I see your point. But my point isn't that being standard guarantees widespread adoption it just makes it easier or more likely.
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
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I see your point. But my point isn't that being standard guarantees widespread adoption it just makes it easier or more likely.
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Deleted member 11852
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My point is that being standard makes no odds. I give you an abundance of shitty control schemes in a thousand Wii games and the lack of gyro adoption over seven years of the PlayStation 3. What makes the difference is a genuinely useful control scheme. The Atari paddles, the NeGcon (popularised by WideOut), the DAC.
All offer enhanced control mechanics with clear control utility and were adopted by many games right off the bat. They were not some pandora's box of clever technology where the dev had to work out how they could be used unlike EyeToy, Wiimote, DualShock gyro controls, Kinect or Move. Interesting tech but less obvious widespread utility in games - at least based on the past decade.
Either you need more "gaming friends" or you never heard of CHRISTMAS.
What... do you think every one is waiting for a price drop or a game considered to be "special" by the oh-so-wise forum digerati in order to buy a console? You guys take yourselves too seriously sometimes.
The world is not what you argue about online all day.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Here's the rub: MS is going to crank out 800k units per month. Then they're going to price them to sell and bring out desirable content to entice people.
At least 50% of the user base is going to get Live. This means MS can count on a lot of extra revenue to make the price drops palatable.
At least 50% of the user base is going to get Live. This means MS can count on a lot of extra revenue to make the price drops palatable.
And a genuinely useful control scheme means absolutely nothing without userbase adoption. If Valve's Steam box controller ends up being obvious better control scheme than our current console controllers, relatively no one will support if it has no support from gamers.
And stop trying to pigeon hole Kinect as a simple game controller, owning an Xb1 makes it obvious that the usefulness of the Kv2 extends beyond the original vision of Kinect of just having fun flapping your arms and body around in space. Trying to compare it to a Wiimote downplays it utility which has a broader focus than just being a game controller.
I like the fact that Kinect recognizes when I am not holding the controller sp the Xb1 will place the controller in a lower power state in an effort to conserve the battery. Or its ability to dim your TV or display screen when playing a game if you choose to pause and leave the room. I like being auto logged in while I sit down for a gaming session. I like calling out "pick and roll" and learning play names versus facillitating button combinations to initiate plays in nba 2k. I like telling the XB1 to launch a game versus having to navigate the UI.
That experience is Kinect's killer app for me and accommodating such a broad feature set is highly unlikely for a peripheral. And probably the only reason the original Kinect got such support is because it proved to be a popular device in terms of sales which MS felt warranted its inclusion as standard.
Maybe that is one the problems that Microsoft is facing, trying to sell a console on features that doesn't really impress that much.. The things you mention are neat, but hardly ground breaking earth shattering never seen before features.
It's when you come to games it gets interesting, i like the idea of being able to tell games what to do, but it's not something that is unique for the XB1, it may be easier to implement but no one says that these features wont be copied by Sony or Nintendo, if they show themselves as being important. The way Sony implemented Voice control for their PS4 indicates that they are willing and ready to go this route if it gets to be a big deal.
Either you need more "gaming friends" or you never heard of CHRISTMAS.
What... do you think every one is waiting for a price drop or a game considered to be "special" by the oh-so-wise forum digerati in order to buy a console? You guys take yourselves too seriously sometimes.
The world is not what you argue about online all day.
Still, 10 friends that all got the XB1 is pretty impressive, if it's your friend list that now has 10 XB1 then it's something different. How many friends do you know that got the PS4?
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
Developers and users will adopt a genuinely useful control scheme - I've given examples of this happening and also given examples where bundling in control schemes as standard did not result in widespread adoption. If devs can't find a practical use for a control scheme (DualShock 3 gyros), or fight to implement it well (many Wii games), it simply won't take off no matter if 100% of the user base has it. Making something standard doesn't make it useful to everybody.
To you. Not to me. The only value Kinect would have for me is a control system for games. The rest of Xbox One'x vision isn't compatible with my hardware setup (Wii, PS3, PS3, MacMini running XBMC), it can't be the centre of my hardware setup. XBMC is the centre of my media setup. All my music, TV and movies are there and it's my PVR too.
This is great. You are exactly the kind of person Microsoft are aiming Xbox One at. The voice control stuff I can do on PS4 with the tiny free camera that came in my package. I tested it extensively, it's pretty good and I almost never use it - the exception is the Play Room which is a great distraction for visiting kids and makes the camera well worth the £0.00 I paid for it
And this is what sets us apart. I want a game machine for playing exclusive Xbox One games, I don't want an experience. Using and controlling my devices is what I do in those few seconds in-between doing one thing and another. It's a means to an end, not an end unto itself. So the only appeal Kinect has for me is a unique control scheme for games. I'm waiting for that game that can't be done on another platform.
Let's agree to disagree.
As far as I know the PS4 can also launch games via voice commands and use voice commands in NBA 2k. And that doesnt require a kinect or a mandatory camera that costs $100 extra
The PS4 UI is pretty well done so if you have the controller there isn't anything really saved by using Voice control, maybe it changes when i have the same amount of games that i have on the PS3, but the only use i have for the game launch thing is when i show people "look what i can do", the same can be said for Screenshots, it's faster to click the dedicated button for that. The only time where i had the "hey this is neat" is when i got up and didn't have the controller and forgot to switch off the console, i just told it do it
I don't have any games (afaik) that uses voice control for anything so i haven't really tried it.
Maybe we should try and come up with games/uses that would make a difference that would use Kinect/PS Camera.
Monkey Island / Adventure games purely voice controlled with hand gestures when picking up and examining objects..
As far as I know the PS4 can also launch games via voice commands and use voice commands in NBA 2k. And that doesnt require a kinect or a mandatory camera that costs $100 extra
My kids haven't quite got the hang of it yet. They shout things like PlayStation make bacon or PlayStation do boom boom! But they love the playroom and the second screen functionality. Drawing random things and flicking them off the phone so the robots can play with just really amuses them. Not a bad deal for free!
Either you need more "gaming friends" or you never heard of CHRISTMAS.
What... do you think every one is waiting for a price drop or a game considered to be "special" by the oh-so-wise forum digerati in order to buy a console? You guys take yourselves too seriously sometimes.
The world is not what you argue about online all day.
My experience actually mirrors -tkf-'s experience. We might be considered 'hardcore' gamers here on B3d, but among my 'daily realworld friends' (e.g. not buddy lists, forum friends or "facebook" friends), I only count 2 people besides me that have a next gen console, from a list of around 12 friends who play games. The ones from those 12 that do not own a next gen console yet, for all intends and purpose, I guess you would call them 'average consumers' - in other words, the majority of gamers that make up the 80 million userbase of a last-gen platform. They play regularly (anything from once a week to a couple times a month, perhaps with the odd longer game session every now and then), have an interest in upgrading to a newer console, but are more price sensitive because they wouldn't actually go out and buy one, much less be willing to camp out a store to get their hands on a launch edition, unless they really see something they really want.
Maybe it's also an age thing - when I was in my early 20ties, many of those friends who are now "average consumers" would have happily made a run for the new next generation consoles without thinking twice. In fact, the extra PS4 that I had - none of the majority of friends who game regularly actually wanted one tha bad. Doesn't mean they won't eventually end up with one, but most of them tend to have different priorities and are not in that much of a hurry. Good decision IMO too. I recall a lot more fun games for the PS2 launch than I currently have now, and while it isn't exactly collecting dust either, there's still a bigger incentive for me to play on my older console while I wait for more games on the new one.
There have been ~160 million PS360's sold, so 160 million console gamers. There have been about 5 million PS4+XB1's sold. So 3% of gamers have a next-gen console. Therefore, statistically, for one to have 10 current-gen console owning friends, one would need to know about 330 last-gen console owning people. That's certainly possible if one counts online friends where one hangs out with gamers on gaming fora (in which case I 'know' a dozen XB1 owners who are using Kinect and valuing it), but in RL it's highly improbable and you shouldn't be surprised by people's scepticism/curiosity of your circumstances. I'd only expect that sort of high uptake of new consoles among people in the industry who's RL friends are gamers by trade.Either you need more "gaming friends" or you never heard of CHRISTMAS.
What... do you think every one is waiting for a price drop or a game considered to be "special" by the oh-so-wise forum digerati in order to buy a console?
Or they're just rich and buy everything new early, and keep a circle of like minded friends, and don't hang out with many other people. Or whatever. There are reasons to be found, but the point stands, it's not likely a typical representation.
Among my colleagues it has long been Playstation 8, Xbox 360 1, and I had that one 360. Lately (as in the last year or two) the number of 360 owners has actually risen to 4 and the PS3 owners dropped by one or two, but before that, for three years there were 8 people (out of 23) with PS3s, and I was the only one who (also) had a 360.
Right now, I'm the only one with a next-gen system in my circle of friends, family or colleagues that I am aware of (and the Xbox One hasn't even been released yet).
Among my colleagues it has long been Playstation 8, Xbox 360 1, and I had that one 360. Lately (as in the last year or two) the number of 360 owners has actually risen to 4 and the PS3 owners dropped by one or two, but before that, for three years there were 8 people (out of 23) with PS3s, and I was the only one who (also) had a 360.
Right now, I'm the only one with a next-gen system in my circle of friends, family or colleagues that I am aware of (and the Xbox One hasn't even been released yet).
I don't know if this has been discussed, so please forgive me if it has, but "How will the XB1-Kinect experience work within College Dorms? I'm being serious...
I just dropped off my niece's Christmas gift today (PS3, and money of course) at U of M Ann Arbor, and noticed that the rooms are fairly small, no bigger than a typical bedroom housing two students with limited space. Not that I'm shocked by this, but I thought about a blurp on B3D about dorms. Most the students that she knows have PS3/XB360 systems, and her boyfriend has a PS4, coming from PS3/XB360 systems. She stated; He's getting the XB1 next year (2015) once he moves off campus... his room setup isn't spacious enough for K2 to operate properly, he had problems with K1/XB360 dealing with space.
So how does MS go after the millions of college students living on campuses with limited dorm room space, especially convincing them about the Kinect-XB1 experience? How much space is really needed for the Kinect to function properly?
Edit: Hell, I can reach out from her small shared corner desk and touch the 22' inch LCD that's mounted up against the wall. Looks like a jail cell almost... poor baby.
I just dropped off my niece's Christmas gift today (PS3, and money of course) at U of M Ann Arbor, and noticed that the rooms are fairly small, no bigger than a typical bedroom housing two students with limited space. Not that I'm shocked by this, but I thought about a blurp on B3D about dorms. Most the students that she knows have PS3/XB360 systems, and her boyfriend has a PS4, coming from PS3/XB360 systems. She stated; He's getting the XB1 next year (2015) once he moves off campus... his room setup isn't spacious enough for K2 to operate properly, he had problems with K1/XB360 dealing with space.
So how does MS go after the millions of college students living on campuses with limited dorm room space, especially convincing them about the Kinect-XB1 experience? How much space is really needed for the Kinect to function properly?
Edit: Hell, I can reach out from her small shared corner desk and touch the 22' inch LCD that's mounted up against the wall. Looks like a jail cell almost... poor baby.
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You bring up some good points. I'm almost 41. I play games a lot less often than I used for various reasons. Time,marriage, and industry changes -I have had a lot of consoles since my Atari 2600
- but I'm just not an FPS guy. Fighting, adventure, driving, platforming, sports, shoot'em UPS are part of my gaming background so that's what I enjoy. The only modern consoles I haven't had were the original NES, and PS2.I really enjoy the unification of my entertainment through Xbox one which is why it was my first purchase and sits on input 1. My PlayStation 4 whenever I get around to getting on will go on input 3 since it will only be for the bespoke titles in that catalogue.
I think its very grinding to continually hear other peoples use cases "cable cutters" for example as the norm. They aren't within the US at least so to make it seem like some powerful demographic that instantly invalidates the value proposition of xb1 is plainly put stupid. Without using the pass through it just becomes like every other less capable console released before it. Same with Kinect. Or Bluray. Who the eff uses blue ray anymore??? Nearly everyone streams either through nextflix, Hulu, vudu, crackle or pirate sites.
I'd sooner that the xb1 release another sku without blue ray than without Kinect.
Not including wavey Davey or expletive, neither of whom I know personally, but are on my xbl friend list, I have 7 people on my current xblive friend list who own an Xbox one. I see their updates daily. I have other friends from work etc., who bought the console. I had zero influence on their purchases. Hell I just met a cat at the barber shop yesterday who regaled me about the benefits of the Xbox one he just got himself for Christmas and he had no idea who I was or that I was a gamer too. He just liked the shit so much he talked about it. He's about 40 also.
Either I'm lucky (which I'm not) or you guys are looking at it all wrong.
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Interestingly enough I know only two families with a PS4. One of whom also have an Xbox one. The other a PlayStation family to the core. The rest of my friends with PS3s appear to be more price conscious and/or more engrossed in getting the value out of of their current game console so no ps4 for them until this fall.
