Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[-tkf-]

So the fifa 14 I expected is not looking so certain anymore, and ok, by the time the xb1 is released it might not be so hot anymore.

But Microsoft is really making sure that the faithful preorder people have no idea what just exactly Microsoft actually promised them

It's another mess, good for Microsoft they don't consider it an important market

 

[dumbo11]

However, voice localization is by far the most time-consuming portion to get right.

If it's the non-voice portions that's causing problems then Microsoft is coming off as ludicrously incapable, and I seriously don't believe that.

There's actually a possible answer to this conundrum:
- at E3 the XB1 was going to release in 21 countries. That was announced by 'senior management' and that target would be realistic/achievable.
- after E3 they announced only 13, 5 of those "properly".
- the reason given is '[blah blah] DRM changes [blah blah]'.

But, the localization should have been developed 'side-by-side' with the OS, it didn't need the hardware finished. And there's no way that DRM changes are slowing down localization (different systems, different teams, different problems). So the delay makes no sense, and they aren't incompetent - so why?

Well, one answer that appears to tick all the boxes is that (at E3) Microsoft's voice recognition system was 'cloud based' (either in terms of learning or in terms of the algorithm/database itself). So the DRM u-turn didn't cause a mess, but the removal of 'always online' meant that the XB1 was left without a working command recognition system.

 

[Strange]

Well, one answer that appears to tick all the boxes is that (at E3) Microsoft's voice recognition system was 'cloud based' (either in terms of learning or in terms of the algorithm/database itself). So the DRM u-turn didn't cause a mess, but the removal of 'always online' meant that the XB1 was left without a working command recognition system.

If it doesn't have internet it stops working? I don't think so.

 

[dumbo11]

If it doesn't have internet it stops working? I don't think so.

The XB1 will use Microsoft's cloud voice recognition for advanced features. "play [artist]", "show [my film]" will stop working if the internet connection drops.

My suspicion is that pre-E3, the plan was to leverage that service for common commands - either having the cloud refine the local algorithm, or having the cloud do the voice->text translation. (lag shouldn't be a huge issue either way).

 

[bkilian]

The XB1 will use Microsoft's cloud voice recognition for advanced features. "play [artist]", "show [my film]" will stop working if the internet connection drops.

My suspicion is that pre-E3, the plan was to leverage that service for common commands - either having the cloud refine the local algorithm, or having the cloud do the voice->text translation. (lag shouldn't be a huge issue either way).

Cloud recognition was the plan when I was there, for everything except "xbox on". I suspect that's changed now.

 

[joker454]

Cloud recognition was the plan when I was there, for everything except "xbox on". I suspect that's changed now.

I'm glad you brought this up. I wanted to mention it, but didn't because I realized Shifty would just give me another forum infraction for mentioning Microsoft's vision again. I've learned it's verboten on this forum to dare bring up cloud, always online or Microsoft's vision unless it's in a negative light so I don't bother anymore. The funny part with all this talk of delayed voice recognition, you'd think with Siri being out all this time and how it works that people would add 2 + 2 and get 4 with regards to how Kinect could do it. But alas the vitriol and fud is so thick that people can't see through it. It does make me wonder how much voice recognition has been compromised from their original vision even in the 13 markets it will ship in.

 

[Billy Idol]

But where is exactly the problem?? Siri works with internet (cloud support?) only. The same can be done for the One: if you want voice recognition+ you need a broadband inet connection. Everyone would be d'accord with it, similar to ol Siri.

Where is the problem?

PS: and lol at verboten...would love to hear you guys pronounce it

 

[joker454]

But where is exactly the problem?? Siri works with internet (cloud support?) only. The same can be done for the One: if you want voice recognition+ you need a broadband inet connection. Everyone would be d'accord with it, similar to ol Siri.

Where is the problem?

The problem is designing, scheduling, planning and coding for the internet being there...then it's taken away at the midnight hour. I imagine all hell broke loose behind the scenes when that happened.

PS: and lol at verboten...would love to hear you guys pronounce it

In which dialect? I hear there are many

 

[Scott_Arm]

But where is exactly the problem?? Siri works with internet (cloud support?) only. The same can be done for the One: if you want voice recognition+ you need a broadband inet connection. Everyone would be d'accord with it, similar to ol Siri.

Where is the problem?

PS: and lol at verboten...would love to hear you guys pronounce it

People seem to have a different standard when discussing Internet enabled features on consoles vs other devices. Can you imagine the stories that would be written by the gaming press if they found out voice commands only worked if you had an active Internet connection? They're probably trying to make sure there is a base level of support for voice command locally so they don't get run over the coals again.

Of course, none of that applies to video/tv over the Internet, for some reason.

 

[RobertR1]

MS should have stuck to their guns and drip the information to make their platform standout after soaking up the initial shit storm. Instead, they put their progress on hold to appease a bunch of whiners, most of whom are solidly in other camps anyhow.

That's the biggest mistake MS has made so far. This is where I give Apple credit. When the iphone and ipad were first announced it was "LOL!" city all over the internet by the hardcore crew but Apple basically gave a big FU to them and went about executing their plan. This whole design to appease the masses rarely works.

Instead of a single vision (which could have bombed) we get this franken console that in identity crisis and trying to chase each request.

 

[dumbo11]

People seem to have a different standard when discussing Internet enabled features on consoles vs other devices. Can you imagine the stories that would be written by the gaming press if they found out voice commands only worked if you had an active Internet connection? They're probably trying to make sure there is a base level of support for voice command locally so they don't get run over the coals again.

At a rough guess, a player would pause kinect sports by saying 'xbox pause'...

So all kinect games would need to ship with '* requires internet'?

 

[Scott_Arm]

At a rough guess, a player would pause kinect sports by saying 'xbox pause'...

So all kinect games would need to ship with '* requires internet'?

I think the box was meant to be online only. That's slowly eroded into an offline console.

 

[patsu]

MS should have stuck to their guns and drip the information to make their platform standout after soaking up the initial shit storm. Instead, they put their progress on hold to appease a bunch of whiners, most of whom are solidly in other camps anyhow.

That's the problem. Based on preorder numbers, most of "whom" end up on the other camp after MS's event.

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's the problem. Based on preorder numbers, most of "whom" end up on the other camp after MS's event.

Sony is over a million for PS4 now right? That's a pretty small number. Maybe record setting as a preorder, and safely assumed to be higher than Xbox One, but there is probably some danger in assuming the most rabid of gamers is an indicator for the overall success of a product. Before Wii launched you would have thought the thing was a dead product that would bomb once it hit the shelves, if you'd gone by popular opinion amongst self-described gamers. Now that Microsoft has changed their plan we'll never know how things might have gone if they'd stuck with the online box.

 

[joker454]

I think the box was meant to be online only. That's slowly eroded into an offline console.

Pretty much. Some stuff was easier to rectify. Like killing family plan game sharing, or killing game installs to external hdd's, etc to accommodate the loss of the guaranteed internet connection, those were quick fixes. Some stuff will have to be diluted like voice commands in games, where previously they could have used cloud to process full voice sentences in games without using any local cpu, that's no longer possible so perhaps they can just go back to sticking to basic single word voice commands in games which can be processed all locally on the console without adversely affecting the game too much although most games will likely now just skip voice control entirely under the new rules. Other stuff though like their more elaborate voice commands outside of games I suspect caught them off guard because unlike games they probably didn't want to just cut out most of the voice functionality and make the XB1 be not much more voice advanced than the 360. Maybe that's why they haven't been able to show much of it yet as they have been scrambling to get an alternate solution in place that won't look too diluted from what they had planned.

 

[patsu]

Sony is over a million for PS4 now right? That's a pretty small number. Maybe record setting as a preorder, and safely assumed to be higher than Xbox One, but there is probably some danger in assuming the most rabid of gamers is an indicator for the overall success of a product. Before Wii launched you would have thought the thing was a dead product that would bomb once it hit the shelves, if you'd gone by popular opinion amongst self-described gamers. Now that Microsoft has changed their plan we'll never know how things might have gone if they'd stuck with the online box.

They will have to make their own assessment. If they had not changed, the momentum will just snowball. I did some random checks, even not so hardcore gamers were and some still are staying away from MS. These people don't have PS3.

 

[MrFox]

MS should have stuck to their guns and drip the information to make their platform standout after soaking up the initial shit storm. Instead, they put their progress on hold to appease a bunch of whiners, most of whom are solidly in other camps anyhow.

That's the biggest mistake MS has made so far. This is where I give Apple credit. When the iphone and ipad were first announced it was "LOL!" city all over the internet by the hardcore crew but Apple basically gave a big FU to them and went about executing their plan. This whole design to appease the masses rarely works.

Instead of a single vision (which could have bombed) we get this franken console that in identity crisis and trying to chase each request.

How much userbase would they have lost?
What if MS stayed the course but end up with half the user base, or worse?

I do agree that from the outside their decisions look erratic and aimless, but the biggest mistake was the timing of the decision to change course. Had they done so before E3, nobody would remember anything. It was the worst possible time, the peak of public exposure, when millions of gamers get the first impression. If they had publisher support for their DRM scheme (what gamers hoped or were scared of), it could have worked to get a exclusives and force Sony to backtrack and look stupid... but publishers didn't bite, gamers didn't bite, so changing course was the only reasonable option. It wasn't to appease, it was the market that was moving in that direction.

P.S.: I don't think calling us a bunch of whiners is conducive to a mature exchange of opinions.

 

[-tkf-]

Of course, none of that applies to video/tv over the Internet, for some reason.

Surprise surprise? do you expect to be able to browse the internet when offline?

How about playing a CD? (Plastic disc with lots of holes that ends up being music)

I missed the part about Kinect control being "internet enabled", the only thing Microsoft could tell me was i needed an internet connection to play my disc based game. At least that is what their million dollar PR machine was able to get out in the media.

 

[-tkf-]

most of whom are solidly in other camps anyhow.

The camp of owners right? user rights? ohh you must think that everyone that "whined" about the Always on DRM was Playstation of Nintendo owners right? They must have been busy creating accounts on XBOX forums, hijacking known XBOX owners and basicly creating a shit storm so strong that Microsoft took notice that their user base was in uproar, if anything the wise "enemies" would have kept quiet .

Playstation and Nintendo fans was just having fun , wondering if Microsoft had gone full retard while sharing this over and over again.

TLDR you are simply wrong, unless you can come up with some hard numbers..

I got one hard number for you, 1, me. I got a pre-order for the XBOX1, my first launch XBOX ever thanks to Microsoft getting their insanity in check and making a solid business move.

 

[Bagel seed]

Now that Microsoft has changed their plan we'll never know how things might have gone if they'd stuck with the online box.

It would've been 6:1 or more in favor of PS4, instead of the seemingly ubiquitous 3:1 ratio now.