"Blu-ray support a last minute switch, Microsoft says..."

[Alpha_Spartan]

You need a mighty big harddrive if you are going to stream all (or even most of) your HD-DVD collectiom, plus music and photos, and the Windows Vista OS plus all the other software.
Don't see this happening anytime soon, even today with DVD's and 260Gig HD I couldn't fit quarter of my DVD collectio to my server. Sure I could buy four 260Gigs... but I really don't want to... or see the need to. If I had the need to view the discs in different rooms apart from my main HT room, I'd probably just buy additional players. Rarely do I need to view the same film in two rooms at the same time, and I really don't believe many consumers do.
So, the authorized copies point... mostly good just for making illegal copy(copies?) to your friends.

Never really got it what's really the whole point of hybrid discs.
I don't want some hybrid discs. Maybe because I'd likely to be an early adopter, so I'd only buy the non-hybrid versions anyway. Guess this is more for those who feel unsure of the formats future support, or haven't yet decided to buy a HD player for years.
Anyway, these hybrid discs are just a compromise in quality over full blown HD-DVD discs.

If significant, that's good. Lower prices are always good. It's just that these lower production costs don't necessarily reflect into the consumer prices, just that they are more productive to the studios.

As pointed out already in previous posts, this is basically a lie.


??? what exactly does that mean ??? I really don't know much about the interactive features and what they support and what not, but isn't it up to the disc autor to decide which interactive features will be on the disc, If that "talking head commentator" was a "key Feature of HD-DVD" and an "option" on Blu-ray, does that mean that every HD-DVVD will have that "talking head commentator" or some other function using iHD, while only the Blu Ray discs that the autor cdecided to use the similar feature, will have that interactivity??

In short, who gives a damn what you want. I'm not being rude, but realistic.

 

[mckmas8808]

Labratory results are NOT indicative of real-world products and possibilities. There's all sorts of amazing things developed in labratories that never see the light of day, simply because of technical difficulties, costs, production issues, and all sorts. A lab or promotional presentation shows the current state of experimental work. Unless they explain costs, yields, overheads and so forth, it only shows that said product is technically possible. Not whether it's commercial viable or not.

Shifty you seem to be a reasonable man so let me ask you this.

1. So lets say that many companies from around the world show off their Blu-ray products at a big show event right.

2. They give demos of the real products and have write ups on what the actual product right in front of them do.

3. These plenty of different companies have similar Blu-ray technology have have stated estimated release dates.

Should we

A.) Not believe them even when they show cased the working product in front of real live people.

B.) Take a wait and see approch until we see the actual products on Best Buy and Circuit City floors.

C.) Believe that when they do launch those products presented months in advance will actually come out.

 

[Acert93]

Labratory results are NOT indicative of real-world products and possibilities. There's all sorts of amazing things developed in labratories that never see the light of day, simply because of technical difficulties, costs, production issues, and all sorts. A lab or promotional presentation shows the current state of experimental work. Unless they explain costs, yields, overheads and so forth, it only shows that said product is technically possible. Not whether it's commercial viable or not.

All these press releases are the same. They give a lop-sided presentation of factual data but they cannot be relied upon to give the whole picture. When the press release says '4 layer BluRay discs are being printed for 10 cents each' it may be happening, but when they say 'we have 4 layer BluRay discs' it means they have one, and maybe it cost them $400 to make excluding other costs.

You should never exclude one point of view. Rather then not believe the HDDVD FUD, read it and appreciate where it's coming from, and use that info to balance out the once sided representation you get of BluRay tech. The reality of any situation is most porbably going to reside part way between the two polarised POVs.

Get the man some water, he is on fire!

To add to your last comment, looking at the pros and cons of BD/HD DVD and looking at the companies on each side or in the middle you can see that there really are two sides will valid points for different business models and concerns. For the most part most of these companies work together at some capacity. Its not like some like Sony and others Toshiba. Market forces are leaning two directions and it has polarized the market.

In the end I think we are all hoping that this gets resolved with a unified format that answers all the concerns on both sides, or at least most.

 

[mckmas8808]

In the end I think we are all hoping that this gets resolved with a unified format that answers all the concerns on both sides, or at least most.

Yes you are right, but for some reason I and many others don't think a unification will happen.

 

[zifnab]

I don't understand how anyone can support one format over the other at this point. The "best" format is to a large extent the one that offers the best value for money and it will undoubtedly be the format that prevails. Things like the price of players/ recorders, features, storage space, price of blank media and movies, and any possible noticeable differences in quality are important factors that will soon be put into practice. Both sides are making many claims in these respects, especially in regards to the price, but let's wait and see.

For all the BR (Sony) supporters in this thread crying out MS “FUDâ€￾ – what’s the point of supporting BR at this point? It’s certainly annoying to buy a PS3 and have BR lose out, but this’ll probably only occur if HD-DVD is the overall better choice, in which case you’ll likely be able to pick up a cheap standalone HD-DVD player anyway.

 

[aaaaa00]

That's not very elegant ... and it's hardly going to be any more difficult with BR discs, which use less of the depth of the disc in the first place.

Yes it actually is. In BD you have a substrate, then the data layer, then the 0.1mm cover layer. If you want cheap BD, you need spin coating for the cover layer. No one has really gotten spin coating to work right yet (but they may eventually) -- people are working on it, but it's a really tough problem. So people have been using film application to make the cover layer, which is slow, affects yields, and is pretty expensive.

If you want multiple data layers it gets even more scary -- the more layers you have, the more precise your spin coating has to get, and it's already hard enough with dual layers that not a single duplication line is willing to say they will be ready to meet independently verifiable industry standards for duplication reliability (well not yet anyway, who knows when they will be ready?).

HD DVD doesn't have this problem because the data layers are sandwiched between two 0.6mm polycarbonate substrates. So creating the epoxy layer in the middle is easy: just spin it in, then press down evenly on the two substrates and cure it. Cheap, fast, and well-understood.

BTW will all the actual HD-DVD players being launched actually have that iHD crap?

Yes all HD DVD players will ship with iHD. And how do you know it's crap? Have you actually tried to author anything using it, or are you just assuming that because it was designed by Microsoft and isn't BD-J that it sucks?

 

[MoeStooge]

One thing I've always been curious about is how the non-Sony Blu-ray hardware companies like the idea of Blu-ray being in the PS3. Typically, CE companies seem to make up a lot of R&D costs with initial product offerings that are very expensive. They slowly ramp costs down and the sales increase. If the PS3 is going to be the first device out that can play Blu-ray movies, then it's going to be very hard for other CE companies to make money.

As a consumer, if I have a choice between a $500 box that plays games, movies, and a host of other things or a $500 box that just plays movies, then I am going to go with the more versatile machine. It seems like companies like Panasonic are going to have trouble selling stand-alone units.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't understand how anyone can support one format over the other at this point.

Well it's easy for me to support BRD over HDDVD. I'm going to be getting a PS3 I don't want to have to shell out on another player for a different format!

 

[mckmas8808]

One thing I've always been curious about is how the non-Sony Blu-ray hardware companies like the idea of Blu-ray being in the PS3. Typically, CE companies seem to make up a lot of R&D costs with initial product offerings that are very expensive. They slowly ramp costs down and the sales increase. If the PS3 is going to be the first device out that can play Blu-ray movies, then it's going to be very hard for other CE companies to make money.

As a consumer, if I have a choice between a $500 box that plays games, movies, and a host of other things or a $500 box that just plays movies, then I am going to go with the more versatile machine. It seems like companies like Panasonic are going to have trouble selling stand-alone units.

I got a direct answer for you Moe right below.

Having a Blu-ray player built into the PS3 is a major plus for the new optical disc format, says Andy Parsons, senior vice president of Pioneer Electronics USA (NYSEIO - News), which backs Blu-ray .

Seems to me that Pioneer realizes the huge importance of the PS3. Hell looking at what the PSP has done for the UMD should show you what the initial installed base of a popular videogame console will do for your media of choice. They see that if people would just get the product and get familar with it, that should lead to people picking up a stand alone in the future and hopefully from them.

It's the same train of thought that BMW and Mercedes has with releasing a $30,000 or lower car. Get the consumer to know your product and they will keep buying.

 

[zifnab]

Well it's easy for me to support BRD over HDDVD. I'm going to be getting a PS3 I don't want to have to shell out on another player for a different format!

I'll probably be picking up a PS3 as well but as mentioned, if HD-DVD prevails it probably won't be an expensive commodity (since price is a driving factor in this race) in which case you'll be able to pick up a cheap standalone player anyway.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Well look at this this way. You get a PS3 and it has a Blu-Ray player. Ok, Blu-Ray just blew up in Sony's face. KK just jumped off a bridge and the cow just jumped over the moon. Atleast you didn't pay $500 for a dedicated Blu-Ray player. You spent $500 for a PS3 that can play Blu-Rays. I think, in some ways...thats a saftey net for early Blu-Ray adopters. The only money that you may have lost is with movies that you have already bought for the Blu-Ray (which just died). Now get a HD-DVD and go on your merry way.

Thats my outlook on it and thats why i'm not scarred of this format wars stuff.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'll probably be picking up a PS3 as well but as mentioned, if HD-DVD prevails it probably won't be an expensive commodity (since price is a driving factor in this race) in which case you'll be able to pick up a cheap standalone player anyway.

Weeeell not to fast. Toshiba says different.

Toshiba says it will sell its first HD DVD player by year-end in Japan and the U.S. That device is expected to cost $999.

Of course that release date isn't 100% and probably the price isn't either, but don't expect stand alone HD-DVD players to fall to reasonable prices for awhile. And what do you consider cheap standalone player prices?

 

[zifnab]

Weeeell not to fast. Toshiba says different.

If HD-DVD players are costing $999 and PS3's with BR are costing $500, do you think HD-DVD will win?

 

[a688]

Well it's easy for me to support BRD over HDDVD. I'm going to be getting a PS3 I don't want to have to shell out on another player for a different format!

Would you be willing to get a better blu-ray player when they come out? If your answer isn't no then your reason sucks.

I got a direct answer for you Moe right below.
Seems to me that Pioneer realizes the huge importance of the PS3. Hell looking at what the PSP has done for the UMD should show you what the initial installed base of a popular videogame console will do for your media of choice. They see that if people would just get the product and get familar with it, that should lead to people picking up a stand alone in the future and hopefully from them.

PSP is the ONLY device that uses UMD. The only reason it "took off" is because that is what it has to use for games. I guess the GBA cartridge "took off" as well and we all know how important it is to everybody as a storage format.

It's the same train of thought that BMW and Mercedes has with releasing a $30,000 or lower car. Get the consumer to know your product and they will keep buying.

Customers don't need to own a product to know it. BMW and Mercedes sell lower priced cars so others can afford them and have the prestige of owning a car with the companies name on it. Customers only keep buying if they are satisifed with the product and don't find anything better.

 

[wco81]

The standalone BR products will probably be able to record. That is one of the benefits of the BR format in that it's designed to support robust recording from the start, not the Baltics of competing recording formats which came well after DVD intro.

You will probably see combo PVR/BR products as well, not to mention integrated satellite HDTV tuners. Plus better remotes than the PS3 Batarang.

 

[hongcho]

Regarding iHD... It is basically AJAX with specific APIs for media authoring.

Hong.

 

[Ty]

PSP is the ONLY device that uses UMD. The only reason it "took off" is because that is what it has to use for games. I guess the GBA cartridge "took off" as well and we all know how important it is to everybody as a storage format.

I won't argue whether or not UMD has 'taken off' except to say that the movies sold on the format seem to have exceeded most expectations including my own. Will it last? I don't know. I know that without some sort of writing mechanism it will never penetrate to any where near the levels of other media so perhaps in the mid to long term it will drop out. Or not.

 

[AlphaWolf]

The standalone BR products will probably be able to record. That is one of the benefits of the BR format in that it's designed to support robust recording from the start, not the Baltics of competing recording formats which came well after DVD intro.

You will probably see combo PVR/BR products as well, not to mention integrated satellite HDTV tuners. Plus better remotes than the PS3 Batarang.

Are you saying that all stand alone BR products (aside from PS3 obviously) will be recorders? I highly doubt that.

 

[MfA]

Yes it actually is. In BD you have a substrate

In your hurry to trash BR and dazzle us with your technical know how you somehow forgot one thing ... to explain how all these difficulties in manufacturing the BR data layer are at all relevant to a conventional DVD data layer inside the substrate and vice versa.

 

[mckmas8808]

If HD-DVD players are costing $999 and PS3's with BR are costing $500, do you think HD-DVD will win?

One word. No.

Customers don't need to own a product to know it. BMW and Mercedes sell lower priced cars so others can afford them and have the prestige of owning a car with the companies name on it. Customers only keep buying if they are satisifed with the product and don't find anything better.

Don't you even know why those infomericals let you have the product free for 30 days? They want you to be familar with the product because they have confidence that you will like it and come back.

You will probably see combo PVR/BR products as well, not to mention integrated satellite HDTV tuners. Plus better remotes than the PS3 Batarang.

Sorry too late they already have. Check it out.

Samsung's wireless network BD/HDD recorder...this is the one with the internet connection
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/samsung_09.jpg

Sharp yet again displayed their AQUOS-brand BD/DVD/HDD recorder (BD-HD100), which is currently only available in Japan. The recorder features a BD drive, DVD drive and a 160GB HDD which can be used to record up to 19 hours of HDTV

Sharp's AQUOS-brand BD/DVD/HDD recorder (BD-HD100)
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/sharp_05.jpg