"Blu-ray support a last minute switch, Microsoft says..."

[expletive]

Well, not only do they own a Movie studio(s), they also have a console that has the potential to sell millions. The console will also (I think) debut Blu-Ray to America (in a massive way).

I also want to note that the security implementation in Blu-Ray is making me like it less and less. I hope theres some manageable way to make copies of items that you own, without jumping through hoops.

I dont recall, where was DVD when the PS2 was released? Was it already established and exploding?

If not, i dont think the PS2 or Xbox drove DVD to where it is today. I think its the stand alone players and being able ot rent a disc in blockbuster that really set it off.

(actually now that i think about, whatever the major rental stores support could be a huge)

IS there a reason to think this gen would be any different. Meaning why do we think a game console will drive the BR (or HD DVD)standard to success when (if) the ps2/xbox werent responsible for it last time around?

J

 

[AlphaWolf]

Does Toshiba really want to compete against 50 quid players?

There's also money to be made on the media.

One of the reasons the Japanese companies are pushing for next-gen is that DVD players became commoditized way faster than they wanted. So there is no money being made in making DVD players. Except for Toshiba, which is getting royalties.

I don't see why panasonic and other companies would push out 3 or 4 new products a year if they were losing money. I am sure margins are down on the base players, but there are a number of other DVD products with much higher prices.

I don't know how quickly those cheap HD-DVD players will appear. Blue laser diodes are still expensive.

The price will go down quickly once the units are actually for sale in volume.

I know part of the reason the Chinese went with HD-DVD was that they wanted their own standard, with the option to use their own codecs and copy protection.

So it's not a great deal for the big CE manufacturers for the Chinese to be on board. Can't be that great for the studios either, because pirated discs is what goes hand in hand with cheap players. Yeah it's easy to upgrade existing DVD lines to press HD-DVDs. That means the pirates will be able to press the HD-DVDs easier than Blu-Ray discs.

I bet the studios really care alot more about installed base in NA/Europe. There will always be piracy, blu-ray won't change that.

HD-DVD may be closer to market but they're not launching the product this year as they promised. The studios which announced all these titles with fanfare have backed off on the release this year. So the first to market advantage appears to be lost. In fact, one report was that Toshiba wasn't able to deliver enough prototype players to the major disc replicators who needed them for testing their pressings.

That only becomes significant if Blu-ray winds up beating HD-DVD to market.

 

[wco81]

I think DVD had been out a couple of years when the PS2 launched first in Japan.

However, the cheapest DVD players there at the time were $600. So a lot of people bought PS2s and used them for DVD players. For the first year or two, people bought more DVDs for their PS2s than games.

When it launched in the US, DVD players were just starting to go under $300 and you could even take advantage of some dot com to get them under $200, which is what I did with the Toshiba I still have.

So PS2 helped somewhat. PSP is apparently selling some UMD movies, far more than most people would have thought.

If Blu-Ray debuts with the PS3 or comes out around the same time, say a few months before, and HD-DVD also comes out say in March, then the PS3 will be a much bigger factor because the first Toshiba players are expected to be around $1000.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I dont recall, where was DVD when the PS2 was released? Was it already established and exploding?

If not, i dont think the PS2 or Xbox drove DVD to where it is today. I think its the stand alone players and being able ot rent a disc in blockbuster that really set it off.

DVD players were readily available but still quite pricey, PS2 put a lot of DVD players in homes that didnt have them. XBox was probably insignificant to the DVD market by the time it was released.

(actually now that i think about, whatever the major rental stores support could be a huge)

Rental stores are really struggling due to low dvd prices.

IS there a reason to think this gen would be any different. Meaning why do we think a game console will drive the BR (or HD DVD)standard to success when (if) the ps2/xbox werent responsible for it last time around?

J

Early installed base of Blu-ray through ps3 would definitely give the format a leg up. And we wouldn't be talking about the same situation as with DVD, PS3 will pretty much be leading the charge for blu-ray in NA/Europe.

 

[mckmas8808]

What's going on with B3D? I thought this was the place for fair and balanced tech news. This thread is a joke. Some people here are acting like clowns. This is the worst I've ever seen this place. People are willing to accept this MS FUD over anything that the Blu-ray team says. Do you guys remember any of this?

Toshiba said Thursday it was considering pushing back the launch of its next-generation HD-DVD players until 2006 - losing its first-mover advantage and the holiday season sales rush. HD-DVD was expected to get a head start on rival format Blu-ray, which Sony is set to debut early next year.

We originally aimed for the year-end launch in the United States. But we have not really decided on that." The format's launch in Japan could also be delayed until next year, the spokesperson said.

JVC was showcasing their BD/DVD hybrid media (33.5GB), which was developed to ease the transition from DVD to Blu-ray by creating a disc that will play in both BD players and DVD players. The hybrid disc is basically a single-layer BD-ROM (25GB) and a dual-layer DVD-ROM (8.5GB) in the same disc, which can be read in both players as the Blu-ray layer is transparent to the red laser used in a conventional DVD player.

A JVC representative offered a live demonstration where he first put the hybrid disc in the BD player and played the video in high definition (HD), he then transferred the disc to the conventional DVD player which seamlessly played the same video in standard definition (SD). According to the JVC representative the BD/DVD hybrid will be part of the BD-ROM specification, which was also confirmed by a BDA representative at the show.

Picture of the live demo
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/jvc_01.jpg

Picture of the BD/DVD disc
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/jvc_04.jpg


Like I was saying, what's going on with some respectable people here? Why are some of you going against the facts?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Maybe some people are just suitably open minded to appreciate neither one side nor the other tells things exactly as they are, and to understand the whole, one considers the two halves?

 

[Inane_Dork]

People are willing to accept this MS FUD over Blu-ray team FUD.

Fixed.

 

[PG2G]

Hahaha, mckmas8808. As if you're one to talk.

 

[AlphaWolf]

What's going on with B3D? I thought this was the place for fair and balanced tech news. This thread is a joke. Some people here are acting like clowns. This is the worst I've ever seen this place. People are willing to accept this MS FUD over anything that the Blu-ray team says. Do you guys remember any of this?

Maybe if you jump up and down and stamp your feet a little harder...

Demonstrations and pictures of a disk in testing don't put the product in production or on the shelves.

Like I was saying, what's going on with some respectable people here? Why are some of you going against the facts?

What facts?

 

[mckmas8808]

Hahaha, mckmas8808. As if you're one to talk.

By that you mean what?

Maybe if you jump up and down and stamp your feet a little harder...

Demonstrations and pictures of a disk in testing don't put the product in production or on the shelves.

Well if that's the case then what makes what some people in here are saying about HD-DVD correct? If these guys are actually showing demos of there product then shouldn't we assume that maybe things will be go as plan months from now? I mean what the hell man? How are you ever supposed to prove your product?

 

[c0_re]

What's going on with B3D? I thought this was the place for fair and balanced tech news. This thread is a joke. Some people here are acting like clowns. This is the worst I've ever seen this place. People are willing to accept this MS FUD over anything that the Blu-ray team says. Do you guys remember any of this?





Picture of the live demo
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/jvc_01.jpg

Picture of the BD/DVD disc
http://www.blu-ray.com/images/ifa2005/jvc_04.jpg


Like I was saying, what's going on with some respectable people here? Why are some of you going against the facts?

Sorry I don't believe 100% the "facts" from www.BlueRay.com thats like me calling up George Bush to ask how to war is going in IRAQ

 

[BlueTsunami]

Sorry I don't believe 100% the "facts" from www.BlueRay.com thats like me calling up George Bush to ask how to war is going in IRAQ

OMG do NOT put HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray and Bush vs The World in one thread. The time distortion will reak havok!

 

[AlphaWolf]

Well if that's the case then what makes what some people in here are saying about HD-DVD correct? If these guys are actually showing demos of there product then shouldn't we assume that maybe things will be go as plan months from now? I mean what the hell man? How are you ever supposed to prove your product?

If you want to PROVE your product you get it on the damn shelves. Until then its all marketing and speculation.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sorry I don't believe 100% the "facts" from www.BlueRay.com thats like me calling up George Bush to ask how to war is going in IRAQ

So why are you believing what we are seeing in this thread then?

 

[mckmas8808]

If you want to PROVE your product you get it on the damn shelves. Until then its all marketing and speculation.

Then answer these questions for me AlphaWolf. Why has the HD-DVD team decide to push back their date of release? And why has a couple of movie corp. pushed back the release of their HD-DVD movie release dates? Just please answer these two questions.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Then answer these questions for me AlphaWolf. Why has the HD-DVD team decide to push back their date of release? And why has a couple of movie corp. pushed back the release of their HD-DVD movie release dates? Just please answer these two questions.

Well if you push back one you push back the other, they are obviously having trouble getting products to market. That would mean a lot more if Blu-ray manufacturers weren't also in a situation of pushing back deadlines.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well if you push back one you push back the other, they are obviously having trouble getting products to market. That would mean a lot more if Blu-ray manufacturers weren't also in a situation of pushing back deadlines.

But are Blu-ray manufacturers really pushing back deadlines? As far as I knew the PS3 was going to be the real true debut of the Blu-ray format. Did they push back the release of the PS3? Where did you hear this story of the Blu-ray format getting pushed back? Not saying that it isn't true, just that I haven't seen it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well if that's the case then what makes what some people in here are saying about HD-DVD correct? If these guys are actually showing demos of there product then shouldn't we assume that maybe things will be go as plan months from now? I mean what the hell man? How are you ever supposed to prove your product?

Labratory results are NOT indicative of real-world products and possibilities. There's all sorts of amazing things developed in labratories that never see the light of day, simply because of technical difficulties, costs, production issues, and all sorts. A lab or promotional presentation shows the current state of experimental work. Unless they explain costs, yields, overheads and so forth, it only shows that said product is technically possible. Not whether it's commercial viable or not.

All these press releases are the same. They give a lop-sided presentation of factual data but they cannot be relied upon to give the whole picture. When the press release says '4 layer BluRay discs are being printed for 10 cents each' it may be happening, but when they say 'we have 4 layer BluRay discs' it means they have one, and maybe it cost them $400 to make excluding other costs.

You should never exclude one point of view. Rather then not believe the HDDVD FUD, read it and appreciate where it's coming from, and use that info to balance out the once sided representation you get of BluRay tech. The reality of any situation is most porbably going to reside part way between the two polarised POVs.

 

[BlueTsunami]

But are Blu-ray manufacturers really pushing back deadlines? As far as I knew the PS3 was going to be the real true debut of the Blu-ray format. Did they push back the release of the PS3? Where did you hear this story of the Blu-ray format getting pushed back? Not saying that it isn't true, just that I haven't seen it.

Well there ARE already BD-Burners in Japan (I believe) aren't there? But if there already out...then I don't see the push back. What theres is, is a lack of is content....no movies or media. Also, yeah..the PS3 should be the major PUSH for Blu-Ray. Its also cost effective (even if around $500). To be able to get a PS3 and a Blu-Ray player seems very cool to get in one package...and would possibly raise the adoption rate for Blu-Ray.

 

[AlphaWolf]

But are Blu-ray manufacturers really pushing back deadlines? As far as I knew the PS3 was going to be the real true debut of the Blu-ray format. Did they push back the release of the PS3? Where did you hear this story of the Blu-ray format getting pushed back? Not saying that it isn't true, just that I haven't seen it.

I know that BenQ pushed back the release of their Blu-ray drives from Q1-Q2 next year to Q3-Q4, I don't know about others. I wasn't suggesting that the whole thing was pushed back only that there were delays.