Blu-ray and ps3.

[notAFanB]

Sorry but it is the DVD that makes PS2 hot, not the other way round. If PS3 was to use BR and cometh 2005, then it sure is awfully quiet about BR. Think about it, DVDs prelaunch hype easily >>>>> BR prelaunch hype. It is hard to replace DVD overnight.

you assuming that past models neccessarily apply to the present (or near enough), and not looking into the fine detials. NOBODY is directly making the calim that PS2 is singulary responsable for the success of DVD only that is contributed to it's proliferation (in turn DVD benefited from the hype surrounding PS2 for the same thing). I'd say it was a two way relationship.

Anyway, unlike some of you, i wont be so rigidly stuck in the mud claiming BR over other formats for PS3. A dual layer double sided DVDs would even be more cost effective, providing ample space.

why the insult? while you have a point so do the BR advocates and not even considering the possibility they may have got a few things right sounds a lot more rigid to me.

 

[Psychogenics]

Sorry but it is the DVD that makes PS2 hot, not the other way round. If PS3 was to use BR and cometh 2005, then it sure is awfully quiet about BR. Think about it, DVDs prelaunch hype easily >>>>> BR prelaunch hype. It is hard to replace DVD overnight.

you assuming that past models apply int he present (or near enough). and NOBODY is directly making the calim that PS2 is singulary responsable for the success of DVD only that is contributed to it's proliferation (in turn DVD benefited from the hype surrounding PS2 for the same thing). I'd say it was a two way relationship.

Anyway, unlike some of you, i wont be so rigidly stuck in the mud claiming BR over other formats for PS3. A dual layer double sided DVDs would even be more cost effective, providing ample space.

why the insult? while you have a point so do the BR advocates and not even considering the possibility they may have got a few things right sounds a lot more rigid to me.

Ps2 did push the DVD format and the only reason that I speculate that BR would end up on the PS3 is because Ken K. is in charge of that division and he went on record as he will focus on games....Gee how are they going to make BR a standard in a short time?PS3 can be that horse that they need......or maybe a hybrid like the PSX but I must say that he is in charge in coming up with ways on how to get it to the market QUICKLY.

 

[chaphack]

BR needs more acceptance and make more haste. More be done if the BR group hopes to replace DVDs with BRs. Not an easy task considering how long videotapes and CDs are hanging on.

 

[London Geezer]

am i the only one who doesnt think there is a need for BR to REPLACE DA DVD THINGY OVANITE INNIT....

BR players and PS3 will still be able to read existing DVD's, so i don't see what the fuss is all about. PS3 games will come on DVD maybe at the beginning, just like PS2 games came on CD at launch and for a while after launch (Tekken Tag was on CD)... then when the devs feel it's needed, they will start using BR....
in 2006 people will still be buying LOADS of existing DVD videos, therefore BR will not replace it (the DVD format) overnight. it will take ages to replace it AT ALL....

 

[Panajev2001a]

BTW get back to me when BD recorders are under $200

I guess that the meaning of "effects of high volume production or lack of it" escapes you...

In your opinion with the early introduction of the BW-F101 player we reached high volume production ?

 

[jvd]

am i the only one who doesnt think there is a need for BR to REPLACE DA DVD THINGY OVANITE INNIT....

BR players and PS3 will still be able to read existing DVD's, so i don't see what the fuss is all about. PS3 games will come on DVD maybe at the beginning, just like PS2 games came on CD at launch and for a while after launch (Tekken Tag was on CD)... then when the devs feel it's needed, they will start using BR....
in 2006 people will still be buying LOADS of existing DVD videos, therefore BR will not replace it (the DVD format) overnight. it will take ages to replace it AT ALL....

we should really talk about vhs getting replaced before we even think about dvd going out the window

 

[Almasy]

we should really talk about vhs getting replaced before we even think about dvd going out the window

I believe that is what BR is trying to replace. Afterall, why do we keep all of our old VHS players? Because a digital medium that can record at will hasn´t appeared yet. With my VHS, I can program it to record on my tape, whatever show at whatever time, and then come back later to watch it. I can´t do that with my CD or DVD player.

IMO VHS is what is in need of a replacement, not DVD. If successfull, eventually BR will take over DVD of course, but I don´t think that´s the main reason why people will buy one.

 

[Panajev2001a]

we should really talk about vhs getting replaced before we even think about dvd going out the window

I believe that is what BR is trying to replace. Afterall, why do we keep all of our old VHS players? Because a digital medium that can record at will hasn´t appeared yet. With my VHS, I can program it to record on my tape, whatever show at whatever time, and then come back later to watch it. I can´t do that with my CD or DVD player.

IMO VHS is what is in need of a replacement, not DVD. If successfull, eventually BR will take over DVD of course, but I don´t think that´s the main reason why people will buy one.

Agreed, that should be one of the nice selling points of the technology

 

[jvd]

we should really talk about vhs getting replaced before we even think about dvd going out the window

I believe that is what BR is trying to replace. Afterall, why do we keep all of our old VHS players? Because a digital medium that can record at will hasn´t appeared yet. With my VHS, I can program it to record on my tape, whatever show at whatever time, and then come back later to watch it. I can´t do that with my CD or DVD player.

IMO VHS is what is in need of a replacement, not DVD. If successfull, eventually BR will take over DVD of course, but I don´t think that´s the main reason why people will buy one.

Agreed, that should be one of the nice selling points of the technology

Unless the dvd players do it first and cheaper . If a blueray drive is to expensive at launch it will not be in the ps3 and i think we can all agree on that .

 

[Panajev2001a]

If a blueray drive is to expensive at launch it will not be in the ps3 and i think we can all agree on that .

You simplify it a bit too much...

What if Blu-Ray is cheaper because it ships INSIDE PlayStation 3 ?

 

[jvd]

If a blueray drive is to expensive at launch it will not be in the ps3 and i think we can all agree on that .

You simplify it a bit too much...

What if Blu-Ray is cheaper because it ships INSIDE PlayStation 3 ?

I think you complicate it to much but really . Price comes down because people start to buy the product and the software makes up the price diffrence . IF a dvd player costs a 100 to make and they are selling them at 500 for a player when the dvd paly came out. It was priced this way because the software (movies) weren't selling much because there were only a few users to buy them. Once they hit a point where other sony companys were making tons of money off the actually software they were able to drop the price of the hardware and still see thier profits rise and rise. At the same time they are producing more and more hardware and getting better yields off the chps and the casing and what not cheaper and cheaper. Blueray will not have this chance before the ps3 comes out. Ps2 and xbox had 2or 3 years of dvd players and software selling very well (actually it was said to be the fasted adopted item since the first tvs in america) .

 

[Clashman]

Sure, it may well be the future, but that doesn't mean anything right now.

Who cares about right now when the soonest the console can come out is 2005, and by then, HDTV broadcast should already be aplenty (even today, there's lots of HDTV programming available, now that I think about it) For a console that's supposed to be on the market until 2010, it sure as heck better be prepared for the HDTV support, and why not, the HDTV recording.

HDTV broadcast may well be there in 2005/2007, but HDTV marketshare sure as hell won't be. Total houshold marketshare fot HDTV would have to be pretty high for HDTV recording to be a significant selling point. If noone has HDTV, noone cares about the ability to record HDTV.

If BR does make itself present in PS3, it will more likely be a separate, more expensive model, perhaps even released concurrantly with the vanilla PS3. Games could potentially be sold on both BR and DVD format. That's about the most realistic way I see BR getting in to PS3. Because it is either INCREDIBLY profitable at 3k a piece, or very expensive to make, (my guess is that it is a bit of both). Neither of those are the all together promising signs that your hardware is going to make it into sub-300 dollar hardware. I point you once again to the fact that DVD players could be had at 200 to 250 dollars back around this time in the PS2's design phase and were a much, much more affordable move into a console than BR is at present.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Because it is either INCREDIBLY profitable at 3k a piece, or very expensive to make, (my guess is that it is a bit of both)

"Secrets of high volume manufacturing and effects on items' price"...

 

[Clashman]

They won't get THAT much cheaper that fast.

 

[jvd]

Because it is either INCREDIBLY profitable at 3k a piece, or very expensive to make, (my guess is that it is a bit of both)

"Secrets of high volume manufacturing and effects on items' price"...

Panajev ... can i call you panajev ? Anyway the device must be alot less than a 100bucks for it to even be considered going into the ps3. Remember the whole thing has to cost around 500. So a 300 dollar drive wont go into the ps3. There is no way that it will happen esp not when a 15 dollar drive can be put in and have the same effect.

 

[Psychogenics]

Because it is either INCREDIBLY profitable at 3k a piece, or very expensive to make, (my guess is that it is a bit of both)

"Secrets of high volume manufacturing and effects on items' price"...

Panajev ... can i call you panajev ? Anyway the device must be alot less than a 100bucks for it to even be considered going into the ps3. Remember the whole thing has to cost around 500. So a 300 dollar drive wont go into the ps3. There is no way that it will happen esp not when a 15 dollar drive can be put in and have the same effect.

If it can do the same effect why hasn't it yet....Why do consoles need a HDD when DVDs can hold up to 18gigs????I'll tel you why it not stable enough and from what I've read about BR it bring stability to the table....To date I still haven't seen any game on the PS2 over the 10gig mark but HDTV games will hold alot more info than that.....make the 18gigs+ the norm on the PS3......

 

[marconelly!]

HDTV broadcast may well be there in 2005/2007, but HDTV marketshare sure as hell won't be. Total houshold marketshare fot HDTV would have to be pretty high for HDTV recording to be a significant selling point. If noone has HDTV, noone cares about the ability to record HDTV.

Well, then I guess Microsoft is stupid for including Hard drive in their console (as memory card is just fine) or for bothering with standardizing that games should run at least in 480p. Noone cares about that right? Wrong. Internet is bubbling with people who appreciate those features, even if they aren't mainstream, people keep spreading the good word.

Besides, who says BR can only be used to record HDTV? It will surely be able to record standard broadcast also. Basically, it can be a device to replace VHS for standard *and* HDTV broadcast, and VHS replacement, in my opinion, has been long due.

 

[jvd]

Because it is either INCREDIBLY profitable at 3k a piece, or very expensive to make, (my guess is that it is a bit of both)

"Secrets of high volume manufacturing and effects on items' price"...

Panajev ... can i call you panajev ? Anyway the device must be alot less than a 100bucks for it to even be considered going into the ps3. Remember the whole thing has to cost around 500. So a 300 dollar drive wont go into the ps3. There is no way that it will happen esp not when a 15 dollar drive can be put in and have the same effect.

If it can do the same effect why hasn't it yet....Why do consoles need a HDD when DVDs can hold up to 18gigs????I'll tel you why it not stable enough and from what I've read about BR it bring stability to the table....To date I still haven't seen any game on the PS2 over the 10gig mark but HDTV games will hold alot more info than that.....make the 18gigs+ the norm on the PS3......

Lets see a 100gig hardrive and a dvd drive right right now is about 2,800$ less than a blueray drive. Which do you think would go into a console first. Yes i kow we aren't talking about right now but the future. But the future is only 2 years away at the most (remember they need to build alot of systems before launch) Do yu really see a blueray droping from 3grand - sub 100 bucks in 2 years . I don't .

I also don't buy the hdtv games bs . That will not happen this upcoming gen. Not unless there is a fall back. In 2005 and 2006 i would doubt that hdtvs will make up more than 10% of the tvs out in the world. So unless they have hdtv res and then standard res with 4 x fsaa i don't see them moving to hdtv yet. They can but there isn't the market for it .

 

[Clashman]

And are HDTV resolutions necessarily going to mean exponentially bigger games? Last I checked, PCs have been running HDTV resolutions for some time.

 

[function]

Mass production and the maturing of technology will of course drop the price of piece of technology, but what are we saying here, that a $3,000 part is going to be reduced to $60 (an entirely arbitrary figure) in a little over two years time?

Making a console is about balancing the cost of all your parts to give optimal performance. I don't know how much it's going to cost Sony to include BR in a console to launch in late 2005, but much above what it cost them to include DVD on the PS2 it must start having a big impact on the functionality of other areas of the platform.

The benefit that BR would provide to games over increased memory, more bandwidth or faster processors is questionable. Additional processing power can benefit every frame of a game, where as the advantage of not having to swap a disk is far more limited. It's not like the situation where the first N64 games came on 8 meg carts, while CD's offered 90 times the storage (unlimited, if you include disk swapping) at a fraction of the cost.

The comparisons of the benefits of BR vs hard drives are interesting.

While the infinite storage offered by any changeable media is nothing to sniff at, it's important for technology enthusiast not to forget the value of a black box that typical users can just turn on and forget about.

Making the running of feature rich machines as transparent as possible is one aim of consumer device manufacturers. Downloading updates and patches without troubling the user for a disk is one way to make this happen. It also makes it easier to control the material that consumers download - while it's on the box (be it movies or music) it's at the mercy of the content providers. And there's less likely to be the asking of questions like "why is this music that I downloaded to this disk not playable on my friends PS3."

Hard disks are already going beyond 240 Gigs, by late 2005 I expect they'll be double that. BR will make a great technology for a future PSX style device that's based on the PS3, but I think for the moment hard drives offer a greater "mass storage" benefit to games consoles (especially when you take into account the cost implications). And I think that's still the primary concern with what will be the PS3 (at least initially).

NOTE: when I started typing this the last half a dozen posts weren't there! Damned if I'm gonna scrap this post now though ...

Edited more than once, because it takes me several attempts to proof read my own writing.