Blue-ray DVD : Toshiba format approved, Sony format rejected

[chapback]

guess BR ain as cheap as people make off?

and i saya The Committee does knows something, something more that you and i can get from PR talkie talk and tech spechs!

Are AOD discs/lens cheaper, easier to make than BR?

ANYHOW, this quote be interesting

As we've seen with DVD-R/-RW and DVD+R/+RW, the two formats are likely to go head to head in the market, despite the Forum's support for a particular technology. Blu-Ray has not been offered to the Forum as the basis of a future DVD spec., but it will be offered to the market as the next generation of write-once/rewritable optical storage technology.

 

[Vince]

Re: ...

At best, Blue-Ray is going to be nothing but a VHS taping replacement, while HD-DVD will become the primary content delivery format.

What a joke, what an idiot.

EETimes article[/url]]What matters, backers say, is a number of new features they hope to deliver with BD-ROM. Fidler said the proposed HD-DVD format lacks "wow factors," whereas BD-ROM boasts a new copy protection scheme currently in development by Sony, Philips and Matsushita; a Java programming environment; better navigation and graphics capabilities; Internet connectivity integrated into a BD-ROM player for downloading additional materials, including subtitles for foreign-language content; and plenty of room for data storage.

Why do these threads allways remind me of a cesspool? You'd have to be a frickin' moron to support AOD over BD-ROM. If someone offers me a superior product based on superior technology with better future expansion and potential - you expect me to turn that down for a hack (which this is) that panders to some large corperations that don't want to upgrade their inferior infastructure?

Horseshit, this has become nothing more than a proxy conflict for those so inclined to bash Sony, since they have precious little to bash elsewhere. Get a life, prepare to get another foot in your mouth when you're wrong in the end.

 

[chapback]

"Blu-ray will be too expensive for the average user," Peddie said. "The media is too expensive, and it's unlikely many studios will master to it because of the cost and the very low user base."

Hmm...

The six companies that voted "yes" included IBM, Intel, NEC, Time Warner and Toshiba.

 

[Panajev2001a]

IBM does not count too much in that decision as their presence in the CE market is next to nihl.

They have a vote available of course and in that sense their vote can do something.

very low user base

Chap... PlayStation 3 + Blu-Ray ROM = probably quite high user-base for Blu-Ray.

 

[Vince]

The six companies that voted "yes" included IBM, Intel, NEC, Time Warner and Toshiba.

The more you talk, the more we see how little you know and the less we'll pay attention.

As to why you felt compelled to post the obvious reality that horizontal companies the size of an IBM, Sony or Toshiba have pseudo-independant divisions that don't all follow the same micromanagment and agenda just shows how hollow your thought is. This is the status-quo in the buisness world. Perhaps you'll take a buisness class in high-school.

 

[chapback]

Pana...that case, if BR group be relying on PS3 to push BR for em, i be hoping that initial PS3 cost ain going to be high in the Blue skies ( ) for devs and consumers...

Vince...relax bro! Just for laughs with that quote. I know about the whatata tie-ups! Hell we have Sony + Windows, Square + Intel/Nvidia, Sony + Intel, Toshiba + MS, Panasonic + Sony whacaca. I know Vince. I know. Just take it easy.

 

[PC-Engine]

What matters, backers say, is a number of new features they hope to deliver with BD-ROM. Fidler said the proposed HD-DVD format lacks "wow factors," whereas BD-ROM boasts a new copy protection scheme currently in development by Sony, Philips and Matsushita; a Java programming environment; better navigation and graphics capabilities; Internet connectivity integrated into a BD-ROM player for downloading additional materials, including subtitles for foreign-language content; and plenty of room for data storage.

AOD also has a new copy protection scheme and internet downloading capablilities not to mention MPEG4/H264 support. The GUI is trivial.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

You'd have to be a frickin' moron to support AOD over BD-ROM.

So IBM is a moron, MS is a moron, Intel is a moron, and Hollywood executives are morons...

If someone offers me a superior product based on superior technology with better future expansion and potential - you expect me to turn that down for a hack (which this is) that panders to some large corperations that don't want to upgrade their inferior infastructure?

Suppose there is $1 unit cost difference between HD-DVD and Blue-Ray, then how much is the accumulated cost difference in the volume of 100 million units? $100 million. 1 billion units? $1 billion. Obviously, Hollywood studios had every reason to support the platform that would give them the cheapest duplication cost.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

PlayStation 3 + Blu-Ray ROM = probably quite high user-base for Blu-Ray.

This is not even rumored. I don't know where you are getting this stuffs from. Beside, SCEI would be bleeding hundreds of dollars per each PSX3 unit and the last thing they need is an expensive drive. SCEI already sunk in billions into new fabs and don't have the cash to lose on stuffs like drives...

 

[Vince]

Re: ...

You'd have to be a frickin' moron to support AOD over BD-ROM.

So IBM is a moron, MS is a moron, Intel is a moron, and Hollywood executives are morons...

No, their smart - but their not the consumers I was talking about. They are massive corperate entities that value the almighty profit margin over providing the consumers with a superior product.

Saying Hollywood Execs only helps my point actually. Oh well, a master debater can't win them all.

Suppose there is $1 unit cost difference between HD-DVD and Blue-Ray, then how much is the accumulated cost difference in the volume of 100 million units? $100 million. 1 billion units? $1 billion. Obviously, Hollywood studios had every reason to support the platform that would give them the cheapest duplication cost.

Exactly, and I don't give a shit about their costs nor their infastructure. I, as the consumer, want the product that is the most superior for myself, not some fat-ass buisnessman's ability to put a bigger number on his SEC filing and another Benz in his garage.

As for why you, the consumer, want an inferior product is beyond me. Which is why I said you'd have to be a moron - and that still stands.

You know, if we just mass produced 12" black & white TVs - I'm sure they'd be super cheap by now and would have let the manufacturers keep their infastructure alot longer. But, personally, I'd rather splurge on the extra few bucks and get the better technology.

 

[chapback]

splurging more for better tech? meaning my Vincey bro, be loving Microsoft Xbox the most out of 3 consoles? in fact you ain need to splurge more for better 3D in this case!

another guy on my Xside. i knew you wouldnt disappoint me bro.

+1 MS!

hey good pc-engine, you be knowing the estimated cost of average AOD player + disc?

 

[Vince]

the vincey bro, meaning you be loving Microsoft Xbox the most of 3 consoles?

Chap, When I can get the same games, features, and gameplay mechanics for XBox, I'd love it.

The crux of my argument is that I - as the consumer - want the best platform for my money, not some developer who has to work harder, not some buisnessman who wants a raise... me.

This is perfectly accruable to my position wrt PS2/Xbox/Cube in which I want the platform that provides the best solution for the consumer. Which I think we can establish as the PS2 - regardless of if the Cube is the most profitable for some corperate suits or the XBox has graphic superiority.

With XBox, just like if we support AOD, I won't be able to get the superior assets listed above that are found on another platform because of compatability differences. Similarly, if you support AOD you won't get features like 'Java programming environment; better navigation and graphics capabilities; Internet connectivity integrated' in it because you're supporting a bullshit/halfassed format - just like XBox.

Next time, try to think the argument through...

 

[Vince]

Re: ...

PlayStation 3 + Blu-Ray ROM = probably quite high user-base for Blu-Ray.

This is not even rumored. I don't know where you are getting this stuffs from.

Sony Dream World 2002: Blu-Ray disc to be in PS3?[/url]]In short, the Blu-Ray disc players were seriously sexy pieces of kit. They looked like the business. The technology is fantastic. The useability and feature set extensive. And it records. Are we going to see this in PS3? The Sony R+D manager at the booth indicated that it was the front runner internally. A creator'a pride, or wishful thinking? After seeing it first hand, we think Sony should give it serious consideration.

Why do you even talk in such a manner? Seriously - you have no clue. And without invoking your amazingly 'accurate' past history of prediction...

 

[chapback]

But Vincey bro, arent you just listing the hardware superiority of BR over AOD? Nothing to do with content i see.. you said it yourself, i love my tech, i be loving to spend!

I think if more devs support Xbox, console gaming today would be prettier and coolier.

I know you the hardware lover be loving Xbox power, dont let the other Sony side in you stop the loving!

ANYWAY, if Hollywood execs be loving the cost effective compatible effective AOD over the yadayada BR tech, i think BR be harder to go over yet again. Actually it be like PS2(AOD) vs Xbox(BR) ! I hope DVD dont be turning into another "console" war!

 

[bigbud120]

Just a bit of additional info and some opinions.

• Blu-ray was never proposed to the DVD Forum. The Blu-ray companies feel that because it is new technology, the companies that developed the technology should receive licensing money instead of the DVD Forum.

The reason that Toshiba and NEC developed AOD was so that they could continue receiving licensing money into the next generation of products.

• The movie studios haven't made deals with either format. They will release their movies on which ever format has the bigger user base.

Now the opinions.

- I doubt that PS3 will use blu-ray for games. It would probably be too expensive at the time that PS3's release is scheduled. It's possible the they will bring out a PSX version of PS3 that includes a blu-ray movie player though.

- I blame Toshiba and NEC for the inevitable format war. I agree that the companies who developed blu-ray should be entitled to the licensing money and not the DVD Forum. To keep the money rolling in at Toshiba and NEC they have created their rival format (AOD).

I will buy which ever format comes out on top, but if that format is AOD, I won't be buying my player from Toshiba or NEC.

 

[chapback]

The movie studios haven't made deals with either format. They will release their movies on which ever format has the bigger user base.

That right. one reason why i am hurhur about all these next gen DVD talk. Its so quiet on that front. IIRC back in the pre DVD days, there were big hohoho talk about DVD being the next big thing and big it did become. Now its just a splutter of BR news here and a dripdrop of AOD there and more voting spoting.

I guess this format war is taking its toll.

PSAOD2 vs BXrbox!

 

[PC-Engine]

I'd also like to emphasize the importance of MPEG4/WM9/H.264 which is the ability for HD movies to use the same red laser DVD-9 media we have today like the T2 Extreme Edition HD-DVD. I as a consumer am interested in watching HD-DVDs and if the movie studios like the AOD/HD-DVD format better because it's cheaper for them to produce then I have no problem with that. I have little need for an MO drive that can't play movies except for home videos.

My prediction in chronological order:

1. Dual layer recordable DVD-9 red laser drives available next year using existing MPEG2 codec like current recorder/player combos.

2. Addition of MPEG4/WM9/H.264 decoders in regular DVD players for watching HD red laser based movies that will slowly be released.

3. New recorder/player based on number 1 (red laser) but with the addition of MPEG4/WM9/H.264 codec support so consumers can record 2.5 hours of HD content on blank dual layer DVD-9 media.

4. Full blown AOD blue laser players and media.

5. Full blown AOD blue laser recorders/players and media.

 

[Vince]

But Vincey bro, arent you just listing the hardware superiority of BR over AOD? Nothing to do with content i see..

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the <shock> icon is from when you came to the realization that I can't talk about content as the damn things don't exist and as such can't have content.

But, any intelligent person can see that on equal footing BD-ROM has the potential to have more advanced and more diverse content and connectivity than AOD by design (eg. technology and implemenation). Plain and simple.

I think if more devs support Xbox, console gaming today would be prettier and coolier.

OMG! Is geniuz, is teh insipr3d text from God!

I know you the hardware lover be loving Xbox power, dont let the other Sony side in you stop the loving!

The power of XBox? Right...

ANYWAY, if Hollywood execs be loving the cost effective compatible effective AOD over the yadayada BR tech, i think BR be harder to go over yet again. Actually it be like PS2(AOD) vs Xbox(BR) ! I hope DVD dont be turning into another "console" war!

Wow, and I had such hope that the retarded talk ended when you said, "Anyway.." as if you'd bridge across to some coherent line of thinking. But, lets go over this:

• BD-ROM will be accepted by the hardware manufacturers, not the Hollywood Execs.
• PS2 (AOD) vs XBox (BR)? How shallow is this thinking - this whole, "AOD is inferior like PS2 and BD is superior like XBox"... it's embarrasing.

It's just as easy to look at it from a corperate standpoint where you see BD-ROM being supported by the major CE corps (just as PS2 was supported by the big Dev houses and Publishers) and AOD is this PC-acrry over technology that's weak on powerful CE backers.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Re: ...

PlayStation 3 + Blu-Ray ROM = probably quite high user-base for Blu-Ray.

This is not even rumored. I don't know where you are getting this stuffs from. Beside, SCEI would be bleeding hundreds of dollars per each PSX3 unit and the last thing they need is an expensive drive. SCEI already sunk in billions into new fabs and don't have the cash to lose on stuffs like drives...

Vince provided the needed link and regarding the cost... can you tell me why a PlayStation 3 with a single laser reading Blu-Ray Read-Only discs, DVDs and CDs would be soo expensive... so much more than AOD ?

With the casing argument lost by the AOD side, the difference in price from AOD and Blu-Ray as far as discs themselves are concerned should be quite small, well worth the extra 10-15 GB you get.

Also it is clearly easier to stuff pre-recorded content in H.264 and have PlayStation 3 ( or whatever is the used chipset ) do software decoding of the H.264 compressed stream than for an AOD based console to further expand its space for movies.

Games would not have to come all in Blu-Ray discs: after-all there have been quite a few ( quite a lot actually ) of PlayStation 2 games released on CDs.

I expect to see PlayStation 3 games on CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray Read-Only discs.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'd also like to emphasize the importance of MPEG4/WM9/H.264 which is the ability for HD movies to use the same red laser DVD-9 media we have today like the T2 Extreme Edition HD-DVD. I as a consumer am interested in watching HD-DVDs and if the movie studios like the AOD/HD-DVD format better because it's cheaper for them to produce then I have no problem with that. I have little need for an MO drive that can't play movies except for home videos.

My prediction in chronological order:

1. Dual layer recordable DVD-9 red laser drives available next year using existing MPEG2 codec like current recorder/player combos.

2. Addition of MPEG4/WM9/H.264 decoders in regular DVD players for watching HD red laser based movies that will slowly be released.

3. New recorder/player based on number 1 (red laser) but with the addition of MPEG4/WM9/H.264 codec support so consumers can record 2.5 hours of HD content on blank dual layer DVD-9 media.

4. Full blown AOD blue laser players and media.

5. Full blown AOD blue laser recorders/players and media.

In other words, you would have to change the drive 4-5 times... and you could have just bought one single Blu-Ray player