CA grid...

[Silent_Buddha]

What a disaster...

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article265350931.html

And that's considering that my state is exporting even more electricity to CA than we usually do in the summer. And CA wants to move to all electric cars? And they can't even be energy independent (electricity generation) as is? And their grid is failing even with extensive energy imports from surrounding states?

CA has got to have the worst electricity grid in the US. I'm so glad I don't live there anymore, although it's a shame since the weather is so nice in some parts of CA.

Just a meaningless rant since I used to live there and used to really like the state.

Regards,
SB

 

[Davros]

CA seems ideal for solar if every roof in the state was covered in panels I dont think they would have a problem

 

[Silent_Buddha]

CA seems ideal for solar if every roof in the state was covered in panels I dont think they would have a problem

The problem is that CA makes it extremely difficult for anyone to install solar panels on their roof. A friend of mine has been trying to get all the paperwork, environmental impact studies, regulatory approvals, etc. needed to install solar panels on his home for the past 4 years (almost 5 years).

It's absolutely ridiculous there.

Last I checked, the CA government was also planning to increases taxes on Solar Panel users so that the yearly cost would end up closer to what they would pay if they were using electricity from the grid. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Solar panels also have an unfortunate side effect that if there is too much sunlight, then the panels can overheat. If they overheat then their efficiency drops dramatically. Thus if there's too much sun and the ambient temperature is high, you'll need water to cool the panels to keep them operating with enough efficiency to power what you would expect them too. Water being yet another issue for CA currently.

It's one of the reasons that Texas leaned heavily on Wind Power generation (most wind power turbines in the US). Unfortunately that has the side effect of not providing enough electricity if there's not enough wind. Something that hit them pretty hard a couple months ago.

Regards,
SB

 

[digitalwanderer]

I don't know if energy or water is worse out there right now, but either way my sympathies go out to 'em either way. It's only 74F here today and I live 30 minutes from Lake Michigan so fresh water is plentiful and cheap.

 

[orangpelupa]

I was considering to install solar panels too.

The opposite problem here in Indonesia. Sure there are lots of regulations and tax that need to be navigated, but people can pay "agencies" to basically bribe everyone and be done with it.

Unfortunately the panel cost is still exorbitant

 

[Laurent06]

Solar panels also have an unfortunate side effect that if there is too much sunlight, then the panels can overheat. If they overheat then their efficiency drops dramatically. Thus if there's too much sun and the ambient temperature is high, you'll need water to cool the panels to keep them operating with enough efficiency to power what you would expect them too. Water being yet another issue for CA currently.

I'm a complete newbie, but there are solar farms in the desert. For instance in the Mojave; I see no mention of water cooling. Are these a different kind of solar panels? If so, are they too expensive for home use?

 

[orangpelupa]

maybe the cooling loop is already part of the solar panel design?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm a complete newbie, but there are solar farms in the desert. For instance in the Mojave; I see no mention of water cooling. Are these a different kind of solar panels? If so, are they too expensive for home use?

They've likely already calculated that into expected electricity output of that location and chosen panels that can potentially withstand higher temperatures with a lower efficiency than other panels that can't. Basically the remote location (less environmental impact which is incredibly important when try to get anything done in CA) combined with uninterrupted sunshine likely offsets to some degree any potential lower efficiency output. That is then used to calculate the expected contribution from that solar farm to the CA grid.

The problem arises when there are sustained temperatures that are higher than were predicated at the time of installation which then throws off the expected electricity output of the solar farm. If you look you can see some of the prolems that solar installations in Europe are having to deal with due to a combination of factors. Higher than normal temperatures combined with increased demand for electrical power generation from solar farms due to the war in Ukraine.

That last bit is important as one of the mitigating factors with higher temperatures is to temporarily take panels out of the loop in order to allow them to cool down if they start to get too hot, if not done periodically at high temperatures the panels themselves could be permanently damaged. Unfortunately due to the war in Ukraine and potential energy shortages in some countries in Europe, solar farms have had to keep solar panels operating despite them getting into the danger zone WRT temperature.

I'm no expert on this. I was just prompted to do some reading about it when I read some articles about the challenges solar farms in Europe were experiencing due to the high temperatures combined with the effects of the war in Ukraine.

Another interesting factor that I'd never considered was that solar panels need to be regularly washed as any dust, dirt, or debris on the panels result in lower efficiency.

Regards,
SB

 

[Davros]

The answer is Solar Roadways

 

[Sxotty]

Electric cars are not going to be a problem. Cars spend the majority of their time parked. They can charge at night when demand is low and be used to stabilize the grid in the day. It is incredibly easy to integrate loads of electric vehicles with a modicum of sense. Last I looked it would be easy to replace half the vehicles with electrics with no changes except to charge them at night. By the time more than half of all (not new) vehicles are electric things will have changed anyway. The utilities that make a fuss about electric vehicles just want an excuse for government funding.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Electric cars are not going to be a problem. Cars spend the majority of their time parked. They can charge at night when demand is low and be used to stabilize the grid in the day. It is incredibly easy to integrate loads of electric vehicles with a modicum of sense. Last I looked it would be easy to replace half the vehicles with electrics with no changes except to charge them at night. By the time more than half of all (not new) vehicles are electric things will have changed anyway. The utilities that make a fuss about electric vehicles just want an excuse for government funding.

Might almost sort of work in theory except that the electric cars are more likely to be driven in the daytime which means you don't want to drain too much of their power. Additionally it's a bit problematic for CA since they're more invested in solar power than wind power. So there's far less electricity generation at night from non-fossil fuel power plants (they only have one remaining nuclear plant which is nearing EOL). You could charge the EVs from stored electrical power in battery farms, but then you're just incurring transmission losses in moving the power from one battery to another if the plan is to then use that to bolster daytime power use ... which is what the solar farms are for anyway.

Makes a lot more sense for Texas since they went the opposite direction and invested heavily in wind versus solar.

Granted, there's a little bit of leeway WRT to time for CA for come up with a solution, but considering their solution to reducing in state CO2 generated from generating electricity was to instead import electricity to CA from other surrounding states (yay for my electricity bill 2 states away soaring the past few years because of stupid arsed CA politicians) and thus having other states bear the brunt of CO2 generation to provide CA for electricity that they can't generate for themselves ... I have little reason to believe that CA will somehow become more energy self sufficient by introducing more load onto their grid.

Regards,
SB

 

[Sxotty]

Peak solar production doesn't line up with peak consumption. So there is still the ability to make it work. Also cars are parked more than 80% of the time. So there would be enough available. The storage capacity of a fleet of electric vehicles would dwarf our current storage capacity and would allow for short term variation in renewable power to be smoothed simply by varying charging rate. Right now some of the wind and solar is curtailed or wasted. That could be reduced if you had perfectly flexible demand which charging batteries pretty much is.

 

[dobwal]

CA seems ideal for solar if every roof in the state was covered in panels I dont think they would have a problem

Except no knows what to do when those panels reach EOL. The panels are 80% recyclable but only worth $4-$6 in materials so the majority are ending up in California landfills which may be a major problem in the future. Solar waste isn’t exactly eco friendly.

 

[WhiningKhan]

Except no knows what to do when those panels reach EOL. The panels are 80% recyclable but only worth $4-$6 in materials so the majority are ending up in California landfills which may be a major problem in the future. Solar waste isn’t exactly eco friendly.

And if you compare that recycling value and volume to the countless tons of consumer electronics waste...?

 

[dobwal]

And if you compare that recycling value and volume to the countless tons of consumer electronics waste...?

So go to bad to worse? Point being if we are trying to better stewards of the earth, we should put a little more thought into how we reduce our impact not inadvertently shift it around.

Like we are full steam ahead with EVs and the production of lithium batteries to power them but we have literally zero commercial level lithium recycling plants.

A lack of forethought is what got us here in the first place. We tend to have tunnel vision and concentrate on the benefits and only realize and start to focus on the negatives once they become problematic.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Except no knows what to do when those panels reach EOL. The panels are 80% recyclable but only worth $4-$6 in materials so the majority are ending up in California landfills which may be a major problem in the future. Solar waste isn’t exactly eco friendly.

What's even worse is that a lot of CA recycling centers have gone out of business because the state wasn't willing to help with costs associated with recycling unprofitable materials. That's contributed heavily to panels being dumped into general waste disposal rather than getting properly recycled.

California went big on rooftop solar. Now that's a problem for landfills

California, a national leader in the solar market, has no plan for safely recycling more than 1 million photovoltaic panels that will soon need to be discarded.

www.latimes.com

Some communities have resorted to shipping the panels to Nevada in an attempt to avoid throwing them into landfills.

CA, the state that loves to pass laws and ordinances to make itself feel good politically, but lacks the fiscal or governmental discipline to actually build and maintain the costly infrastructure to support those laws and ordinances.

Regards,
SB