Blu-ray will not matter...

[Phil]

Actually, what happened this gen is there was a base platform (PS2) which was the lower spec version, however all the games were diesigned for it. Meaning the vast majority of XBOX ports did next to nothing to anything to take advantage of the system. And CERTAINLY did not create any new content.

It makes sense that 360 will be this base platform for the coming generation. easier development tools, cheaper development lifecycle, and largest installed base.

Wrong - PS2 was the primary development platform because for the most part, it offered at least a 400%+ larger userbase which means that the success and revenue potential is/was much higher.

 

[Dregun]

I would think the advantage of larger storage space (BR) would be a huge advantage for any system.

Another poster mentioned the ability to store multiple titles on one BR. While that sounds pretty far fetched given the nature of the gaming industry wouldn't it be possible for a publisher (Atari, EA..etc etc) to release multiple titles on one single Disc that could be unlocked through online payment?

Imagine buying Madden 2007 for $60

Then loading up the game and being told that this disc has 4 other games on it that you may purchase and unlock right online, without leaving your home.

Madded 2007 - Paid for
NBA Live 2007 - 50us
Need For Speed: Most Wanted 2 - 50us
Battle Field 3 - 50us
Random EA Game. -50us

Now lets go one huge step further. Sony decides that all games should be released on the same day every month. If a game isn't complete enough to meet that months deadline it gets pushed back until the next month (Sony inserts quality control of titles!!!)..so on and so forth. Once you "register" your newly acquired PS3 you automatically get a free subscription to PSM magazine that also includes one (Possibly 2) BR discs. You recieve the magazine 2 days before those games become "Live", allowing you to pre-order/purchase those games long in advance. Once 12am "Game Day" arrives those games are now fully playable because your console already activated that game for you if you pre-ordered, or you can activate those games online anytime after those games are live. If for a present your parents..cousin..sister..ect ect wants to buy you a game for christmas they can pay to have your console activated by paying for a "Game Card" (almost like a credit card) that you enter the numbers into your console and the game is now activated.

In the example above this would prove benificial to the publishers since they complain about advertising and packaging costs. Instead of plastering video game stores and multiple magazines with promotional material they now have a media that EVERY PS3 owner sees for advertisement. The consumer benifits because this would lower costs and give them something functional for those costs that they had to pay for anyways..they get a magazine with game reviews...previews..walkthroughs..cheats..ect ect. Instead of a game costing 60us it could potentionally be cut down to 40us per game and everyone including the publisher would benifit. Publishers are garunteed perfect exposure to the owners of PS3's while the consumer gets reduced costs and ease of use. We already pay for the advertising, why not make that money worth while instead!

If you take the idea I stated above and combine it with the reply to this post I made..
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=619805#post619805

The consumer could deactivate a game, get reimbursed a certain amount for it and unlock another game they want all within just a few minutes. Costs of games goes down, exposure goes up and consumers are left extremely happy. Developers can't complain about used games hurting sales because they no longer exist. If consumers can buy a new game for the current "Used" game prices and have those games within seconds why would we as consumers complain about paying full price? Developers could then initiate "Greatest Hits" much like they do now and games are reduced without new packaging. A simple one page layout in the PSM magazine would let everyone know what games are now Greatest Hits and what disc number that game is on.

Something like above needs to happen, our current way of getting content isn't working and the only other solution requires expensive internet connections that quite frankly are very far off in the future. This solution offers the best of both worlds, you get the content instantly without even having to leave your house, while still maintaining a hard copy that you "Own". For those who are concerned about borrowing out your games thats not a problem. You could instantly transfer the title "activation" to a friends console via the internet and the game is deactivated for your console and activated for his/hers. Now your friend can't scratch up your disc and ruin it..he can't steal it from you..you set a time limit his console can use the game for and after that time his is deactivated and yours is reactivated. In essence one could potentially have a group of friends that borrow games from eachother in such a way that you could play a game they are not playing at the moment for however long you or they want and then play a different game of thiers. Blockbuster could as well do online renting of video games that you pay your fee of 5us and after 2 days your game is deactivated. Hmmm..developers could rent the games directly to the consumer as well through this proccess, allowing thier customers to rent the game directly from them or purchase it for indefinate use...way to many things can be done!

The possibilities are HUGE, if only Sony would institute it I would be in gaming heaven.

Dregun

 

[seismologist]

^^^ That idea is actually pretty brilliant. You need to send that to EA, I'm sure they'd go for it

 

[tema]

XPCU has to waste more cycles decompressing data on a tightly packed DVD.

 

[EndR]

XPCU has to waste more cycles decompressing data on a tightly packed DVD.

That is the question.. does it really have to? I mean, if devs makes games with the DVD in mind, then maybe they "prefer" to put it in multi-discs than use cpu-cycles for decompression.

(and as I said, 3 out of 4 platforms are DVD-based and this will be taken in consideration regarding multiplatformgames.. I know that PS3 can use DVD as well)

OTOH, there will be games were compression/decompression will use cpu-cycles.. of course... but I don´t think that BRD will have the effect of making devs use cpy-cycles to decompress on 360 "just because". If it can be solved with several discs, then maybe that will be the solution. It all depends on the game...

 

[Nicked]

That is the question.. does it really have to? I mean, if devs makes games with the DVD in mind, then maybe they "prefer" to put it in multi-discs than use cpu-cycles for decompression.

Well, that increases publisher costs, which is a big no-no.

Also your "3 out of 4" doesn't cut it. Revolution isn't in the same category as these consoles, I doubt Madden 2007's size on Rev will have an effect on the other versions. Now we're at 2/3. But wait a minute, PC games are installed to the hard-drive with very tightly packed data, a 20gig game will feasibly fit on 1 DVD but clearly isn't suitable for real-time streaming off the disc. Now we're at 1/3, the X360 is at a disadvantage!

 

[_xxx_]

Sony has a vested interest in making sure that BR succeeds as a format (movie format especially) -- I believe they are going to be raking in a rather large portion of the royalties on each BRD pressed.

If BRD catches on (which they want to make sure of) then they stand to gain a lot.

The losses initially on putting a BRD in a console are going to be peanuts compared to what they stand to gain over the years on movie sales and whatever other uses are found for it.

You all seem to forget that Sony owns like half of the whole entertainment industry. So it might very well suffice even if it's just them pushing it IMHO.

EDIT: a few bits, but there are countless "smaller" companies underneath as well:

In 1988, Sony acquired CBS (Columbia) Records Group from CBS. It was renamed "Sony Music Entertainment".

In 1989, Sony acquired Columbia Pictures Entertainment from Coca Cola for US $3.4 billion. It was subsequently renamed "Sony Pictures Entertainment" in 1991.

In 2000, Sony had sales of US $63 billion and 189,700 employees. Sony acquired Aiwa corporation in 2002.

Sony also owns television channels in India and channels aimed at Indian communities in Europe.

On July 20th, 2004, the EU approved a 50-50 merger between Sony Music Entertainment and BMG. The new company will be called Sony BMG and will, together with RIAA partner Universal, control 60% of the world wide music market.

On September 13th 2004 a Sony-led consortium finalised the deal to purchase famous film studio Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer for about $5 Billion, including $2Bn in debts.

 

[MasaC]

I would think the advantage of larger storage space (BR) would be a huge advantage for any system.

Another poster mentioned the ability to store multiple titles on one BR. While that sounds pretty far fetched given the nature of the gaming industry wouldn't it be possible for a publisher (Atari, EA..etc etc) to release multiple titles on one single Disc that could be unlocked through online payment?

Imagine buying Madden 2007 for $60

Then loading up the game and being told that this disc has 4 other games on it that you may purchase and unlock right online, without leaving your home.

Madded 2007 - Paid for
NBA Live 2007 - 50us
Need For Speed: Most Wanted 2 - 50us
Battle Field 3 - 50us
Random EA Game. -50us

That is an excellent idea and possibly a huge advantage for the BD format as far as gaming is concerned. This is especially true if multiplatform games are targetted to fit on the DVD format since that means there will be room for 5-9 (single / dual layer) DVD-sized games on a dual layer 50 GB BD-rom. I can easily see the big publishers like EA and Ubi Soft jump all over this. I just hope the lads at Sony are smart enough to incorporate an online payment system on Playstation Network (or whatever Sony's online gaming / community service will be called) in collaboration with said publishers.

 

[Gholbine]

Games like GTA will suffer to the point of ruin by a limited disc format like DVD-9. Swapping discs in a GTA game is not really an option, and squeezing that data onto a DVD is either A) not possible, or B) would require extreme amounts of compression. Such compression would ruin much of the streaming capabilities of the system, and to counter this, sound and texture quality would have to be reduced.

I'm strongly of the opinion that Blu-Ray is the defining feature of the Playstation 3, for games and movies. The advantage for movies is quite obvious, supporting 1080p over your standard 480p that DVD offers (completely ignoring ugly upscaling). But games is where Blu-Ray will deliver the killing blow, IMO. Multiple discs are nowhere near as viable as they used to be. These days, games rely on massive open-ended worlds where multiple discs would ruin the entire philosophy of the game: being able to go anywhere quickly and easily. Back in the day, a game like FF8 had no problem utilizing multiple discs, simply because all the backgrounds were just 2D renders, and the entire game world would fit easily onto a single CD. This is not the case now, or in the next generation, since the worlds are massive, 3D, high-res texture-rich environments that would consume massive amounts of space. GTA is the quintessential example, and with DVD, I don't think it's possible to the level it is with Blu-Ray.

That's just my take, anyway.

 

[McHuj]

we didn't switch from LPs to cassette and then CDs because they sound better (for those that don't know LPs offer a wider range of sound than either cassette or CD),

LPs do not offer a wider range of sound. They have smaller dynamic range compared to a CD and have a have a nonlinear response in the audio band whereas CDs are flat in the 20-20k range.

People mistake distortion for sounding better. The nonlinear response of the LP introduces pleasant resonant distortion that is pleasing to the human ear. So I guess you could say LPs sound "better", but they do not sound indentical to the original source.

 

[EndR]

Games like GTA will suffer to the point of ruin by a limited disc format like DVD-9. Swapping discs in a GTA game is not really an option, and squeezing that data onto a DVD is either A) not possible, or B) would require extreme amounts of compression. Such compression would ruin much of the streaming capabilities of the system, and to counter this, sound and texture quality would have to be reduced.

I'm strongly of the opinion that Blu-Ray is the defining feature of the Playstation 3, for games and movies. The advantage for movies is quite obvious, supporting 1080p over your standard 480p that DVD offers (completely ignoring ugly upscaling). But games is where Blu-Ray will deliver the killing blow, IMO. Multiple discs are nowhere near as viable as they used to be. These days, games rely on massive open-ended worlds where multiple discs would ruin the entire philosophy of the game: being able to go anywhere quickly and easily. Back in the day, a game like FF8 had no problem utilizing multiple discs, simply because all the backgrounds were just 2D renders, and the entire game world would fit easily onto a single CD. This is not the case now, or in the next generation, since the worlds are massive, 3D, high-res texture-rich environments that would consume massive amounts of space. GTA is the quintessential example, and with DVD, I don't think it's possible to the level it is with Blu-Ray.

That's just my take, anyway.

One possible solution could be a drastic one. GTA for 360 could be released with 2 discs. One with the game and the otherone with the music.

The downside is that this requires the HDD (if you want to listen to the music). OTOH, you could connect your mp3 player to it an listen whatever you want. So by taking out the music from the gamedisc and store it on another discm you could use that space for game-content.

But this is waay to drastic and will not happen...

 

[_xxx_]

LPs do not offer a wider range of sound.

By being analog, they do. More than what you can do with 16-bit for sure.

So I guess you could say LPs sound "better", but they do not sound indentical to the original source.

Neither do CD's or cassettes But who says that LP's sound better? That's ridiculous.

 

[avaya]

You all seem to forget that Sony owns like half of the whole entertainment industry. So it might very well suffice even if it's just them pushing it IMHO

Indeed. I was a little shocked when I learned of just how much stuff Sony has its mitts on.

• Our film business had the top box office receipts the past three years in a row.
• With MGM, we distribute the world’s largest film library, accounting for roughly half of all Hollywood color films.
• We have the largest digitized, HD-ready library of film and television content.
• Our global music assets, including our number one Sony Music Japan, comprise the world’s largest music business.
• We are number one in digitized music sales.
• We have the world’s number one console games business.

http://www.sony.com/SCA/speeches/051004_stringer.shtml

 

[EndR]

Indeed. I was a little shocked when I learned of just how much stuff Sony has its mitts on.

they have all that but still have one of the worst margins ever. Revenue of about 60 billion dollars, profits in the 1 billion area, SCE contributing with almost half of those profits..

nonetheless, they do have their hand in lots of cookie-jars..

 

[Phil]

One possible solution could be a drastic one. GTA for 360 could be released with 2 discs. One with the game and the otherone with the music.

The downside is that this requires the HDD (if you want to listen to the music). OTOH, you could connect your mp3 player to it an listen whatever you want. So by taking out the music from the gamedisc and store it on another discm you could use that space for game-content.

lol. No self-owned music beats GTA's chatterbox though.

---

No seriously, I think this whole argument on DVD vs Blu-Ray is kind of stupid really. Obviously, Blu-Ray holds the greater potential thanks to its much larger storage that can either reduce expensive seeks and offer more content. If it's used is a whole different argument. Developers will be fine for the most part with less space because they'll find ways to deal with it. The only problem I see, and this is Blu-Ray biggest strength, is if PS3 ends up the dominant console as PS2 has been this generation, I could see a large part of 3rd party developers making PS3 their primary platform and with that, use its potential advantages (which would be at the very least the storage space). The problem is when they would actually port their game over to Xbox360 that they could end up with some added problems of having less storage space which would either a.) add porting costs or b.) eliminate the chance of a port all together if it happens to be too challenging. The other alternative situation would be that many 3rd party developers would not take advantage of the Blu-Ray medium to make their games more "port-friendly" and avoid those problems. If PS3 ends up being the very dominant console though and coppled that programmers in general happen to be lazy when it comes to space, I could see them using quite a bit of the storage Blu-Ray offers.

 

[avaya]

they have all that but still have one of the worst margins ever. Revenue of about 60 billion dollars, profits in the 1 billion area, SCE contributing with almost half of those profits..

nonetheless, they do have their hand in lots of cookie-jars..

Yeah, It tells you just how much of a mess the firm has been in for the past couple of years. With the assets and resources they have their performance is abysmal. CE is the problem though (75% of revenues).

 

[Carl B]

It's in these next few years though where their diversified and varied assets could really start paying off though. The blu-ray battle is a clear poster-child for how Sony can begin to leverage it's varied properties to help lift the company as a whole.

I'll be interested to see what CES is like for them, even exclusive of any PS3 information.

 

[Powderkeg]

You all seem to forget that Sony owns like half of the whole entertainment industry. So it might very well suffice even if it's just them pushing it IMHO.

EDIT: a few bits, but there are countless "smaller" companies underneath as well:

Sony can push all they want. It makes no difference if no one is buying, and just because the PS3 includes a Bluray player doesn't mean people are buying into Bluray when they get one.

The DVD movie industry is in a major slump right now. People aren't buying very many movies anymore. Sony is going to introduce a format that only a fraction of the people can even use into a market that isn't even buying what is out there right now. That's a formula for major money loss.

And subsidizing Bluray via the PS3 may be a huge mistake. If the movies don't sell well within the PS3's lifecycle then Sony may have thrown away all of that extra money they spent by including the drive in the PS3. It may very well turn out that Bluray doesn't begin to really have a major impact until after the PS4 is released.

 

[Geo]

Seems like a reasonable risk to me, and a decent way to spend promotional money --getting those drives into consumer hands at a significantly less cost. Just feels like good synergy. It may go to sh*t, of course --sometimes these things do. But their bet on BRD itself can't be small either, so it looks like very reasonable synergy to me.

 

[Brimstone]

I'm against both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Both formats are short sighted. Stockholders in the movie industry are worried about DVD sales growth flatening so they are throwing out a new format as fast as they can to get consummers to fork out more money. They don't care at all about loading times in games, and why should they because all they want is a format that plays HD movies.

Optoware, the company formed by Sony's best optical engineering talent, created HVD which is far superior to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. They just need to work on making the costs of dics cheaper.