Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[ERP]

I think the best case for voice control in the living room is search, including conversational understanding, which can be really compelling if it's done well.
I think it will take people time to get used to speaking to devices especially in shared living spaces, and turning things on and off with a voice command isn't going to be enough to get past that.

 

[dobwal]

Am I the only one that turns down the volume on the TV when I don't want to disturb my significant other? Having to say "mute" or "volume down" defeats the purpose of muting in the first place. Also, voice commands seem like they would only work well for folks living alone - "What did you say honey? What do you mean be quiet. . .how rude!"

=)

At least with a remote there is one point of control. With voice what happens when everyone in the room wants something different?

That said, I can see Kinect based gestures working better but voice control seems like the wrong solution for the living room.

Cheers

Saying "volume down" or "mute" versus letting the volume stay up until you pick up the remote and turn it down manually. I am pretty sure SOs will become acclimated to voice control or spend the rest of the lives going "huh?" everytime their mates uses a voice controllable device.

Its not like voice control solutions won't ever distinguish between voices nor present some sort of hierarchy to manage control.

 

[Arwin]

I use it for setting an alarm on my iPad, It's the only thing that I've found so far that works reliably and is easier than actually doing it. I hold the button for a second or so to activate it, and then say 'set the alarm for 7:30'. It nicely talks back to me to confirm it has set the alarm ('I'e set the alarm for 7:30') and that's it. Very few other applications so far, for instance because most names (I'm Dutch) are misunderstood, and it doesn't understand any Dutch in the first place. For typing stuff, say this post, I use lots of punctuation like the ones in this post and it won't get it. The fact that it has to contact some webservice to understand me also makes it less dependable or consistent. The more text, the longer it takes.

Just for the heck of it, I'll read back the post to the dictation:

I use this for setting alarm on my iPad it's the only thing that I found so far works for tonight and it's easier than actually doing it I hope the bus before second of cents activated and then say set the alarm for 7:30 it nicely to expecting me to confirm it has set the alarm I set the alarm for 7:30 and that's it very few of the application so far princess because most names I'm Dutch I misunderstood and it doesn't understand any touching the first place for typing stuff save this post I use most of punctuation like the ones in this

At this point it just stopped because the inout buffer was full, so now I'll continue after reactivating the dictation

The ones in this post and it one pittance effective has to contact somewhere except so I'm sending also makes it less dependent or consistent more text longer text just about perfect I'll be back to post to detect dictation

Reading that back its worse than I thought, but still, the setting the alarm thing did work.

I do believe in voice controls though, very useful for when you have your hands full, are cooking, whatever - it will get there eventually.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And? Asking "who doesn't not want to be a slave?" isn't going to be underminded by a person saying "I do". I hope we are talking generalities not absolutes.

You've lost me. You asked an explicit question:

Who doesnt like the ideal of going to get a snack or a drink and telling your console to load a game as you pass by and then having it already at the start screen when you sit down with some beer and peanuts?

I present myself as one person answering the affirmative. That doesn't say anything about voice-controls wider appeal or not. Only that your question, to which the answer 'nobody' would prove 100% interest in voice control, actually reveals interest in voice control isn't universal.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Voice commands are far better than sole button persons in many situations...

Right, but what about my example? How do you control volume? Do you give fractional amount, "Xbox, volume down 30%"? Or keeping pushing in a direction? "Xbox volume down. Down more. A bit more. Stop."?

I don't think voice control is a universal replacement. I don't think, "Xbox, change channel, sixteen" is any better than typing 16 on the remote. "Xbox, change channel, BBC one HD" is better, but I consider the improvement marginal. I'm sure a proportion of people will love it, but I remain unconvinced it'll be a ubiquitously preferable feature.

 

[Tap In]

I use voice commands on my phone all the time gotten very used to it

 

[XpiderMX]

I use voice commands on my phone all the time gotten very used to it

iPhone? Android? WP?

Off-topic: Why do you think PS4 will not cost less than $ 500?

 

[Tap In]

iPhone? Android? WP?

Off-topic: Why do you think PS4 will not cost less than $ 500?

Windows Phone, works very well lot's of commands and text translation too

 

[XpiderMX]

Windows Phone, works very well lot's of commands and text translation too

Dictation (SMS) works good for me.

 

[dobwal]

Right, but what about my example? How do you control volume? Do you give fractional amount, "Xbox, volume down 30%"? Or keeping pushing in a direction? "Xbox volume down. Down more. A bit more. Stop."?

I don't think voice control is a universal replacement. I don't think, "Xbox, change channel, sixteen" is any better than typing 16 on the remote. "Xbox, change channel, BBC one HD" is better, but I consider the improvement marginal. I'm sure a proportion of people will love it, but I remain unconvinced it'll be a ubiquitously preferable feature.

Yes, saying "on" will probably be no different than pushing "on" on a remote. The moment you going beyond simplistic demands is the moment voice will trump a remote everytime.

Saying "DVR Game of Thrones series", "show list of all football games on now" or "show scheduled times for The Wire" can't be accomplished anywhere near as fast with a remote. How about seeing Iron Man 3 is now out on DVD/DD and telling the Xbox "Buy Iron Man 3 from video store"? How about Kinect using biometics such as voice recognition and image data to eliminate or reinforce passwords?

This is not saying XB1 will offer any of these features but TV use is trapped in old conventions and traditional practices and can be greatly expanded upon to provide a new experience. However, it will take a product that highlights to the mainstream how archaic the current way of viewing TV has become. I don't know if the XB1 will be that device as MS is not Apple who happens to be way more in touch with general consumers. But I am excited to see MS make an attempt at it and would prefer a console be the device that changes the TV space.

Eliminating the remote, is no different than eliminating physical keyboards from phones and tabs. You can make a good argument how physical keyboards are better, but you can't deny how readily they were dropped and touch based designs were accepted by mainstream consumers.

 

[James Car]

Side note:
What's to stop Sony from integrating the voice/hand interaction with their AVR's? Instead of insta-switching between 2 hdmi's, they could insta-switch with 4+, thus one upping xbone and all while not charging a monthly fee.

/slightly offtopic

I just think the value proposition with xbone is centered around technologies which are easily replicable by their competition (and without the anti-consumer policies).

What's left is a weak version of a ps4 but with the "advantage" of paying monthly fees.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, saying "on" will probably be no different than pushing "on" on a remote. The moment you going beyond simplistic demands is the moment voice will trump a remote everytime.

You've still avoided answering my question about volume.

Saying "DVR Game of Thrones series", "show list of all football games on now" or "show scheduled times for The Wire" can't be accomplished anywhere near as fast with a remote. How about seeing Iron Man 3 is now out on DVD/DD and telling the Xbox "Buy Iron Man 3 from video store"? How about Kinect using biometics such as voice recognition and image data to eliminate or reinforce passwords?

I agree for some folks it'll be better. Never said otherwise. I'm just, again, unconvinced it'll be the ultimate attractive feature. A well designed interface makes searching for videos easy enough, for example. Pulling up a TV schedule, seeing a program you like, highlighting it (with a wave of your hand) and pressing the 'record series' button is hardly a chore. I also don't see remote controls going away with the advent of XB1 because I don't think it'll offer the best interface for some uses. You can actually multitask better doing menial tasks with your fingers while thinking about something else too. As most folk think using their language internally, voice commands require you to think about what you are saying. If someone comes into the room and starts talking, I can answer a question while simultaneously pressing the TV's mute button. That's not a big argument against voice controls. Just another small thing that in my mind shows voice control isn't a huge deal. A marginal improvement for some, a big improvement for others, an irrelevant feature for others. I don't think it's going to be a potent USP or sound basis for the platform's business strategy. If PS4 offers many of the same features without voice commands, I don't think its perception will suffer much.

 

[James Car]

... If PS4 offers many of the same features without voice commands, I don't think its perception will suffer much.

Going one further, pseye looks to integrate mics too. I'm not seeing a reason Sony couldn't offer voice commands as well. Even if it mean partnering with Google/apple to offer the service.

 

[patsu]

A Roku 2 is silent, uses a tiny amount of power, requires no additional paid subscription and is always on so you never have to wait for the thing to boot and launch apps. They can also be had for as little as $60, allow sideloading of homebrew channels and support the SuperHD feeds from Netflix, which the 360 doesn't. That's a lot of advantages.

I can't speak for the Xbox360 but in my opinion, my Roku 2 performs better and more reliably than any of the media apps on the PS3. The Crunchy Roll app is far better on the Roku (both in reliability and usability), the Netflix one avoids much of the aggravating fluff of the PS3 app (and again is more reliable) and the NHL app beats the PS3 one for reliability (though navigation can be slower). It also supports far more media services than the PS3, at least here in Canada.

I would not be surprised if either Sony or Microsoft buy Roku out.

I remember Roku 2 does not support YouTube.

I don't know why NetFlix is unreliable for Canada, but NetFlix, Amazon Internet Video, Hulu Plus and Vudu on PS3 have been kind to me so far. I used to have a little issues with the YouTube app (occasional stutter and "My Favorites" removed) but it's all ok now. You can play video from your cellphone (iOS or Android) to the PS3 Youtube app too.

I also bought an AppleTV to support my PS3 for iTunes and AirPlay media. Some of the early Blu-ray movies have a free digital copy for PSP or iTunes.

I may buy a Raspberry Pi to run XBMC later. It costs $20.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Going one further, pseye looks to integrate mics too. I'm not seeing a reason Sony couldn't offer voice commands as well. Even if it mean partnering with Google/apple to offer the service.

PS3's PSEye supports mics, but the platform ain't doing voice chat. If Sony aren't showing it, they aren't offering comparable competition with MS. Plus they haven't shown TV integration either. We've no idea what PS4's multimedia functions are.

 

[patsu]

I use it for setting an alarm on my iPad, It's the only thing that I've found so far that works reliably and is easier than actually doing it. I hold the button for a second or so to activate it, and then say 'set the alarm for 7:30'. It nicely talks back to me to confirm it has set the alarm ('I'e set the alarm for 7:30') and that's it. Very few other applications so far, for instance because most names (I'm Dutch) are misunderstood, and it doesn't understand any Dutch in the first place. For typing stuff, say this post, I use lots of punctuation like the ones in this post and it won't get it. The fact that it has to contact some webservice to understand me also makes it less dependable or consistent. The more text, the longer it takes.

For speech recognition, my top daily uses are:
* Maps
* Reminder (Setting alarms and appointments). The reminder is amazing because I said, "Remind me to visit my dentist six months from now @ 9 am" and it would get the date and time right.

Just for the heck of it, I'll read back the post to the dictation:

I use this for setting alarm on my iPad it's the only thing that I found so far works for tonight and it's easier than actually doing it I hope the bus before second of cents activated and then say set the alarm for 7:30 it nicely to expecting me to confirm it has set the alarm I set the alarm for 7:30 and that's it very few of the application so far princess because most names I'm Dutch I misunderstood and it doesn't understand any touching the first place for typing stuff save this post I use most of punctuation like the ones in this

At this point it just stopped because the inout buffer was full, so now I'll continue after reactivating the dictation

The ones in this post and it one pittance effective has to contact somewhere except so I'm sending also makes it less dependent or consistent more text longer text just about perfect I'll be back to post to detect dictation

Reading that back its worse than I thought, but still, the setting the alarm thing did work.

I do believe in voice controls though, very useful for when you have your hands full, are cooking, whatever - it will get there eventually.

I don't use dictation. One of my friends were able to dictate an entire email on Siri. Most of my friends would mess up.


I am somewhat indifferent to speech controlled TV because I know my son would find ways to screw it up for me. I also don't watch TV anymore. ^_^

If I want to start the TV and console automatically, I most likely would do it when I enter my garage. By the time I step into the house, I expect everything to be there already. It's one of the reasons I think a personal, hands free speech recognizer may be more powerful. I think the living room has weakened over the years. Heck, I prefer to play games and watch movies in bed these days.

 

[XpiderMX]

If Xbox One end being successful, and Sony do not implement some DRM in games, can't it be harmful for PS4? Xbox One could be preferred by some publishers.

 

[dagamer]

Side note:
What's to stop Sony from integrating the voice/hand interaction with their AVR's? Instead of insta-switching between 2 hdmi's, they could insta-switch with 4+, thus one upping xbone and all while not charging a monthly fee.

/slightly offtopic

I just think the value proposition with xbone is centered around technologies which are easily replicable by their competition (and without the anti-consumer policies).

What's left is a weak version of a ps4 but with the "advantage" of paying monthly fees.

Most people don't have AVRs. They just connect devices directly to the TV. Besides, there are only 3 companies with any amount of voice-recognition experience: Google (home-grown), Microsoft (home-grown + TellMe acquisition) and Nuance (home-grown). Apple uses Nuance but because the processing isn't done locally, you can see the terrible lag time you get from Siri queries compared to Google voice translation which literally orders of magnitude better.

This is a long-winded way of saying that Sony isn't going to develop voice tech just for the PS4.

 

[dagamer]

Right, but what about my example? How do you control volume? Do you give fractional amount, "Xbox, volume down 30%"? Or keeping pushing in a direction? "Xbox volume down. Down more. A bit more. Stop."?

I don't think voice control is a universal replacement. I don't think, "Xbox, change channel, sixteen" is any better than typing 16 on the remote. "Xbox, change channel, BBC one HD" is better, but I consider the improvement marginal. I'm sure a proportion of people will love it, but I remain unconvinced it'll be a ubiquitously preferable feature.

Yes, "Volume down 50%" would work just fine. Nothing special about that. It's not goings to outright replace the remote, but you'll be using it less and less.

 

[dobwal]

You've still avoided answering my question about volume.

My bad. LOL.

You could facillitate volume by simply saying "volume down" and the volume goes down incrementally until you say "stop" that literally the way you use a remote. You press down until you reach the desired level and release. You could use measurement increments, "half", "quarter" and "three quarters" or percentages. You could use terms that are personalized to your vocab but thats a matter of how robust MS or any voice control remote system wants to be.

I agree for some folks it'll be better. Never said otherwise. I'm just, again, unconvinced it'll be the ultimate attractive feature. A well designed interface makes searching for videos easy enough, for example. Pulling up a TV schedule, seeing a program you like, highlighting it (with a wave of your hand) and pressing the 'record series' button is hardly a chore.

There are a bunch of things that are hardly a chore thats gone the way of the dodo.

I also don't see remote controls going away with the advent of XB1 because I don't think it'll offer the best interface for some uses. You can actually multitask better doing menial tasks with your fingers while thinking about something else too. As most folk think using their language internally, voice commands require you to think about what you are saying. If someone comes into the room and starts talking, I can answer a question while simultaneously pressing the TV's mute button. That's not a big argument against voice controls. Just another small thing that in my mind shows voice control isn't a huge deal. A marginal improvement for some, a big improvement for others, an irrelevant feature for others. I don't think it's going to be a potent USP or sound basis for the platform's business strategy. If PS4 offers many of the same features without voice commands, I don't think its perception will suffer much.

Its all hardly a chore. Its not that hard to get up and change a channel or volume. Most of the value of a remote is circumstantial. Being bed ridden or relatively immobile for a short time period make the greatest argument for remotes. However, for most, remotes are for all practically purposes an exercise in laziness.

Tech would hardly move forward if we only adopted solutions that proved better in all circumstances. Are touch based keyboards, LCD TVs and wireless game controllers better in all circumstances. No, the older alternatives have inherent advantages in terms of primary functionality and yet those advantages weren't enough to keep users from migrating to different technology.

Voice allows for more complex gestures without necessarily forcing the users learn more complex button combinations or navigating through a busier and more hierarchical menu system.

P.S

My mother native language is Korean and my step father is from the Netherlands, so Dutch and Korean words are littered throughout our conversation all the time to the point there are some terms I don't know or forgot the language of origin. I turned "doei" into a dutch version of "aloha" when I was young and still use the term when I walk in to greet my father. After being in america for the last 30-40 odd years and regularly speaking english, english pours out both their mouths as easily as their native language. I get cussed out in two to three languages all the time and my skills in both Dutch and Korean are very poor and yet I don't need to consciously translate non english words. Neither do they.