Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[XpiderMX]

Major Nelson said somewhere that E3 will be about games exclusively, for what its worth ...

The E3 conference is called "Xbox: A new Generation of Games Revealed"...

 

[Bagel seed]

Supposedly it's a 90 minute presentation. I'd be surprised if there were a handful or more games that are actually live demoed, given the recent rumors.

 

[Arwin]

Supposedly it's a 90 minute presentation. I'd be surprised if there were a handful or more games that are actually live demoed, given the recent rumors.

I'm pretty sure we'll get hands on with several games, Forza 5 not in the least, as I have a sneaking suspicion that is one of their prime games that they test their new technologies on.

 

[BRiT]

Major Nelson said somewhere that E3 will be about games exclusively, for what its worth ...

Yup, I've started a place-holder for the event(s) over here -- http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=63670

The first day they have a 90 minute event scheduled that given the title would imply it's focus is games.

 

[Bagel seed]

Forza is a given, yes. As are any of the multiplatform titles like CoD or Watch Dogs as those are probably the most cooked at this point. EA will be there in full force too I presume, with their spoortz games.

 

[upnorthsox]

Forza is a given, yes. As are any of the multiplatform titles like CoD or Watch Dogs as those are probably the most cooked at this point. EA will be there in full force too I presume, with their spoortz games.

Why would you assume COD and EA would be there in full force? Don't they have their own events to host and highlight their games?

 

[Bagel seed]

Why would you assume COD and EA would be there in full force? Don't they have their own events to host and highlight their games?

Why not at both events? I'm just guessing they'll make an appearance in support for MS and their apparently close relationship now. EA with Respawn's new game as a supposed exclusive could be there as well. Oh yes and Ryse I'm sure will be there.

 

[Cyan]

I think we need to be careful of what is being accused and what not. There are different groups of people with different interests here, there, everywhere.

Some people here on this board, like to discuss from a neutral point of view. For them, the main point of discussion is if Microsoft will be successful with their business approach or not. They don't necessarely have a vested interest in Microsofts console.


Some other people, also here on this board, are current Xbox owners. They might be 'accusing' Microsoft of losing its focus because there are reasons to believe that Microsoft is going after a much bigger wider audience then they did in the past, to some degree at the expense of their current userbase. They are not really interested in Kinect nor the entertainment features of the next Xbox, but are more interested in the top-end games they've enjoyed on this and last generations Xbox.


Not all have the same interest. Even if it turns out to be correct that Microsoft is investing their billions into new games to appeal to a much wider market and have success with it - still probably wouldn't change much about those peoples general disappointment.

On the contrary, Microsoft might pull off appealing to a very wide audience, but at the same time cater to their existing userbase in a way that they are not swayed over to other platforms. That is the question. And to some other degree, how many of the now existing Xbox loyal fanbase is willing to overlook the performance difference (that may or may not be detrimental to them) and/or will be happy with the tradeoffs that were made.

The last paragraph would be me. I am not unhappy with the tradeoffs and the performance difference, that was a given when first rumours came out.

I wanted a noticeable, almost massive jump / evolution from the previous generation and that's what we got with the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One.

Both are much more efficient and elegant than any other console they have ever created, imho.

You brought a very good point though. The disappointment of the core gamers is noticeable because of their policies.

Sony hit Microsoft's weak point for massive damage and (at least for the core) jumped into the #1 spot right out of the gate.

Since then, they haven't had time enough to recoup those losses and answer the backlash, but the E3 is going to their second chance to satisfy the core. Sony are getting back in shape like in the golden years of the PlayStation brand. : D

Microsoft, on the other hand, are investing a lot of money in games, they had to get into hardware twice with the Xbox and Xbox 360 and now their goals go further, trying to create one of the largest server farms in the world.

They also had to buy and develop their own brand new IP's and developers -we shall see more of that during the E3-, and had to deeply R&D the Xbox One console to minimize the weaknesses of the hardware.

Happily for them, they aren't coming into a brand new market as a complete underdog anymore. This happened twice to them , but now the Xbox brand is quite prestigious, :smile: and they aren't spending insane money to establish themselves anymore. They are well on their way with the Xbox One.

But the only reason they could do this is that they had the money to spend. I mean... Not lose. SPEND. The first years of a 20-year plan is not going to look so hot after all.

That 3 billion looks in the hole only for the AMD contract looks intimidating... until you know that Microsoft have a lot of billions available in liquid funds.

So I think that they are going to lose part of the core game market but both the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are going to sell like hotcakes compared to the previous generation. :smile:

Nintendo are an entirely different matter. When you have so much fame from the past you are never the underdog, but I don't see them as true competition for the PS4 and Xbone.

The problem stands, DRM policies are complicated for everyone, not only core gamers but also for the mainstream audience, which don't know much about games but can get tired of the hassle where the DRM is involved. I am very unhappy with them now because of those policies.

Other than that I am happy that Microsoft changed their focus with a capable machine meant for everyone. I think going for a more mainstream console will make people respond more positively to the console. :smile:

 

[AzBat]

@borntoorulee I can confirm that we will have TV's (or similar) on stage to show games. That should be the extent of TV talk in your #E3

I guess we'll see how serious they are.

Tommy McClain

 

[Squilliam]

Further I find it more than ironic that many of those praising the new Xbox for offering services that extend beyond gaming crucified the PS3 for a similar approach with regards to bluray. And likewise many who are hyping the PS4 for having a gaming focus were critical of the 360 for having modular HD Drive, no HDMI and so on because they felt it made sense to provide additional value outside of gaming.

Now that the priorities are switched the right answer has changed. This says a lot more about manufacturer allegiance than it does about the pros and cons to either approach.

There is a significant difference between then/now. With the PS3 the Blu Ray disc increased the cost by a noticeable amount and detracted from the experience of playing a game in order to support a feature which a lot of people never/rarely used. The ability to play online movies and apps takes absolutely nothing away from the gaming part of the next generation consoles. Multi-tasking/Kinect probably does in Microsoft's case; however that capability likely will subsidise the gaming part and not the other way around. Finally we have a greater appreciation now as to the value of some of the features and the lack-thereof for others.

 

[wco81]

There is a significant difference between then/now. With the PS3 the Blu Ray disc increased the cost by a noticeable amount and detracted from the experience of playing a game in order to support a feature which a lot of people never/rarely used. The ability to play online movies and apps takes absolutely nothing away from the gaming part of the next generation consoles. Multi-tasking/Kinect probably does in Microsoft's case; however that capability likely will subsidise the gaming part and not the other way around. Finally we have a greater appreciation now as to the value of some of the features and the lack-thereof for others.

Seems like you could apply those same rationalizations to the PS3 ...

 

[Squilliam]

Seems like you could apply those same rationalizations to the PS3 ...

Nope.

Universal HDD: Benefits both for media consumption as well as gameplay. The media aspect makes the HDD even more worthwhile because it gives an extra revenue source to justify the expense.

Kinect: Benefits media consumption, makes the console relevant to families and opens up new gameplay opportunities.

Media playback: Free because games are significantly more taxing. It raises the value of the system and hence helps pay for some of the gaming performance.

Vs

Blu Ray Drive in PS3: Increased the cost, delayed the console AND showed marginal benefits whilst also detracting from the experience by increasing load times + compulsory installs.

The only equivalent would be multi-tasking in the Xbox One OS. That involves a serious quantity of RAM allocated.

 

[patsu]

Blu-ray is a logical next step for physical media. It is for distributing both HD gaming and movies when the worldwide network performance was/is not that mature yet. Nintendo and MS won't use blue diode-based media if BR has no value. I guess Nintendo's format is more stripped down so they don't have to pay the non-gaming royalties. But the high density storage can be useful for HD gaming.

The slow access time is a problem but it can be mitigated by built-in HDD.

 

[eastmen]

Blu-ray is a logical next step for physical media. It is for distributing both HD gaming and movies when the worldwide network performance was/is not that mature yet. Nintendo and MS won't use blue diode-based media if BR has no value. I guess Nintendo's format is more stripped down so they don't have to pay the non-gaming royalties. But the high density storage can be useful for HD gaming.

The slow access time is a problem but it can be mitigated by built-in HDD.

Blu-ray isn't the logical next step for physical media . They are big and bulky , the can be scratched realitively easily. The have slow transfer speed. The disc drive is huge and bulky and requires moving parts which will fail (look at psone and ps2 along with simiar problems on the ps3) Nand memory is the future. As 3bpc 19nm chips start hitting the market in number prices will drop again . 16GB micro sd is going for as low as 7.80 for a completed package. I can't see the price for full size but it should be cheaper. My feelings are simple , if the xbox one launched in 2014 it wouldn't need a bluray drive.

 

[dagamer]

Blu-ray is a logical next step for physical media. It is for distributing both HD gaming and movies when the worldwide network performance was/is not that mature yet. Nintendo and MS won't use blue diode-based media if BR has no value. I guess Nintendo's format is more stripped down so they don't have to pay the non-gaming royalties. But the high density storage can be useful for HD gaming.

The slow access time is a problem but it can be mitigated by built-in HDD.

Is the next step? Blu-ray came out 7 years ago!

Blu-ray isn't the logical next step for physical media . They are big and bulky , the can be scratched realitively easily. The have slow transfer speed. The disc drive is huge and bulky and requires moving parts which will fail (look at psone and ps2 along with simiar problems on the ps3) Nand memory is the future. As 3bpc 19nm chips start hitting the market in number prices will drop again . 16GB micro sd is going for as low as 7.80 for a completed package. I can't see the price for full size but it should be cheaper. My feelings are simple , if the xbox one launched in 2014 it wouldn't need a bluray drive.

I don't see how a 16GB microSD card for $7.80 competes with a 50GB plastic disc that costs pennies.

 

[wco81]

Nope.

Universal HDD: Benefits both for media consumption as well as gameplay. The media aspect makes the HDD even more worthwhile because it gives an extra revenue source to justify the expense.

Kinect: Benefits media consumption, makes the console relevant to families and opens up new gameplay opportunities.

Media playback: Free because games are significantly more taxing. It raises the value of the system and hence helps pay for some of the gaming performance.

Vs

Blu Ray Drive in PS3: Increased the cost, delayed the console AND showed marginal benefits whilst also detracting from the experience by increasing load times + compulsory installs.

The only equivalent would be multi-tasking in the Xbox One OS. That involves a serious quantity of RAM allocated.

Universal HDD - they want to sell you a lot of media, whether it's movies or games, including extra DLC. You pay for the cost of a big drive so that they can sell you stuff to fill it up with.

Kinect - Debatable that it benefits media consumption. Yes it may revolutionize the way we change channels or the way we select content. But it's about as substantive as motion-controlled games, which are mostly party games thus far that doesn't require precision of timing.

Is MS pushing this because it's moving interactive UIs forward, innovating, or is it a ploy to capture the casuals, the way the Wii did?

Nobody has demonstrated that motion as an alternative control mechanism is a superior form of interaction. Just that the novelty made a lot of money for Nintendo but that novelty faded and the popularity dropped off rather steeply.

So to bundle it is to divert portions of the BOM that might have been used for better components elsewhere. It's the exact same scenario as Blu-Ray on the PS3. Sony did it hoping the returns to their bottom line would be worth the investment and MS are doing the same. They're hoping people will subscribe to XBL at whatever they plan to charge, to be able to wave your arm or speak to control your TV.

Media playback -- any and every device is making sure they play back Netflix and other popular streaming services. It's more de riguer that such feature is built in, not some act of beneficence to include it. In fact, putting it behind the pay wall is a weaselly, parasitic move.

 

[eastmen]

Blu-ray caused the ps3 to be a year late , $100-$300 more expensive and ship with worse hardware.

I don't see any feature of the xbox one causing it to be that much more expensive and ship a year later. So the argument is moot

 

[patsu]

Blu-ray isn't the logical next step for physical media . They are big and bulky , the can be scratched realitively easily. The have slow transfer speed. The disc drive is huge and bulky and requires moving parts which will fail (look at psone and ps2 along with simiar problems on the ps3) Nand memory is the future. As 3bpc 19nm chips start hitting the market in number prices will drop again . 16GB micro sd is going for as low as 7.80 for a completed package. I can't see the price for full size but it should be cheaper. My feelings are simple , if the xbox one launched in 2014 it wouldn't need a bluray drive.

Is the next step? Blu-ray came out 7 years ago!

It is the logical step for DVD. ^_^
It'll be in nextgen consoles too.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Kinect - Debatable that it benefits media consumption. Yes it may revolutionize the way we change channels or the way we select content. But it's about as substantive as motion-controlled games, which are mostly party games thus far that doesn't require precision of timing.

Is MS pushing this because it's moving interactive UIs forward, innovating, or is it a ploy to capture the casuals, the way the Wii did?

Nobody has demonstrated that motion as an alternative control mechanism is a superior form of interaction. Just that the novelty made a lot of money for Nintendo but that novelty faded and the popularity dropped off rather steeply..

I think it's pretty clear that Kinect2 needs to actually work, and work well. Now, there are a large number of Kinect fans out there, you can tell by the sales. Kinect has given the 360 legs that it otherwise wouldn't have had. Me? Not a fan. Now, I don't own one, but that just tells the story in itself. I actually went out to try to find a game (just A SINGLE GAME), that would utilize the Kinect to justify buying one. I really wanted it just for the menu interaction, but I'm not going to spend $150 on a remote control. So there has to be a game. Well, I couldn't find one. The games were all crap, according to the reviews. The Kinect isn't responsive enough to make it work. So I didn't buy one.

If the Kinect2 can change that, and actually is responsive and actually can do all the things that MS is promising and demonstrated at their reveal, then it's a whole new ballgame.

Let's face it. Whether you like or hate the One or Windows 8, computing is changing. And MS is trying to adapt by making things less keyboard centric and more touch screen (W8) or even motion controlled, because that's how most of the content is going to be consumed in the future. It is a huge change, and it's not necessarily for the best.

 

[AzBat]

I think it's pretty clear that Kinect2 needs to actually work, and work well. Now, there are a large number of Kinect fans out there, you can tell by the sales. Kinect has given the 360 legs that it otherwise wouldn't have had. Me? Not a fan. Now, I don't own one, but that just tells the story in itself. I actually went out to try to find a game (just A SINGLE GAME), that would utilize the Kinect to justify buying one. I really wanted it just for the menu interaction, but I'm not going to spend $150 on a remote control. So there has to be a game. Well, I couldn't find one. The games were all crap, according to the reviews. The Kinect isn't responsive enough to make it work. So I didn't buy one.

I think you would be surprised at how well Kinect works for games. Not all Kinect games are crap, but they're probably not really your cup of tea either. Dance Central, Just Dance, Kinect Sports, Kinect Adventures, Kinectimals, Kinect Star Wars, Fruit Ninja Kinect, Zumba, Gunstringer. They are mainly casual/family/party faire. Those kind of games get more use around our house when we have company over. It will be interesting to see some Kinect One games with a little more meat to them, but I'm not getting my hopes up. BTW, you can get the current Kinect for less $100 new & about $40 used. For $40 it's worth that alone just for the remote uses.

Tommy McClain