Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

Elop NEVER stated anything in relation to Xbox. What you are referring to is nothing more than a rumor originating from Bloomberg which was shot down by MS rather quickly and comically:
What did you expect MSFT to do ahead of launch even if Elop considered the option? Or for Bloomberg to fight back and expose its source?

But... let's continue to propagate fiction because Elop and MS are the obvious creations of Satan... :p
Elop is IMO the right guy for this division.
He could be though how can you be sure? Did he publicly exposed his views, etc.
Wrt to Satan, it is more than disputable, I would think that Jobs and Apple are the luciferians, I can imagine Google being run by reptilians, that does not leave that many options for MSFT either morganians or siths lords, choose your poison.

Anyway there are still too much disturbances in the Force on those topics, I will happily quit the discussion on the business topic for a while, say till MSFT cuts the xb1 price... Oh wait... :LOL:
So for longer than that.
 
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GameStop in the UK are offering the Titanfall bundle for £370:

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...fall-bundle-price-is-pound369-at-gamestop-uk/

This is just one retailer, but the reason this is interesting is because it indicates that MS are offering some fairly healthy margins on Xbone to encourage retailers to push it. MS may very well be starting to cut into that profit margin that they were so pleased about having on Xbone.

Anyone have any idea what PS4 retailer margins might be?
 
UK RRPs come with healthy margins. I'm pretty sure MS even mentioned this, giving their UK retail partners room to manoeuvre.
 
GameStop in the UK are offering the Titanfall bundle for £370:

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...fall-bundle-price-is-pound369-at-gamestop-uk/

This is just one retailer, but the reason this is interesting is because it indicates that MS are offering some fairly healthy margins on Xbone to encourage retailers to push it. MS may very well be starting to cut into that profit margin that they were so pleased about having on Xbone.

Anyone have any idea what PS4 retailer margins might be?

This is not necessarilly an indication of good margin. You dont know who absorbed the cost. I dont know the margins in the UK but I know the margin in some Euro currency countries is way too small for the next gen consoles
 
This is not necessarilly an indication of good margin. You dont know who absorbed the cost. I dont know the margins in the UK but I know the margin in some Euro currency countries is way too small for the next gen consoles

Then its good that the stores here in Norway bumped the price with about 75-150€ due to supply shortages :)
 
Well you would though. If you've spent £70 over the odds to get a console and game only for someone else to get it for that £70 cheaper, you'd be right pissed

The One cut was from 430 pounds to 399 though...more like a $50 cut in USA terms. And it didn't change anywhere else in the world...

Are we to be mad every time a retailer has a sale (on any product) and we bought the product a week earlier? It's a part of life...Target (major US retailer) just gave away a $50 gift card with Xbox One...for one week. If you didn't buy it from February 16-22, tough luck...it's a part of life. Or what if you missed out on that $1k TV $200 off one week only...etc.

As always there's a line though, and with the 3DS precedent pointed out, I guess a major price cut within say, 6 months, should likely be complemented with at least some free software offer according to precedent.

But I dont see 30 pounds in only one country, or throwing in a pack in game, as living up to the definition of major. It happens. Wii U packed in Zelda last year, all the people who bought one prior month complained? I dont think so...pack ins are standard practice.
 
Are we to be mad every time a retailer has a sale (on any product) and we bought the product a week earlier?
Yes.
It's a part of life...
Being mad is a part of life too. ;)

Or to put it more clearly, people will be disappointed by unfairness and injustice, and they will grumble. The alternative is a completely docile society that tolerates all manner of unfairnesses and injustices. One would hope that people have perspective and after their emotional upset, will get on with (more important) things. I am not in favour of the suppression of natural emotions though, when there's nothing wrong with that expression. So what if people post on forums, "I'm so mad!!"? As long as they're not going too far with it ("I want a class-action lawsuit! I'm gonna find where they live and axe their car up."), they're entitled to an unfavourable opinion.

1) A company drops their product price
2) That was real unfair on those who paid more
3) Those people grumble
4) They are either ignored, or companies look at alternative price reductions strategies*

*I even suggested one years ago, about a predetermined price reduction path, where every shopper new there'd be a new price point every 3/6 months, say, or somesuch. But it's only by knowing how people feel about things that we can determine if we should look into trying something different or not.

I was just watching a Mythbusters episode about boarding a plane. Research showed people were disgruntled with the time it takes to board a plane. Mythbusters investigated and found three viable alternatives that boarded in half the time and with much greater client satisfactions. Flights are now free to act on that info or not. But if no-one had voiced their opinion, and had just accepted slow boarding times as part of life, the research wouldn't have been performed to find a better alternative.

It all comes down to free speech. There's nothing wrong in letting people be honest. In fact, it's good for society, except society really hasn't got comfortable with dealing with honesty. Honest leads to real understanding and betterment, where keeping quiet achieves nothing expect the status quo.
 
Yes.
Being mad is a part of life too. ;)....

Thats good and all. But every time this subject is broached its mostly all hypotheticals.

There are a quite a few people here who bought the XB1 in the last three months, yet this discussion isn't being driven by their disgruntled posts.

Sales happen all the time. Most people see it as a missed opportunity not an opportunity to get mad at the manufacturer.
 
MS has not even announced plans to expand to more countries and its almost march? This is getting pretty odd and cant be worth it if its just for kinect related language reasons.
 
that does not leave that many options for MSFT either morganians or siths lords, choose your poison..

Sith Lord FTW. Best thing in the ... prequels. The Dark Side turned Anikan from a whiny teen to one of the best villains ever so more Dark Force I say.
 
I wouldn't think this topic is just for owners, but on the business decisions of the respective companies. It's interesting to analyze what kind of an impact a price cut has on the larger demographic because that in itself gives us more factors to include into any analysis on potential future sales, market share, success or failure etc.

I agree too that it's a fail if you don't, fail if you do kind of scenario. Cutting price soon after the launch of a new product doesn't exactly give off the best impression, especially if the nearest competitor is selling out at a large rate. On the other hand, if the high price is one of the big factors why it isn't selling, then perhaps it's better to do it early than late. But I am not really convinced it's the price that is the prime problem that's hurting the Xbox One's sales and I am not really convinced it will boost sales all that much....

Speaking strictly from my point-of-view; if I as a customer prefer one product over another, I most likely wouldn't touch the product that I prefer less with a stick even if it was thrown after me at a ridiculous price - especially if both products are too similar, but the one of my choice being slightly better than the other. I think the Xbox One and the PS4 are too similar. They are both consoles, but the experience on one seems to be better and there are too few games (exclusives) that distinguish the experience. The trump card for Xbox One is either the TV integration (in NA), the VC and set-top features (if you dig it) and Kinect for games (again, if you dig it). These are the areas where it distinguishes itself from the competition. IMO, Kinect would be the only point that would have me remotely interested in the Xbox One as purely an alternative to a PS4, offering a very different experience. At this point though, the games seem to be missing that would make the experience too different.

It's actually one of the reason why, back in the day, as a PS3 owner, I had considered buying a Wii, but never a X360. The X360 and PS3 were too similar. On the other hand, a Wii was for a long time too expensive for a mere "party toy" - and once it came down in price, the PS3 (for my liking) offered enough of the party type experience I would have otherwise fullfilled with a Wii. Still - with enough cash at my disposal to buy silly products that I probably won't end up using a whole lot, I could have just as well ended up with one. If I had, I guess I would be among the millions that bought into the Wii as a cool toy to have for guests, but ultimately not use it, not play it and certainly not consider buying a Wii-U - as people after some point either got bored of it, saw the gimmick behind it, or realized that the fancy waving hands gets tiresome after the novelty wears off and pretty much move on to Angry Birds and other silly games for micro-amounts of dollars on tablets and smartphones. Been there, done that... on the PS2 with EyeToy.

Back to present day and here we have the Xbox One that, apart from the fancy VC and set-top-box and TV integration features, seems to be going in precisely that direction. At least, that's the impression I got, when I heard that Microsoft was bundling their console with Kinect. I would have felt the same, if Sony, for similar reasons, decided to bundle their console with their Eye/Move. Even if in the end, the focus are still on hardcore game focused Kinect-less games, the fact still remains that at some point, Microsoft subsituted computing power for Kinect. They wanted that TV integration stuff, the VC and Kinect all bundled in that machine, for a pre-determined heat/power/cost budget and that's what we ended up with. The result being that in a lot of multi-platform games, which the majority of games will be this generation, it seems the One will be at a clear disadvantage.

People might be asking why this wasn't a factor back when the PS3 launched and offered exactly this inferiority in multiplatform games compared to the X360 - which wasn't just out a year in earlier, but cheaper as well. Well, I guess for some reason, coming from the PS2, the logic of the PS3 launching later gave us reason to believe into the hype that the PS3 on many levels would offer a performance advantage. Then, to a large degree, the games we loved and bought a PS2 for, come to a large degree from strong 1st and 2nd party developers that kind of have become synominous with the PlayStation brand. Then there was Bluray, HDMI, new HD capable TV screens coming at affordable prices all at the same time which just kind of made sense to wait for it, pay more and put up with inferior ports. For the large part, the difference wasn't all THAT big either - at least, if you pretended there wasn't a X360 version outthere, it didn't really exist. And for all the inferiour ports we got, we at least got some very good 1st party games that kind of made for it.

The situation is a bit different now though. Microsoft changed their approach and made that pretty clear from the first moment they revealed their new console. Their box isn't just a gaming console, it's more than that. If you don't like that direction or are not interested in it, tough luck. For those that are not interested in these features - which I suspect a lot of X360 owners are not - the box that remains is, as a game console, technically inferior product to its closest competitor. And I do believe the X360 userbase and the PS2/3 userbase are a bit different: A lot of the PlayStation market has lived on the premise of the brandname by the games and developers that have become synonymous with the brand - on the Xbox, I find, there seem to be a lot of gamers that have a close tie to the PC - many ex PC gamers which I would guess are considered more "hardcore gamers" - gamers that care about graphics, framerate etc. To this specific demographic, is must be quite a blow to see that the PS4 now not only combines the better specced machine (for focused games), but Sony also seems to have made it clear that they are completely focused on it as a gaming machine.

Then there's also the point that in the first time in history, both Sony and Microsoft are going head-to-head, both launching for the first time within months. Both consoles are not backwards-compatible to any relevant degree, so it's only logical to assume that gamers and potential buyers are critical of which investment they make - and I would assume for a lot of early adopters which are mostly hardcore gamers, judging by the ridiculous demand, that seems to be the PS4. And this trend, will continue as more average buyers will flock to the brand that seems to be "the more successfull one".

Is Microsoft doomed? Of course not. Is the Xbox One doomed? No. But at this point, I am really struggling to see how they can change around the negative trend (compared to the success they enjoyed with the X360). I think the problem isn't the price - it's more to do with the games. Microsoft needs to push the console with exclusives - games, we want to play and that are only available on their system. They aren't going to sway any gamers with inferior multiplatform titles. Titanfall is a step in the right direction, but one game isn't enough...

Anyway, this is just talking purely from my perspective and my take on the situation.
 
Yes.
Being mad is a part of life too. ;)

Or to put it more clearly, people will be disappointed by unfairness and injustice, and they will grumble. The alternative is a completely docile society that tolerates all manner of unfairnesses and injustices. One would hope that people have perspective and after their emotional upset, will get on with (more important) things. I am not in favour of the suppression of natural emotions though, when there's nothing wrong with that expression. So what if people post on forums, "I'm so mad!!"? As long as they're not going too far with it ("I want a class-action lawsuit! I'm gonna find where they live and axe their car up."), they're entitled to an unfavourable opinion.

1) A company drops their product price
2) That was real unfair on those who paid more
3) Those people grumble
4) They are either ignored, or companies look at alternative price reductions strategies*

*I even suggested one years ago, about a predetermined price reduction path, where every shopper new there'd be a new price point every 3/6 months, say, or somesuch. But it's only by knowing how people feel about things that we can determine if we should look into trying something different or not.

I was just watching a Mythbusters episode about boarding a plane. Research showed people were disgruntled with the time it takes to board a plane. Mythbusters investigated and found three viable alternatives that boarded in half the time and with much greater client satisfactions. Flights are now free to act on that info or not. But if no-one had voiced their opinion, and had just accepted slow boarding times as part of life, the research wouldn't have been performed to find a better alternative.

It all comes down to free speech. There's nothing wrong in letting people be honest. In fact, it's good for society, except society really hasn't got comfortable with dealing with honesty. Honest leads to real understanding and betterment, where keeping quiet achieves nothing expect the status quo.

A verbally annoyed consumer makes for a better megacorporation ( very small businesses not so much ) because the bigger the company the more consumer rage is needed to keep in it in check. Would anybody have wanted Sony's "The next generation doesn't start till we say it does" mindset to have won the day ?
 
1) A company drops their product price
2) That was real unfair on those who paid more
3) Those people grumble
4) They are either ignored, or companies look at alternative price reductions strategies*

*I even suggested one years ago, about a predetermined price reduction path, where every shopper new there'd be a new price point every 3/6 months, say, or somesuch. But it's only by knowing how people feel about things that we can determine if we should look into trying something different or not.
Your point #2 is not valid. Almost all early adopters buy new products at a higher price than the people who buy them later. This is simply supply and demand. The folks who bought the product earlier have the advantage that they owned the product earlier. In economics parlance, they understood that by waiting long enough, they could get the product cheaper (because it always happens at some point), but they considered the utility of owning the product earlier as more valuable to them, and were willing to pay more for that privilege.

Do the people who paid $200 more for a launch unit on e-bay think that it was unfair that someone else paid MSRP? No. They valued the device at greater than MSRP, because if they hadn't, they wouldn't have bought it. Same for the folks that bought the device at 499 without titanfall. If they didn't think it was worth it, they didn't have to buy it. They could have waited for the price drop. It might not have happened in a week, but it _would_ happen eventually.
 
Then there's also the point that in the first time in history, both Sony and Microsoft are going head-to-head, both launching for the first time within months. Both consoles are not backwards-compatible to any relevant degree, so it's only logical to assume that gamers and potential buyers are critical of which investment they make - and I would assume for a lot of early adopters which are mostly hardcore gamers, judging by the ridiculous demand, that seems to be the PS4. And this trend, will continue as more average buyers will flock to the brand that seems to be "the more successful one".
Lots of interesting points, I think the lack of BC indeed hurts. Sony and MSFT choices have triggered a big reset.
It also closed the door on some possible strategies, especially for MSFT. They have goals further gaming for the XB1. Price is a key factor to reach masses, I wonder what would have been public reaction to a XBox 2.5 (I count the xbox one as the xbox 3) that:
is a cheap upgrade.
Run your old games
Does not offer the perf of the XB1 (more the jump from the GC to an hypothetical Wii+ ).
comes with no new peripherals (be it a pad or a new kinect).
Use existing peripheral (pad, kinect, guitar, etc.).

There could have been an "upgrade sku", no HDD, no pad, etc. (you use what you already have) sold supa cheap.

Definitely I could see hardcore bothered but BC is a neat "sweetener", without BC such offering is "unsellable".

BC was troublesome thanks to the choice made by MSFT and Sony last gen, yet whereas I'm not fond of the WiiU, Nintendo still manage a great jump in performances from the wii to the WiiU.

Is Microsoft doomed? Of course not. Is the Xbox One doomed? No. But at this point, I am really struggling to see how they can change around the negative trend (compared to the success they enjoyed with the X360). I think the problem isn't the price - it's more to do with the games. Microsoft needs to push the console with exclusives - games, we want to play and that are only available on their system. They aren't going to sway any gamers with inferior multiplatform titles. Titanfall is a step in the right direction, but one game isn't enough...

Anyway, this is just talking purely from my perspective and my take on the situation.
I do not agree I think performances are measure compared to the price and the overall offering.
If tomorrow there is a 299$ XB1 without kinect I think it's going to fly from the retailers shelves really fast.
MSFT needs a more affordable system, the system performances are lower and it is also more closed: paywall and overall policies are "harder" (think the HDD policies). Now whereas the overall environment is still maturing I think the the XB1 will offer more than the PS4 but will the masses be ok with the paywall preventing them to go on youtube, facebook, to use a simple browser?
In 2014 I think no, the STB my ISP provides me with allows me to do those things already.
I think on top of pricing MSFT has to re-review their online policies and loosen them a tad.
 
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Even so, the point is if you get Titanfall for free starting the 11th (somebody said 14th so maybe that's UK?) there's no point before then.

Even though it's only 3 days difference though I guess the 11th is more palatable.

Because it's impossible that someone would want an xbone and not want TF?

I'm not really into fps, (assuming I actually had the money) why would I wait for a free game I have no interest in?
 
Is Microsoft doomed? Of course not. Is the Xbox One doomed? No. But at this point, I am really struggling to see how they can change around the negative trend (compared to the success they enjoyed with the X360). I think the problem isn't the price - it's more to do with the games. Microsoft needs to push the console with exclusives - games, we want to play and that are only available on their system. They aren't going to sway any gamers with inferior multiplatform titles. Titanfall is a step in the right direction, but one game isn't enough...

Disagree. I think they have the better next gen exclusive games lineup so far easily, probably not too many on either side would dispute that. It's not like Knack and KZ Shadowfall are highly regarded. And now we have Titanfall which seemingly gets a lot more buzz than Infamous.

I think the principal problems are just two for Xbox. Price and lack of power. Both are likely not insurmountable. The second is fixed but can probably be eventually massaged to the point of (Microsoft would hope) being a relative non-issue. The first obviously is malleable, but there's a lot of dependencies there.

I also actually think, and we're getting into far more minor issues now than the "big two" above, console physical size may have something to do with it. PS4 is a nice, cheaper, small, and more powerful package. That's tough to beat. People are buying PS4 without really caring about the current lackluster games lineup on it. And why not? These days $399 is a borderline disposable purchase imo. People pay $500 for ipad's all the time.

Finally Kinect. It muddles messaging, and sometimes I think it may be a net negative even beyond cost. In other words if it was utterly free to produce, I'm still not sure it's a positive thing. I'm not sure.
 
Because it's impossible that someone would want an xbone and not want TF?

I'm not really into fps, (assuming I actually had the money) why would I wait for a free game I have no interest in?

Yeah I suppose. Do you just get a code? At the least you could sell that. Probably not recoup a full 60 but maybe 40.
 
Because it's impossible that someone would want an xbone and not want TF?

I'm not really into fps, (assuming I actually had the money) why would I wait for a free game I have no interest in?

I have no interest in TF at all. But assuming I was in the market for an XBone I'd wait until the 14th to buy as I am getting ~£30 pounds of the price, a voucher I could flog for £20, and a month of Gold Membership for free. It's a no brainer!
 
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