to answer it.

 

[Fafalada]

Personally, i will only get a PSP if it offers a lot of other features, and even then i'll be hard pushed to splash out whatever Sony wants... This is valid for any next gen handheld.

Ah just admit it, when Pillent Hill and PICO are released you'll be all over it, not to mention GT-P

But you're right, the whole portbox thing is a little concerning at the moment. Although it's also true that while GBA has loads of oldie ports too, in the end there's still plenty of original content too, and I never felt sorry for buying one myself.