Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[XpiderMX]

Is this on the topic?

Is there a big increase in the staffing here? I think Phil [Spencer] mentioned that there are more games in the works than ever before — 15 big games coming and eight completely new ones. That sounds like a pretty big investment. I don’t know if it’s caused the organization to get bigger or if there were comparisons to 10 years ago.

Harrison: I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head, but I know that IEB has grown every year for the last few years. We’ve made a substantial investment in our hardware team and a substantial investment in our platform teams to allow the innovations that you saw today. From a studios perspective, we are investing, I believe, a billion dollars for content development just for games, which is more than we’ve ever spent in our history. We’re starting new studios. We’ve started studios in London [and] in Los Angeles. We’re growing our organization. This is a fantastic opportunity. It takes a lot of people.

It looks like gaming is not in a second place.

 

[AzBat]

Interesting views are coming in about MS' entertainment plays. The media and forumites really seem to be focusing cable being outdated and cord-cutting. What boggles my mind is that these folks inability to project the inherent capabilities of the Xbone forward to alternative media sources. Sure they are focusing on the current dominant paradigm. however, I fail to see how that limits them going forward when the same infrastructure can be applied to any future entertainment delivery systems/

Exactly. In the US alone, the top 10 largest cable TV providers make up almost 60,000,000 subscribers. The 2 satellite TV providers have almost 34,000,000 subscribers. That's an awful big pot of potential customers to go after. If they can get those subscribers use their existing boxes with the Xbox One, then they can sell them on all the other IPTV/TV apps. That could lead them to cut the cord & just use the Xbox One as their only device.

Tommy McClain

P.S. I got almost all of the subscriber numbers from Wikipedia.

 

[warb]

It looks like MS went for 8GB of RAM much earlier than Sony to incorporate their extra features, and the GPU took a hit to be sure of getting there. If GDDR5 had been a possibility earlier on they'd have likely gone for that, with more CUs in place of embedded SRAM. I don't think they were quite trying to sell you a fridge Nesh, as much as produce the best system they could with 8GB of RAM.

It doesn't look like they're skimping on games yet.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And thats the difference. MS's conference was aimed at general consumers while Sony's was aimed at gamers. Given MS's overall vision and timing, this makes complete sense. SONY's conference wasn't 3 weeks away from e3.

Absolutely, and that's how I see it. There's zero sense in arranging a reveal event to talk about everything you're going to talk about at the E3 event where the gamers will be looking. Save the games for the gamer's event, and use the press event to inform the world of the non-gaming side. E3 will be where we really learn what both these machines are about, filling in the other half of the story (opposite halves for each console).

It looks like gaming is not in a second place.

With such an investment, there must be content to see at E3.

 

[AlphaWolf]

With such an investment, there must be content to see at E3.

They have 15 exclusives coming in the first 12 months. We've seen glimpses of only 2. So yes I expect we'll see some games in a couple weeks.

 

[James Car]

It looks like MS went for 8GB of RAM much earlier than Sony to incorporate their extra features, and the GPU took a hit to be sure of getting there. If GDDR5 had been a possibility earlier on they'd have likely gone for that, with more CUs in place of embedded SRAM. I don't think they were quite trying to sell you a fridge Nesh, as much as produce the best system they could with 8GB of RAM.

It doesn't look like they're skimping on games yet.

Actually it's exactly that.

If MS intended for 8gb to be standard from the get-go, and knew the only way to get there (at the time) was ddr3, they could have budgeted accordingly, put a good chunk of FAST 1tsram on a separate die (just like like last time) with a fast bus connecting them and not sacrificed the gpu die.

Instead, they went for a "good enough" concept with the thought that their hand waving would wash away concerns of a competitor with a more compelling hardware setup.

~200mm2 dedicated to the gpu isn't pie in the sky wishful thinking, it's exactly what Sony targeted because they recognized that core gamers expect good bang for the buck on console purchases that emphasize engaging interactive experiences beyond watching tv.

Regardless what MS throws at developers at this point, unless they plan on buying up the entire industry of developers, they have a losing proposition on their hands.

 

[patsu]

I want to know where Steam stands amidst all of these. Google will try to claim Androids. MS will want to pull Windows back in but their hands may be a little tied on Intel platform due to regulatory concern. Apple guard iOS closely. So they will remain as the gaming steward for PC/Mac ?

Wondering how their relationship is with Sony and MS after the last PSN outing, and his last posts against MS.

 

[warb]

Well Nintendo must hate games then.

We should perhaps wait to hear from MS and their 15 exclusive titles at e3 before we bury the X1.

 

[patsu]

Nintendo will have games alright. They already have my son 2 weeks into first grade.

Came back with Pokemon cards from friends, and learned about Nintendo characters all from his schoolmates.

They may need to fight a slightly different battle with iOS and Android.

 

[expletive]

Actually it's exactly that.

If MS intended for 8gb to be standard from the get-go, and knew the only way to get there (at the time) was ddr3, they could have budgeted accordingly, put a good chunk of FAST 1tsram on a separate die (just like like last time) with a fast bus connecting them and not sacrificed the gpu die.

Instead, they went for a "good enough" concept with the thought that their hand waving would wash away concerns of a competitor with a more compelling hardware setup.

~200mm2 dedicated to the gpu isn't pie in the sky wishful thinking, it's exactly what Sony targeted because they recognized that core gamers expect good bang for the buck on console purchases that emphasize engaging interactive experiences beyond watching tv.

Regardless what MS throws at developers at this point, unless they plan on buying up the entire industry of developers, they have a losing proposition on their hands.

It cant be more clear that MS has a different vision for the XB1's place as a lifestyle device than what Sony has for theirs. That said, you have zero basis to determine that they made decisions that were just "good enough" and not "the best possible to meet the design requirements."

Also not sure what you mean by a "losing proposition on their hands." Losing proposition on what? Price, install base, features? What exactly is the losing proposition right now?

 

[XpiderMX]

With such an investment, there must be content to see at E3.

A proof?

Forza and Quantum Break was on the reveal, and CrackDown and Halo are known IPs. The rest looks like new IPs to me.

 

[Nesh]

And thats the difference. MS's conference was aimed at general consumers while Sony's was aimed at gamers. Given MS's overall vision and timing, this makes complete sense. SONY's conference wasn't 3 weeks away from e3. Three weeks of gamer disappointment is easier to manage than 4 months. Sony had to show games as it had no console to show and Sony's has always marketed itself having a gamer centric philosophy. However, widening the appeal of a console means showing off a bunch of non gaming functionality and it's easier for MS to present this type of conference with e3 so close. MS could have minimized the backlash by having 2 conferences at e3, each with a different focus or a really long one. But that requires a greater level of logistics and cost for MS. Instead they they broke out tents and threw a presentation on their campus for XB1 on mostly it's non gaming features, but biggest differentiator with mainstream implications.


We may not see the value of Kinect and the TV integration, but we already own consoles. MS is trying to attract users whose values of different features are unlike our own and don't necessarily engage in console buying. And those that buy console but aren't heavy game buyers. Kinect and the TV integration maybe very important to these buyers and could provide an alternative revenue sources that casual gamers might more readily use.

I may sound like I contradict my self but I dont mind non-gaming functionality. I like non-gaming functionality that is direct, simple and non intrusive.

But this for me feels intrusive. The presentation tried to treat the consumer, even if its the general consumer, like a passive unit ready to accept tiny things as important with the right PR and marketing propaganda. It was like those artificial telemarketing presentations where they are trying to make the consumer feel that an unimportant product (in this case feature) is REALLY important, EVERYONE WANTS IT and "YOU WANT IT TOO". They showed OKish features that were shoved in the conference (and in the console) presented with exaggeration in order to make an impression. The audience wasnt even genuine. You could see right through that fake corporate PR.

All these tech staff may seem "great" and the general consumer may endorse them eventually for features that act like carrot on a stick like "oh now you can watch a movie and you can pause it and order a cinema ticket seamlessly (like I d want to pause a good movie)" or "now you can talk to your console....(AGAIN)" like we like doing that routinely. But they are like carrot on a stick to shove in this: This "internet", "social media", "always on camera", "constant data collection" to bombard the consumer with needless features, information overload and make the consumer experience more dependent on the corporation rather than himself.

MS (and not just MS) knows that features dont necessarily have to be important to succeed if you have the right product presentation, marketing and PR.Make it look like a life changer and you got the consumer

And lets see....the general consumer. And I ask....which general consumer? Which general consumer was eagerly waiting to see this conference as if he could predict the ALL IN ONE entertainment dream device that the next XBOX was going to be?

The general consumer that MS has not yet won with the 360 did not pay attention because he did not care about a device called XBOX to begin with.

And here is one of the problems I raised earlier.
It reminds me of Nintendo and the Wii U. They cant target the right market segment. Who is the consumer for Wii U? The casual who owns Wii already, smart phone and tablets? Or the hardcore who owns a PS360 already and will buy a next gen PS5/XBone?

What is the XBone market segmentation? The TV guy or the gamer? Is the TV guy that interested to pay premium to get ANOTHER device to connect with his cable receiver so he can switch seamlessly between movies, games and internet browsing? With Kinect? Smart TV's are integrating these functions inside them anyways and TV guys own or will own such TVs.

And I know as a general consumer or gamer or whatever that now this new XBOX, requires an always on camera, it requires internet connection and has a feature I cannot use or there is no point in using because I am from Europe only because they want to win the TV guy. Like the remote is not fast enough, as if he doesnt already have enough shit under his TV, and wants to ignore other alternatives like Smart TVs

But before you reply take in mind that this is my impression about the presentation and what they tried to communicate to me and not what the console will eventually do in terms of gaming.
Although I still dont welcome the camera and internet mandatory thing, not to mention the rest of possible intrusion in our gaming habits related to used/borrowed games and gaming feature experience/accessibility dependent on internet and on Gold subscription

Furthermore, MS and Sony are basically a performance/priced based sku apart in the same generation of technology. The performance gap between Sony and MS tech will be minuscule compared to the gap between consoles and discrete cards from nvidia and AMD. Whatever sacrifices made by MS it didn't come with a drastic difference in performance. And plus I doubt MS will be the sole lowest common denominator for all things gaming performance related.

But we dont know that yet.

 

[patsu]

The difference is their focus, not whether they have games or not, or whose budget is bigger. I remember we breathed down Sony's neck years ago for not going after the casual gamers big time. When they introduced Move, they designed it with core gamers in mind. They released Vita again for core gamers for better or worse, and are still trying to push it along with PS4. They only released sporadic family titles like SingStar, Wonderbooks over PS3's lifetime. Even this year, they still have big core games for PS3.

They are also friendly with the little guys, and even with Steam. I do hope that Steam find a solid place to stand in this time of change.

It seems only in these recent years that Sony managed to find their footing just a wee bit. Cerny, Perry, the first party studios, and the supportive third parties. May be still not making a lot of money.

I came back just to see how things are going.

Lost my Vita and gaming TV. ^_^. So I was out for quite a few months.

I might leave again because things are getting crazy in life when the kid grows up.
Will probably find time to buy some well deserved games.

Edit: oh yes, thanks for PS+. Will probably leave that running and see what free games I have. And Demon's Souls !

 

[ninzel]

I wouldn't bet against MS yet.
This talk of them abandoning the core and comparisons to Wiiu are silly and premature.
You can look at them trying to bring in a wider audience two ways, "in addition to" or "instead of". My gut tells me once the dust settles and they have fully executed it will be in addition to. The system specs are in the same league as their direct competition the PS4.
Like others have said my guess is that they will bring it hardcore at E3 and in a month or so, those that once loved MS will be back in love with them again.
They do have some potential land mines that need to be defused.
The used game issue I think will be the biggest one.
The online issue will probably not be that big of a deal in the end.
And I seem to be the only one concerned about privacy issues in regards to the Kinect camera in my home and it may remain that way. I may just be shown to be a paranoid freak or maybe once people get over the initial fascination with Kinect others will start asking some important questions.
Overall though I feel this generation will be toss up with MS being just as likely to be in the number one position at the end.

 

[Nesh]

I wouldn't bet against MS yet.
This talk of them abandoning the core and comparisons to Wiiu are silly and premature.

If you are referring to my post I did not say that the XBone is targeting the casual gamer over the core and the comparison with WiiU was related to the effort to target very different audiences simultaneously that have alternatives

 

[ninzel]

If you are referring to my post I did not say that the XBone is targeting the casual gamer over the core and the comparison with WiiU was related to the effort to target very different audiences simultaneously that have alternatives

I never read your post,just going by things I'm picking up all over the net.

 

[patsu]

I wouldn't bet against MS yet.
This talk of them abandoning the core and comparisons to Wiiu are silly and premature.
You can look at them trying to bring in a wider audience two ways, "in addition to" or "instead of". My gut tells me once the dust settles and they have fully executed it will be in addition to. The system specs are in the same league as their direct competition the PS4.
Like others have said my guess is that they will bring it hardcore at E3 and in a month or so, those that once loved MS will be back in love with them again.
They do have some potential land mines that need to be defused.
The used game issue I think will be the biggest one.
The online issue will probably not be that big of a deal in the end.
And I seem to be the only one concerned about privacy issues in regards to the Kinect camera in my home and it may remain that way. I may just be shown to be a paranoid freak or maybe once people get over the initial fascination with Kinect others will start asking some important questions.
Overall though I feel this generation will be toss up with MS being just as likely to be in the number one position at the end.

The folks over at Gaf see it as "instead of" because they think MS is not giving the core games enough airtime. Plus the online and used games issues have been circulating for months. Yet MS seem to push forward. They felt ignored.

As for privacy issues, yes, I shared and posted the same concern. GAF has a few threads on it.

But overall, I think it still boils down to execution.

 

[blakjedi]

Actually it's exactly that.

If MS intended for 8gb to be standard from the get-go, and knew the only way to get there (at the time) was ddr3, they could have budgeted accordingly, put a good chunk of FAST 1tsram on a separate die (just like like last time) with a fast bus connecting them and not sacrificed the gpu die.

Instead, they went for a "good enough" concept with the thought that their hand waving would wash away concerns of a competitor with a more compelling hardware setup.

~200mm2 dedicated to the gpu isn't pie in the sky wishful thinking, it's exactly what Sony targeted because they recognized that core gamers expect good bang for the buck on console purchases that emphasize engaging interactive experiences beyond watching tv.

Regardless what MS throws at developers at this point, unless they plan on buying up the entire industry of developers, they have a losing proposition on their hands.

You speak with a lot of surety. I'd wait to see the games and the catalogue first. If you prefer PS4 just say that. You have been pretty relentless and dismissive and and don't think we have seen or heard the whole story yet.

 

[ninzel]

The folks over at Gaf see it as "instead of" because they think MS is not giving the core games enough airtime. Plus the online and used games issues have been circulating for months. Yet MS seem to push forward. They felt ignored.

As for privacy issues, yes, I shared and posted the same concern. GAF has a few threads on it.

But overall, I think it still boils down to execution.

I'm not very familiar with Gaf except that I hear them mentioned from time to time in here. Is it a gaming website worth visiting?
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking about privacy issues.

 

[patsu]

You are *definitely* not alone. In one of the first focus tests for webcams before they are prevalent today, the housewives felt compelled to cover the webcam instinctively when it’s not in use. That is why early webcams usually have a physical shutter to block it.

These days, people seem to care less, or rather be careless. Samsung’s SmartTVs have been hacked. One of the advices is to cover up the webcam (if your SKU has it). But there’s still the mic.

Neogaf is a core gamers forum. You need to have a strong heart, mind and soul to visit there, or your head may explode. But there are good people there. I visit it sometimes because some of them are very very funny. ^_^

I should also say I get some of my game shopping advices from there and here.

EDIT: Even for PSEye, I unplug it when not in use. One of my PS3s is in the office.