Oh shit, I read this yesterday and thought it said Titanfall, only now did I notice it said Towerfall.
Do it Sony.
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
Do it Sony.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...ps4-sales-microsoft-still-silent-on-xbox-one/
If today's NPD doesn't favor XB1 heavily (PS4 456k, XB1 >550k) after all the price cuts, TF/Forza bundles, live promotions, and securing TF for XB1. Is it time for MS to start looking into (if not already) a Kinect-less sku? If Sony does/did secure a 6:1 or 7:1 global sales ratio over XB1, can MS realistically survive mostly on NA and EU sales, and combat Sony's ever growing install base across 70'ish countries and territories?
Any word on MS launching in other territories (soon, rather than later)?
If today's NPD doesn't favor XB1 heavily (PS4 456k, XB1 >550k) after all the price cuts, TF/Forza bundles, live promotions, and securing TF for XB1. Is it time for MS to start looking into (if not already) a Kinect-less sku? If Sony does/did secure a 6:1 or 7:1 global sales ratio over XB1, can MS realistically survive mostly on NA and EU sales, and combat Sony's ever growing install base across 70'ish countries and territories?
Any word on MS launching in other territories (soon, rather than later)?
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They announced they are launching in I think 26 more countries, in September. http://news.xbox.com/2014/03/xbox-one-new-markets
Pretty much all the ones worth bothering with will be covered at that point I presume. It includes Japan, the Nordics, Netherlands, etc, which are the only relevant ones outstanding.
The 13 countries they're in are over 90% of the market I'd assume. We dont say "Oh, Sony has only outsold them 7:4 because Sony are in so many more markets". So, we seem to understand the additional markets are a small slice.
We've done much discussion of a Kinectless SKU, and yeah I think it probably needs to go. A bit sad for them with all the work they've invested in it. But oh well. They aren't even releasing much software with it. Kinect Sports Rivals performed lackluster on the charts, and it's the one noteworthy Kinect release.
I do wonder if they can really bring themselves to let it go after all the investment. And if they might take a 360 esque strategy of making Kinect optional (Kinect-free and Kinect included SKU's)?
Yep, but the prices around here are higher than the expected official price. And there are some limitations on the what you can do. For example you can't use a Danish credit card and there is limitations on the different video apps.
Tldr, the sales are limited to hard-core fans.
EDIT: Just checked prices, the import version of the xb1 is $20 cheaper than a ps4, yes really...
The biggest game on the platform doesn't use Kinect, yet all we heard for months was how essential the camera was. Kinect Sports has mediocre reviews. The workout game probably is the best use of the tech, IMO there is some potential there I just don't think MS is the company capable of being patient enough and consistent enough to do much with it. Ironically I think Sony would have done much more.
You must be talking reviews, because it didn't ship until April 8 in the US.
I know the NPD numbers don't look good, but I'm still not sure a Kinect-less system is a smart move. Everybody in this forum is screaming for it, but nobody here actually cared much for the device for gaming purposes. Interested in the tech? Yes. Interested in voice control? Yes. But not gaming uses. Take away Kinect & it compares poorly to PS4. It would need to have a pack-in game, free Gold subscription or something to even be able to sell at the same $400 as the PS4. It's the one unique feature that XB1 has going for it & people want to take it away? Why not just buy a PS4 instead? If they drop the Kinect sensor & go with price parity with PS4, then what do the smart ones think is a fair price for Kinect? It's not going to sell for $110 or less as that's the price of the 360 sensor. It will most likely sell for $150 at least. So $400 for the console + $150 for the sensor? Sorry, but I think the current bundle is a better deal. Separate the bundle & you basically just kill off Kinect altogether. I think MS will just wait it out & announce a $400-$450 Kinect bundle at E3. But they need to get good Kinect games out there ASAP.
Tommy McClain
Price points are psychological. The most important thing is to reach 399 so that the first digit is one less.
The majority of consumers feel like it's a great bargain only if the first digit changes. The difference between 399 and 449 is big, but the difference between 349 and 399 isn't (it doesn't matter that maths don't agree). The way the brain works...
The majority of consumers feel like it's a great bargain only if the first digit changes. The difference between 399 and 449 is big, but the difference between 349 and 399 isn't (it doesn't matter that maths don't agree). The way the brain works...
Are there big upcoming games advertising some revolutionary Kinect gameplay mechanic?
No need to keep things under wrap if X1 needs sales boost.
Like many have said before, if there was something revolutionary to be done with motion controls, we'd have seen it by now, years after the Wii came out, Kinect1, etc.
MS made some interesting tech demos but apparently the games developers haven't been inspired.
No need to keep things under wrap if X1 needs sales boost.
Like many have said before, if there was something revolutionary to be done with motion controls, we'd have seen it by now, years after the Wii came out, Kinect1, etc.
MS made some interesting tech demos but apparently the games developers haven't been inspired.
Pffft. Sony have sat on their hands regards their own tech/ideas too. Only Nintendo has shown a commitment to alternative inputs. Kinect + Nintendo would have been the only way to give the tech a fair shot. They'd have incorporated it with their platforming and racing franchises as well as made mini games.
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Deleted member 11852
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It's difficult to tell what Sony is doing in controller tech. Look at Morpheus, which they've been working on since 2009 and only five years later do they even reveal it - and then only because they have to bring devs in on it early and getting them thinking about this stuff. I also appreciate them not fostering suboptimal control schemes on me, a lesson I think (and hope) they learned with Lair and Warhawk. For a while I was anticipating PS4 launching with a bundled camera and Move controller.
They tried, Move just failed. They had Move PS3 SKU's just like MS had Kinect 360 SKU's.
Edit: I sort of see what you're saying about PS4, but by then it was already long clear Move was going nowhere. Partly because Sony tends to not stick to things imo (remember their big 3D push?). But it arguably helped them in this case. As MS certainly stuck with Kinect, and it's arguably killing them. Hell if you agree with Kinect being the reason XOne hardware is weaker, then it literally killed them this whole generation, or put them in a uphill struggle, heh.
Edit: I sort of see what you're saying about PS4, but by then it was already long clear Move was going nowhere. Partly because Sony tends to not stick to things imo (remember their big 3D push?). But it arguably helped them in this case. As MS certainly stuck with Kinect, and it's arguably killing them. Hell if you agree with Kinect being the reason XOne hardware is weaker, then it literally killed them this whole generation, or put them in a uphill struggle, heh.
I actually think it matters. People do not want the worse product even if they do not know HOW it is worse.
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I've read from a lot of folks, people on this board, reviewers, that for shooters, Move is far superior to a gamepad. But it's a limited usage case. Or maybe not limited to shooters but it's just that nobody else tried to do much else with it.
As an accompaniment to Morpheus it may make more sense. It gives your arms a fast, reliably trackable presence in space.
It's not about bundling hardware. It's about supporting it with software. Neither MS nor Sony have really gotten behind their ideas, whether EyeToy or Sixaxis or Kinect or Move. MS did put some effort behind Kinect 1 once it took off, but similar to EyeToy, they rode the minigame fad and then left it for dead.
A new device needs more than one minigame collection and one sports game collection to be a long term success. Throwing hardware into a device, whether included as standard (sixaxis motion input) or as a peripheral, is not enough to ensure it'll be widely adopted and bring value to the system. The console companies have to lead strongly with software, showing the 3rd parties what can be done and encouraging them to add fancy interface options, instead of pushing some new hardware in their faces and saying, "do something with this, if you want, although feel free to ignore it too." MS have just stuck Kinect in the box and left it at that. They aren't supporting it at all, really. They don't trust it and aren't committing significant resources in promoting it. they went as far as console services and then gave up. I find myself thinking about that there was a change of direction and the new management strategy has basically forsaken the path started with the original concept. In which case, Kinect is dead weight. No-one's going to commit to it, it won't be a differentiator more than what it currently provides, which probably isn't enough to win over the masses, and so it serves no real purpose any more. MS can release a cheaper box and compete as just another console.
But regards MS vs Sony business strategy, they're currently both equally cowardly and conservative regards their new 'big' ideas.
But are they big ideas? Looking at other markets, there brands make new products as "gimmicks" or limited run to make sure they stay fresh and their brand/main product don't disappear into the ether as a constant.
Examples are limited run chocolates with new tastes or Pepsi clear or Coca Cola "weird flavour of the year". Maybe the console makers should just do stunts like that, to keep the hype about their main product up? Or where the Move, 3D TV, Wii controller etc such things? But due to the success of the Nintendo Wii, people started overdosing on their cool aid and now we got Kinect 2?
Also the satisfaction of buying the "best" product should not be underestimated, quite a few of my friends bought the X360 early on. Excused themselves and thought the PS3 was better, but they could not afford it or it was before PS3 launched, so they "settled" for X360. Anecdotal yes, but quite a big percentage of my friends did that.
Examples are limited run chocolates with new tastes or Pepsi clear or Coca Cola "weird flavour of the year". Maybe the console makers should just do stunts like that, to keep the hype about their main product up? Or where the Move, 3D TV, Wii controller etc such things? But due to the success of the Nintendo Wii, people started overdosing on their cool aid and now we got Kinect 2?
Also the satisfaction of buying the "best" product should not be underestimated, quite a few of my friends bought the X360 early on. Excused themselves and thought the PS3 was better, but they could not afford it or it was before PS3 launched, so they "settled" for X360. Anecdotal yes, but quite a big percentage of my friends did that.
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This implies both companies had some fantastic ideas but chose not to implement. While that may be a possibility I think the reality is more mundane; that neither company could come up with any viable revolutionary product developments close to their target budget.
No amount of money guarantees great ideas. Just look at the lack of revolution, as opposed to evolution, of just about everything made now.
I'm talking about their released products. Look at how much MS spent on developing Kinect hardware, and then how little they invested in getting valuable Kinect features into every first-party title (not just waggle control, but features like facial scanning and body tracking augments to conventional games). Look how many years Sony has spent on RnD to finally release Move and then provide but a few simple games, and then forsake it with their next box. Look at the concept vid Sony made of all they could do with a next-gen EyeToy, and then compare that to how little they invested in camera based tech. They released with a handful of gimmicky games on the PSN store, and presumably as a result of those not selling gangbusters, pretty much closed shop on camera support. Where was the EyeToy Play HD for PS4? They decided the £1 million or whatever to make it wasn't worth it.
Right. It's not the investment that makes the success. You have an idea, try it, and it flies or fails. But if you don't back an idea fully, you pretty much guarantee its failure. If you have an idea but you don't believe in it and don't back it as you fear it'll fail and don't want to lose money on it, that's what I'm calling cowardly. In business terms, they should have an idea and back it 100%, with advertising and software and support. If they have an idea and only get 15% behind it, testing the waters and backing out if they don't smell and instant success, they'll never support real progress. Wii was a success because Nintendo backed it. They could have made it a peripheral to their new console, made one cautious game, advertised it as an aside, and it'd have failed to steamroll into the next-big-thing.
Sony is going to invest far more in VR I think than anything prior because there's a hype around it. But that's basically riding the wave, rather than pioneering. Sony could have done amazing things with EyeToy/cameras if they weren't such sissies. Kinect is going to flop because it hasn't really been given a decent chance. MS have wimped out on the vision. They got the world's greatest depth camera tech, a good couple of years ahead of what anyone else could bring, and they use it for voice control! If they don't believe in it themselves, how can they expect consumers to buy into it with confidence and hope for big things in the future?
