Or it could be Sony engineers know something you don't.
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
Or it could be Sony engineers know something you don't.
steveOrino
Regular
Correct. DDR4 follows DDR3 path rules but with signaling differences.
Because they cant run in clamshell mode. And if you dont understand the reason for that then I am sure your internet search engine of choice will inform you.
I didn't say it was...
Did you read what I wrote?
They had to put the other half of RAM on the other side due to necessity not aesthetics...ie "clam shell" mode for the GDDR5. This allowed the side benefit of having a less cluttered looking board which is what every SONY fanboy is gushing over...
Yeah I read what you said. Have you read what you all are arguing about? Motherboard design is a matter of function not form. These motherboard might look real clean and pretty if the components were situated by size or manufacturers produced chips in different colors and had the components laid out to spell PS4 or XB1. But when people show off their new hardware to their associates, friends and family, there is no "popping the hood" on a console. Nor are consoles translucent.
Who cares how clean a MB looks? Even if the PS4 had all 16 DRAM chips on the front side, unless it affected performance, why would it matter if the MB looked busier or cluttered because of it.
Look how nice and neat a Wii U motherboard looks. Does it make you want to buy one? Is it some type of statement on how well Nintendo designs a MB or a console over Sony or MS?
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I tried to say what RudeCurve has pointed out already, it's just that I misworded it. By "clean" I meant that while I don't have the memory of an elephant, I was talking from memory.
I remember watching the video I shared in the previous page and how the Xbox One motherboard looked shinier (hence clean) and more sophisticated in my eyes.
Xbox One's quality of materials is where it shines, capabilities wise the console itself is nor here nor there.
As for PS4, like dobwal says the point is that it's a matter of function. Does it work great? Yes, it does. But if you want such a capable hardware for 400€ something has to give in. -headset, materials-
I remember reading sebbbi who said that you could never find hardware as capable as that for 400€. Still 600€ like the PS3 would be more like it, and the PS3's innards were a little more sophisticated than X360's for instance.
I remember watching the video I shared in the previous page and how the Xbox One motherboard looked shinier (hence clean) and more sophisticated in my eyes.
Xbox One's quality of materials is where it shines, capabilities wise the console itself is nor here nor there.
As for PS4, like dobwal says the point is that it's a matter of function. Does it work great? Yes, it does. But if you want such a capable hardware for 400€ something has to give in. -headset, materials-
I remember reading sebbbi who said that you could never find hardware as capable as that for 400€. Still 600€ like the PS3 would be more like it, and the PS3's innards were a little more sophisticated than X360's for instance.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
I'm sure the know a ton I don't. But PCB board layout? That's the kind of thing the junior tech does. The guy who's working on his electrical engineering degree. This isn't some arcane or mystical science, it's the most fundamental level of engineering and it's something that folks with no experience beyond reading comprhension to read the chip layout guidance issued by the fabricator.
So please don't spout "Sony magic", give an engineering reason.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
You think to run in clamshell mode the chips have to be on the opposing side of the board? If so you're wrong. If not, state what you think you know rather than pretending you know and that I should do research to find out.
It's a discussion board. Discuss.
Hmmmm, that's a good point. Not a big fan of Facebook though. I actually prefer Xbox Live for my social interactions outside real life.As i said, embrace as many social services as possible, skydrive would hardly be that.
In order to be a success they (imho) need to publish to facebook and youtube, and downloading and uploading doesn't count
As I said, sharing a video is so easy and quick that there is a small "youtube like" community on the Xbox One already, with sections like featured videos, walkthroughs, help and tips, etc.
I am currently sharing my best plays on sports games with other people and having a lot of fun recording those moments that happen randomly and not even Movie Maker is as easy to use.
I've briefly watched a Twitch video yesterday, because I am a fan of the user in Youtube, where he was playing Age of Empires, but I gotta admit the "New Age" of live streaming videos is just another feature for me. Cool to have though.
I heard Twitch will be on later. After what happened with Twitch on the PS4 it seems to be a service where it's hard to determine what you will find.
Sorry but I don't want to see anyone random naked if I don't love them. Since Twitch doesn't provide me with that, I consider it unsafe.
To me it's important and makes sense in the business thread 'cos I had a Xbox 360 dying on me, without almost any actual use, which is the oddest thing.
3RROD appeared for whatever reason and I hadn't played on it for years ever since I got my HDMI 60GB model and then my Slim model.
Hadn't it been for the 3 RROD the Xbox One could be a super powerful but very unrealiable machine, plus it prevented the Xbox 360 to sell even more.
I wonder what would happen if the 3RROD didn't exist, sales would be crazy.
It's a pretty curious point of view for me. You might have a point there.But the sharing aspects of these new consoles is a real subject to content with. It's like free advertising and they need to get up to speed on that... The number of videos i have shared to my Facebook feed is alot higher than i expected, and i am advertising for the PS4 with each one, and my friends see these awesome games and think... "i need that"*
*Maybe
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Personally, I really highly and extremely doubt that my friends -family, neighbours, and so on- would like to see videos of my best plays and stuff like that.
I created a FB account a bit late, back in December 2011. And my sister told me clearly what's Facebook for and what it isn't for. She didn't force me to act in a certain manner, she was just telling me what works there and what doesn't. She knows her stuff and my very personal experience gives her credit.
To me it is a place where people usually vent their frustrations, like philosophical quotes, share their favourite music and their life events.
If I uploaded videos like that to Facebook I'd immediately download and upload them somewhere else, then I'd delete them --just based on the behaviour people show there, I don't think people would like my videos.
I will never know though.... For me the Xbox One is very useful and helpful in that sense.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
I did PCB layout in college. It will usually be part of any electrical engineering course but isn't a recognised discipline in itself, i.e. there are no qualifications for it. Why? Because it's a fairly basic engineering task and that's why the junior techs in any company will often do it.
We had interns doing this when I worked at BAE Systems.
Wow. Impressive. Thanks for the info.
steveOrino
Regular
Egg on my face then. I was unaware of 32x mode when setting up GDDR5 in clamshell. I apologize for that rude comment.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
You're missing the point, it's not impressive
Like anything, experience makes you better at layout out a PCB but it's really not that complicated.So when people insinuate some mystical Sony insight into doing it I laugh derisively.
I don't know why Sony laid out the PS4 board as they did. I don't know why they decided to put a PlayStation branded screw in the HDD caddy. DrJay24 would probably say that Sony did it for a good reason known only to them
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
No probs :smile:
You're missing the point, it's not impressive
So when people insinuate some mystical Sony insight into doing it I laugh derisively.
I don't know why Sony laid out the PS4 board as they did. I don't know why they decided to put a PlayStation branded screw in the HDD caddy. DrJay24 would probably say that Sony did it for a good reason known only to them
The difference in the board layout is the difference between a very experienced CE company making a product vs a not so experienced company.
Sony have condensed a lot of the power gating and regulators etc into ASICS. MS have coated their MB with lots of singular components. The difference being thermal issues between focused points as opposed to a wide spread.
MS are obviously double paranoid after the issues with the 360 and have done everything they could to ensure its not going to happen again. Even if it requires far more real estate than they need. The upside being that MS will have a lot more leg room to shrink the MB by combining components in ASICS.
Sony have a lot more experience than MS, they know shortcuts and, if you check out the thermal solutions breakdown, are really on the ball with CE product design.
I think the point here is that you hardly became a master of pcb layout or do you consider yourself on the level of the guys that designed the PS4 pcb? It's Clearly a case of more than just a pcb, it was based on case design and most importantly cooling. My guess is that one of the reasons it's how it is, is dictated more by cooling than anything else.
And there is a good reason for putting the chips on the back. For something that is going to be produced in millions like this it can hardly be a accident.
They give the reasons for the two sided PCB in the thermal solution talk. It's all to do with optimal airflow and heat spreading.
That is how i understood it as well, but i wasn't certain based on what i read..
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
The PCB designer won't have an input into choice of components with their electrical and thermal relationships, only their logical layout on the board itself. The components and relationship between them will be agreed by a design team which will usually include at least one member will an electrical engineering degree.
The "shortcuts" as your refer to them are engineering choices by the design team. Using a single large ASIC instead of half a dozen smaller ones, will principally be a cost/thermal/inventory decision. Is it cheaper/easier to have one chip than six? If yes then do that except where your physical design prohibits it. I.e, it's far from ideal to have the chip controlling the Blu-ray drive on the opposite side of the board from that connector. Sure, move the connector - now your ribbons are all 3" longer and more expensive. None of this is decided by the PCB layout guy though.
There's no such thing as a "master" PCB layout guy. Most companies these days will use software to layout the PCB and the software generates the layouts which goes direct to the board manufacturer. Based on the aesthetics, I believe Sony designed their board by hand because no software would output that design. And to be clear, that doesn't make it better than a layout produced by professional software like Cadence or Pads.
I've watched the presentation and nowhere did Isee a reference to the two-sided board!?!
The overview slide from the presentation (below) only references airflow in a single plane and that is above the board. There's no reference to the underside, nor can I see how it's getting airflow down there? The side vents will service any heat generated by the GDDR5 on the underside and that's all you really need.
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salmonfish
Newcomer
Steam Machine vs Xbox One vs PS4
I was researching the differences between all the three of the consoles mentioned above and want some clarification about the specs and more so...the Price. I want to know if my facts are legitimate in this post:
http://hawaiiantoast.com/2014/01/steam-machine-ps4-xbox-one-killer/
I was researching the differences between all the three of the consoles mentioned above and want some clarification about the specs and more so...the Price. I want to know if my facts are legitimate in this post:
http://hawaiiantoast.com/2014/01/steam-machine-ps4-xbox-one-killer/
Do we have confirmation of PS4 clock frequency for CPU and GPU?
