HDMI in could be a waste of space then and nothing can stop competition from using something similar
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
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No argument here. Live sports are pretty much the only Live TV I watch, but...
That's me. Were I to buy an XBOne, I could insert it between one of my PC's and the TV's they are hooked up to, but there's some pretty heavy redundancy between those two devices, so I don't really see the point of doing that. In fact, none of the XBOne's media functions are of any particular interest to me given what my setups are already capable of in that area.
I think MS should just toss in a voucher for one in the box if they are that cheap given how it would make so many of it's primary features more useful to more consumers.
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Based on the popularity of BBC's iPlayer, I'd wager that are a fair few folks who don't need to record locally (and therefore have less reason for a separate box) because they have a fair degree of on demand already through streaming, or just pickup the repeats on secondary channels like ITV+1 and so on.
Admittedly I am not a big live TV watcher but the above more than suffices for me.
Uhh?
Many TV's come with build in DVR via a USB Harddisk you connect to it. And those that use a Cable box (or whatever we should call it) often has the DVR build into that or the service is simply provided by the cable/sat/whatever operator. The brand name selection when it comes to DVR is pretty slim around here, i think there is LG and Samsung.
And as i said, you will have a overlay on most of the mentioned devices, TV's etc when you want to use the DVR, Guide, etc functionality. The XB1 overlay will be an annoyance for many of these devices.
TV in is an additional functionality.
You could plug in your PC, Apple tv, digital receiver or whatever you have to gain overlay functions.
The general benefit is that as many entertainment options as you currently use are all theoretically able to be colocated in a single interface that you can control by voice, button or motion.
If you are a cable cutter, swap between youtube, hulu, netflix, crackle, hbo go and videogames on the fly. Whetever functionality you need for streaming to the device are either there or on the way. Cable card has mostly failed in the US so most people here with 300 million population use a STB of some kind. No need to act like having that capability is an oversight or omission.. in fact its quite the opposite.
HDMI is a global standard on CE devices so saying that allowing for HDMI in is waste seems illogical.Television is simply a tough nut to crack.. which is why no one has done it yet. This is not a bad start.
You could plug in your PC, Apple tv, digital receiver or whatever you have to gain overlay functions.
The general benefit is that as many entertainment options as you currently use are all theoretically able to be colocated in a single interface that you can control by voice, button or motion.
If you are a cable cutter, swap between youtube, hulu, netflix, crackle, hbo go and videogames on the fly. Whetever functionality you need for streaming to the device are either there or on the way. Cable card has mostly failed in the US so most people here with 300 million population use a STB of some kind. No need to act like having that capability is an oversight or omission.. in fact its quite the opposite.
HDMI is a global standard on CE devices so saying that allowing for HDMI in is waste seems illogical.Television is simply a tough nut to crack.. which is why no one has done it yet. This is not a bad start.
HDMI - IN is necessary for MS to enable the functionality they wanted in the planned launch time frame and have it be accessible to the largest number of consumers. It was and is the *only* option. Should the HDMI-In itself no longer be necessary it can be cut out of a future hardware revision and the video compositing features that were added to support it would be neccessary regardless of where the video stream originated (HDMI-in or a network stream).
Also, the competition getting the software right is something that I think you are trivializing. The answer to how MS can stand apart from the competition when they can replicate their functionality is that they need to do it better than the competition. If they don't feel up to that challenge, then they never should have entered the market in the first place.
But the gains from using the HDMI in for anything but tv is.. What?
The only thing I can think of is getting messages, which is much more suitable for my phone than having to power on the xb1.
I am not arguing the benefits, for those that fulfill the requirements both technical and personal. I just see it as a very limited thing outside USA.
What are you going to shout when you have a PC connected through HDMI? XBOX watch PC? You cant control the PC or some other devices in the same way as you can control TV and get menus like demonstrated. And not many people will bother doing that. Its there for the very few that will bother.
Many of these apps will see their way on the PS4 and apparently they make HDMI in less relevant
HDMI is a global standard. The need for HDMI in is not and will not be used if a device can do without it and there is not much of an incentive and a competitive advantage if and when competition can do without it by making the device itself adequate in providing the services to all without the need of another device
I assume Shifty was unfamiliar with the above. I was too, actually, though it doesn't surprise me.
Yes, but Shifty's point was those people would be able to take advantage of the XBOne's HDMI. So you're not really rebutting anything he said with that.
I don't think so. What use cases do you see where you would need to use the overlays from both at the same time? I'm pretty sure the XBOne's ability to interact with the DVR functionality of STBs will be limited if it exists at all.
More accurately, it's a limited thing outside of regions whose dominant broadcast infrastructure doesn't operate within the STB -> TV via HDMI model. I expect this includes regions outside the USA.
No. The common argument is not about how much better MS can do this functionality than others. The common argument is that it is and will be unique to XB1 with the help of HDMI In.
If competition can replicate this TV related function to a wider audience by not requiring secondary devices like a cable box, there is no clear competitive advantage to sell as a unique feature. The fact that competition will be able to do without HDMI is a lost card. Unless competition is so crap that no one will use it except on XB1. If Sony finds an alternative solution such as streaming TV directly on console there wont be much of a difference between the too in that regard. It would be like Sony showing off the HDMI port as something unique to the PS3 and then MS makes a 360 that includes HDMI too.
That's news to me. i've never heard of anyone recording TV from their TV. Never seen it as an advertised feature either.
The answer to "when" is "not today and not in the near future".
It makes zero sense to judge the value of the features of a device that are designed to operate in the current environment based on their value in a potential future environment. Especially when it is known that that devices hardware and software will evolve over time.
And when the XBOne launches it will be.
Yes to a limited market. And unique Temporarily
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Sony have been shipping Bravias for a couple of years with HDDs in. They started in the 'EX' line with the KDL-40EX52H.
The voice control and gestures will have to be a huge hit for people to spend $500 plus XBL subscription to get the X1 over a Roku box, which is as little as $50.
Or Apple TV at $99 which offers integration with iPhones and iPads.
It would have to completely disrupt the physical remote control set up that people have been using for decades. It may prove to be a better experience but will people with little interest in gaming spend that much money to be able to speak commands to your TV?
Plus it's not inconceivable that Roku or Apple or some other company will add voice commands for TV control for a fraction of the cost.
Or Apple TV at $99 which offers integration with iPhones and iPads.
It would have to completely disrupt the physical remote control set up that people have been using for decades. It may prove to be a better experience but will people with little interest in gaming spend that much money to be able to speak commands to your TV?
Plus it's not inconceivable that Roku or Apple or some other company will add voice commands for TV control for a fraction of the cost.
You cant define how "near" this will be either.
Nobody before talked about this feature acknowledging it will be temporarily unique until somebody had brought it into the picture.
To the contrary its touted as something that will be a decisive permanent factor to make a purchase as a first adopter and that will make the XB1 more attractive than competition indefinitely.
Many will make the $500 investment now being sure this will be a permanently unique feature whereas if they knew this wouldnt be the case they would have double questioned the decision. MS are the first movers but only for a handful of people at this point. Would the non gamer spend $500 for it? How about later when it will be cheaper? How about competition? If this is a temporal competitive advantage, down the line the consumer will have to chose between products with almost identical features, with the difference that one will be more powerful and will provide accessibility to a similar feature for a market that is not required to have additional devices. So what will be left? If you want to be myopic and care about the short term its your problem. But for me and many others who are perceiving the consoles as a long term investment and are considering to be early adopters we are factoring that in. The later adopters will respond in accord to the future iterations of the consoles which will be closer in terms of non-gaming features unless MS manages to expand the One through Win 8 apps and Sony doesnt have a similar ability.
How do you define limited? 10's of millions of unique households in the US alone are technically capable of benefiting from these features. Many more than the PS4 and XBONe will sell combined over the next few years.
What's your guess on how long? How many years? How long of a period of time would these unique features have to remain unique to make them a relevant differentiator.
HDMI in through receivers has been the norm. people understand routing their av devices through another system to make controls easier.. the rise of the AvForums website last decade is a testament to people looking for better ways to control and manage their entertainment.
XO is the first device that makes this kind of viewing and input switching seamless... meaning once you connect you cable tv box... everything else you use for entertainment outside of 3D Bluray is already accessible including first class gaming. Its simply a fire and forget implementation which is unique. Apple tv, roku, etc are just another input box with limited functionality. To be really useful you pretty much have to jailbreak em and put xbmc on them.
It remains to be seen but i fully expect that cable companies will also provide digital streams in the near future to all devices which doesnt make the HDMI any worse of a current option.
XO is the first device that makes this kind of viewing and input switching seamless... meaning once you connect you cable tv box... everything else you use for entertainment outside of 3D Bluray is already accessible including first class gaming. Its simply a fire and forget implementation which is unique. Apple tv, roku, etc are just another input box with limited functionality. To be really useful you pretty much have to jailbreak em and put xbmc on them.
It remains to be seen but i fully expect that cable companies will also provide digital streams in the near future to all devices which doesnt make the HDMI any worse of a current option.
