Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox


Isn't he just doing.. what everyone in his place would do?

Anyone who works in the industry must have seen the immense backlash in the gaming communities after the xbone reveal.
To say they're going in the "opposite" direction from what has made their customers "mad" would be PR 101.

Nonetheless, whatever strategy they have executed until now (including how they made the PS4 reveal) is what got them with a more favourable public opinion. They get the credit for that, at least.
 
good marketing, they know that's how people are drawing the lines even though MS had told us well in advance of reveal not to expect games and that E3 would be the big GAME reveal... I find that kind of talk a little simple minded, appeasing a simplified rhetoric to be honest..

they BOTH will have lots of games to play that LOT's of people want to play and even with the specs as they are most people will never notice the subtle visual fidelity/resolution or frame rate difference. so it's a strawman


Not sure about that, it's not rhetoric if you follow what they are releasing, and what they announced.

Look at all the AAA first party coming out on PS3 this year, versus the 360, it's pretty easy to believe they focus more on games than MS. They also showed more exclusives at their conference, and own more games studios. MS banked on casual in the last few years and they are losing the core gamers (which situation was reversed when the PS3 launched, it was trying to be an everything device, while 360 was a core gaming device). Their conference was their chance to convince the core gamers that they have great games coming up, and they blew it. Sure Sony is jumping on it to look good, but they earned it.

Don't forget that Sony had their conference long before microsoft, they were not being reactive about it, it's not their fault if Microsoft decided to focus on TV and sports. Sony made it clear in their conference that their focus was games. Microsoft just cemented the difference.
 
nah. saturn showed surprise launches kill.

i think it also creates the situation of, lets say Xbone launches in August (anyways rumors are they have problems, so unlikely). Then you just have people perceiving PS4 as the "true" next gen and waiting for it, or vice versa if ps4 went first. It's a subtle but real thing.

Of course if you have the most power it doesn't matter lol. If Xbone was 3.0 teraflops none of that would matter. But it's 1.2.

Well I was thinking about the success of the Xbox 360 S launch. Microsoft managed to keep it a secret then they revealed the console and said pretty much if you want it you can get it now. I thought that was a very effective way to launch a console if either Microsoft or Sony wants to do an Apple and have the launch and the full unveiling happening simultainiously. They can hype the console up and then make it relevant in the present by saying that the console will be available sooner than you think. It's like telling little kids that Christmas is actually next week and not 3 months away.
 
That's just a bit naive isn't it?

That's like saying the reason facebook/google collects so much data from you is so they can save it - for your future use.

Again though, this is all secondary to the main issue which is that MS consciously decided that either their customers were either A) idiots and wouldn't notice the performance deficit to their competition, or B) MS don't care about the core gamer leaving their marketshare and are happy to fill in the void with TV viewers (big assumption that new users would fill that void).

A) This is B3D, of course I resent this
B) Good luck getting casuals/tv watchers to pay $500 for a console and $50 per year when there are many others vying for this same market offering services for cheap/free.

Its not naive at all. How responsive do you think Google search would be if it weren't crawling the internet? If services like Facebook didn't bother looking at how users use their products how good would they be in catering to those uses. What are they suppose to use, intuition?

Kinect before it was launched had to be trained to accurately decipher body movement and gestures. And now its functionality is being expanded while its performance is required to increase. Data from your users is far more informative than using a narrow set of testers.

Furthermore, companies don't get to collect and use your information all willy nilly. Facebook probably gets away with a lot because you give them the info. But collecting data using a camera without an option to turn it off isn't probably going to get past the FTC.
 
Not sure about that, it's not rhetoric if you follow what they are releasing, and what they announced.

Look at all the AAA first party coming out on PS3 this year, versus the 360, it's pretty easy to believe they focus more on games than MS. They also showed more exclusives at their conference, and own more games studios. MS banked on casual in the last few years and they are losing the core gamers (which situation was reversed when the PS3 launched, it was trying to be an everything device, while 360 was a core gaming device). Their conference was their chance to convince the core gamers that they have great games coming up, and they blew it. Sure Sony is jumping on it to look good, but they earned it.

Don't forget that Sony had their conference long before microsoft, they were not being reactive about it, it's not their fault if Microsoft decided to focus on TV and sports. Sony made it clear in their conference that their focus was games. Microsoft just cemented the difference.


appeasing a simplified rhetoric


what I meant was they are saying it to appease a fan base who have built the rhetoric for them as you described which is not based in reality IMO

they are both clearly game machines with lots of games present and future on their systems. To submit otherwise is to be disingenuous or cherry picking or ignoring facts. MS was appealing to a broader base in the reveal which is necessary to survive going forward which in no way precludes them from following that up with proof that they have games... of course they have games,, lots of games, good games, a billion dollars of investment in games as a matter of fact..

In 10 days we will see what the hell we are blah blah blahing about here which is really all it is
 
Pretty interesting interview with Marc Whitten. The interviewer is incisive and brave, and ask some good questions to Marc about the focus on games, Xbox Live Gold, used games, etc etc.

It's worth watching, imho.

https://www.gameinformer.com/b/feat...-ones-chief-product-officer-marc-whitten.aspx

So all the new TV and media features are behind the Gold wall along with everything currently behind it.

XboxLive pricing, we'll talk about later.

Used games? Stupid question pat answer. Of course you can buy/sell how else are they going to collect their platform tax. That's of course not the question, the question is, how much?

Elastic computation? Really? Really?

The biggie, who will pay for this cloud compute? Nothing, nada, might have been a nice question to ask but no....check that, everything on the net will cost money.

Gave him a chance to clarify on memory but acceptance/deference confirms the 5-3GB split.

Nothing new here really, except the 5-3 split confirmation. The guy broached most of the important topics but didn't ask any probing questions.

No spec talk at all again, I'm thinking its absense is being required for granting interviews.
 
Can't say I'm a fan of the "suck it up" attitude towards privacy concerns some exhibit here...

Yes, I find it disturbing. It is nice to see that at least some people still have a sense of privacy though.

Anyway, I think the best option is to have Microsoft AND Sony provide a choice to opt out of data logging and to have their code verified as legitimately non-intrusive by some independent privacy watch dog groups or government entities. Truthfully, I'd rather see source made public, but we all know Microsoft and Sony are some of the last companies to expect that from. I think my above suggestion is probably the best middle ground and serves everyone fairly. Thoughts?

It is a great idea to have their code audited, but I don't see them going for it. If they are collecting data they really should be very explicit about what is being collected with the user agreeing up front. Unfortunately any info will probably be buried in several pages of legalese. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Not sure about that, it's not rhetoric if you follow what they are releasing, and what they announced.

Look at all the AAA first party coming out on PS3 this year, versus the 360, it's pretty easy to believe they focus more on games than MS. They also showed more exclusives at their conference, and own more games studios. MS banked on casual in the last few years and they are losing the core gamers (which situation was reversed when the PS3 launched, it was trying to be an everything device, while 360 was a core gaming device). Their conference was their chance to convince the core gamers that they have great games coming up, and they blew it. Sure Sony is jumping on it to look good, but they earned it.

Don't forget that Sony had their conference long before microsoft, they were not being reactive about it, it's not their fault if Microsoft decided to focus on TV and sports. Sony made it clear in their conference that their focus was games. Microsoft just cemented the difference.

Here is the thing. How does providing enough resources to facilitate 15 XB1 exclusive titles within the first year of launch, not materially affect the first party development on the 360 console?

You would think a company like MS would be too busy milking the 360's 70 million plus users to accommodate such a heavy investment on the skimpy 1st year user base of its next gen console.
 
So all the new TV and media features are behind the Gold wall along with everything currently behind it.

XboxLive pricing, we'll talk about later.

It is weird, what kind of things will be available to "Silver" users? ¿BluRay movies? Will Skype be behind gold? :cry:
 
what I meant was they are saying it to appease a fan base who have built the rhetoric for them as you described which is not based in reality IMO

they are both clearly game machines with lots of games present and future on their systems. To submit otherwise is to be disingenuous or cherry picking or ignoring facts.

Couldn't agree more!

The idea that Xbone or 360 dont have games is just so disingenuous.

Even if they didn't have a single exclusive (not true of course), 95% of games are multiplatform, and they get all of those.

When I see people applauding Sony for stating PS4 is a games machine, I have to look more at it as Sony being backward, archaic, and in danger of being pigeonholed really. What you dont want, and I'm sure Sony has no intention of providing anyway, is a games only machine.

It's like CliffyB tweeted after Xbone reveal, "In a world of smartphones, tablets, and PCs releasing a console that only plays games would be the dumbest thing imaginable." And "I just want my PC to play games. Why would I want to surf Reddit, watch Youtube videos, write a term paper, laugh at animated gifs"
 
Here is the thing. How does providing enough resources to facilitate 15 XB1 exclusive titles within the first year of launch, not materially affect the first party development on the 360 console?

You would think a company like MS would be too busy milking the 360's 70 million plus users to accommodate such a heavy investment on the skimpy 1st year user base of its next gen console.

How much support did PS2 get after Xbox 360? Let alone after it's actual successor, PS3?

And it was the most popular console ever.

Old consoles die pretty fast.
 
Here is the thing. How does providing enough resources to facilitate 15 XB1 exclusive titles within the first year of launch, not materially affect the first party development on the 360 console?

I don't know. Ask Sony. 15 games would be pretty average in terms of output for them on a single platform. And it sure doesn't appear like there will be a shortage of first party Sony games for the PS4 in the first 12 months. We already know about, what is it? Six so far?

Rangers said:
How much support did PS2 get after Xbox 360? Let alone after it's actual successor, PS3?

  • 2005
    [*]Ace Combat:Squadron Leader (Namco co-published)
    [*]Ape Escape 3
    [*]Buzz!: The Music Quiz
    [*]Death By Degrees (Namco co-published)
    [*]EyeToy: Play 3
    [*]Formula One 05
    [*]Genji: Dawn of the Samurai
    [*]God of War
    [*]Gran Turismo 4
    [*]Jak X: Combat Racing
    [*]MLB 2006
    [*]NBA 06
    [*]Ratchet: Deadlocked
    [*]Rise of the Kasai (North America only)
    [*]Shadow of the Colossus
    [*]SOCOM 3: U.S. Navy SEALs
    [*]Soul Calibur 3 (Namco co-published)
    [*]Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
    [*]Tekken 5 (Namco co-published)
    [*]WRC: Rally Evolved​
  • 2006
    [*]24: The Game
    [*]Ace Combat Zero: The Belkan War (Namco co-published)
    [*]ATV Offroad Fury 3
    [*]Siren 2
    [*]Formula One 06
    [*]Hot Shots Tennis
    [*]MLB 06: The Show
    [*]NBA 07
    [*]Shinobido: Way of the Ninja
    [*]SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Combined Assault
    [*]Tourist Trophy
    [*]Urban Reign (Namco co-published)
    [*]2007
    [*]Ape Escape Million Monkeys (NTSC only)
    [*]God of War II
    [*]MLB 07: The Show
    [*]NBA 08
    [*]Rogue Galaxy
    [*]Syphon Filter: Dark Mirror​
  • 2008
    [*]ATV Offroad Fury 4
    [*]MLB 08: The Show
    [*]Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters
    [*]Twisted Metal: Head-On: Extra Twisted Edition​
  • 2009
    [*]Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier
    [*]MLB 09: The Show
    [*]MotorStorm: Arctic Edge​
  • 2010
    [*]MLB 10: The Show
    [*]Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (NTSC only)​
  • 2011
    [*]MLB 11: The Show​
 
I don't know. Ask Sony. 15 games would be pretty average in terms of output for them on a single platform. And it sure doesn't appear like there will be a shortage of first party Sony games for the PS4 in the first 12 months. We already know about, what is it? Six so far?

I'd guess if you ask sony , its easy to have a lot of ps3 exclusives and ps4 exclsuvies because a lot of the ps3 ones slipped from 2012 and some of them slipped into ps4 titles.
 
regarding pay wall Gold.. BFD, I have paid for Gold every year for 10 years

Yup xbox gold family for $100 / 4 people = $25 a year. Or $2.10 a month and its features are worth it over psn . Cross game chat has been a god send in getting my friends together on the same game
 
I don't know. Ask Sony. 15 games would be pretty average in terms of output for them on a single platform. And it sure doesn't appear like there will be a shortage of first party Sony games for the PS4 in the first 12 months. We already know about, what is it? Six so far?

It always seems to me like first party Sony output tends to be overrated because they talk about it so early, and half of it is vaporware.

It seems like Sony has more games because we talk about stuff like Last Guardian for five fricken years on end, and it may not even exist.

A lot of their other stuff they show super early, so you hear about it 3+ years, so it seems like they have more games than they actually do. Because we're talking about their games about to come out and their games 3 years away at the same time, whereas MS we're only talking about their games about to come out.

Last fall MS had Halo 4 and Forza Horizon, Sony had some All Stars clone that sold horrifically. That was a huge first party mismatch, but it wasn't mentioned.

Big list of games

It's not that much and a lot of it looks shovelwarish. Anyway maybe I should have said 1st party support since that's what we were talking about.

I seem to recall PS2 dying pretty fast even against 360. And in that time Sony should have still been full supporting it since it was their only system. The only really big 1st party PS2 game I recall after 360, or maybe it was after PS3, was a God of War.

It's not a knock on Sony, more a commentary on how this industry works, and how quickly old gen is marginalized.

But yeah, EA and the like will keep spitting out 360/PS3 stuff, at least the big games for at least 2-3 years after Xbone/PS4. That's a given, a no brainer. But they do die off surprisingly quickly.

For PS3 they have, Last of US (coming well before next gen anyway), Beyond (is it still PS3?), GT6? And everybody on GAF is whining GT6 shoulda been for PS4 at that.
 
The ps2 also sold double what the ps3 sold at the same point in its life. So I tmade a lot of sense to continue with games.


I'm sure both ps3 and xbox 360 will have new titles coming out through 2014 and some in 2015 but it falls off really quickly
 
It always seems to me like first party Sony output tends to be overrated because they talk about it so early, and half of it is vaporware.

It seems like Sony has more games because we talk about stuff like Last Guardian for five fricken years on end, and it may not even exist.

A lot of their other stuff they show super early, so you hear about it 3+ years, so it seems like they have more games than they actually do. Because we're talking about their games about to come out and their games 3 years away at the same time, whereas MS we're only talking about their games about to come out.

Last fall MS had Halo 4 and Forza Horizon, Sony had some All Stars clone that sold horrifically. That was a huge first party mismatch, but it wasn't mentioned.

I don't care what phantoms you've invented in your mind about how many games Sony produced. Let's look at actual data. Here's what Sony published just on PS3 in 2012:

  • Book of Spells
  • Jak and Daxter Collection
  • Killzone Trilogy
  • LittleBigPlanet Karting
  • MLB 12: The Show
  • PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale
  • Ratchet & Clank Collection
  • Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault
  • Starhawk
  • Sorcery
  • Sports Champion 2
  • Tokyo Jungle
  • Twisted Metal
  • Datura
  • Journey
  • PixelJunk 4am
  • The Unfinished Swan

Not counting HD collections that's 15 titles. They also published over 20 games on Vita in the same year. 2011 was even bigger for the PS3:

  • PixelJunk SideScroller
  • PlayStation Move Ape Escape
  • Ape Escape On The Move
  • Carnival Island
  • DC Universe Online
  • Everybody Dance
  • God of War: Origins Collection
  • The Ico & Shadow of the Colossus Collection
  • Infamous 2
  • Killzone 3
  • LittleBigPlanet 2
  • Medieval Moves: Deadmund's Quest
  • MLB 11: The Show
  • MotorStorm: Apocalypse
  • PlayStation Move Heroes
  • Ratchet & Clank: All 4 One
  • Resistance 3
  • SOCOM 4
  • Start the Party 2
  • Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
  • White Knight Chronicles 2

That's 19 PS3 games, not counting HD remakes. One of the reasons 2012 was a bit light on AAA games was because so many hit the year before.

It's not that much and a lot of it looks shovelwarish. Anyway maybe I should have said 1st party support since that's what we were talking about.

That entire list was SCE published games (co-published titles were noted). Obviously towards the end most of the games were PSP ports
 
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