Black Reviews are in!

[London Geezer]

I think I heard that about 1/3 of all modern games use it.

Renderware you mean? Don't think so... 1/3rd of all modern games is thousands and thousands of games... That would be a hell of a lot of money in Criterion's hands, as they get licensing fees for each kit sold to developers, so much that they wouldn't need EA if not for cleaning their new cobra skin boots.
Unless EA bought the whole thing, including Renderware... Even then, if thousands of games were using it, EA would have had to pay Criterion a hell of a lot of money.

 

[deathstar121]

The game blows from a gameplay standpoint, but the graphics are F N amazing for a current gen game.

 

[nintenho]

Renderware you mean? Don't think so... 1/3rd of all modern games is thousands and thousands of games... That would be a hell of a lot of money in Criterion's hands, as they get licensing fees for each kit sold to developers, so much that they wouldn't need EA if not for cleaning their new cobra skin boots.
Unless EA bought the whole thing, including Renderware... Even then, if thousands of games were using it, EA would have had to pay Criterion a hell of a lot of money.

I think the statistic was talking about current gen console games only though.

 

[London Geezer]

I think the statistic was talking about current gen console games only though.

Well, according to Sony, there are around 10,000 PS2 games out now. Personally i have no idea how they got to that number, but even a third of that is a LOT of games

 

[nintenho]

Well, according to Sony, there are around 10,000 PS2 games out now. Personally i have no idea how they got to that number, but even a third of that is a LOT of games

Well, gamespot says only about a thousand...

 

[fearsomepirate]

On Criterion's site, they claim 25% of "current console SKUs" and over 500 games:

http://www.renderware.com/clients_titles.asp

 

[London Geezer]

On Criterion's site, they claim 25% of "current console SKUs" and over 500 games:

http://www.renderware.com/clients_titles.asp

Does "25% of current console SKU's" mean "25% of current games"? Or does it mean "25% of current developers use Renderware", cause that would be different.

 

[nintenho]

Does "25% of current console SKU's" mean "25% of current games"? Or does it mean "25% of current developers use Renderware", cause that would be different.

I'd imagine all console SKU's are the same...

 

[Phil]

Does "25% of current console SKU's" mean "25% of current games"?

No, it means that possibly 25% of publishers develop with renderware. Can't vouch for the claim, but I'd say there are quite a few american/european based developers that probably use it - can't think of any Japanese teams though.

 

[Lazy8s]

An SKU is the unique ID given to each game for each territory in which it's released.

Some Japanese developers like SEGA used Renderware on some multiplatform projects, like Sonic Hereos, to get concurrent production up to speed.

 

[nintenho]

An SKU is the unique ID given to each game for each territory in which it's released.

Some Japanese developers like SEGA used Renderware on some multiplatform projects, like Sonic Hereos, to get concurrent production up to speed.

Oh, I thought SKU meant development kit.

 

[Nick Laslett]

No, it means that possibly 25% of publishers develop with renderware. Can't vouch for the claim, but I'd say there are quite a few american/european based developers that probably use it - can't think of any Japanese teams though.

Pro Evo Soccer 1 and Pro Evo Soccer 2 both used Renderware.

 

[Lazy8s]

SDK is the development kit.

 

[randycat99]

I am compelled to revise what I said about the AI in Black. I don't think it is as "dumb" as people make it out to be. Yes, everybody starts out in the same initial positions. However, the longer you are in combat (vs. rushing in and killing them where they stand), the more you get to see them moving around to adapt to your attack. I'm not trying to say they are the most refined battle AI to hit a videogame. I'm not trying to say that every reaction to every event is covered...but they aren't exactly dumb, either. They will duck and cover, dodge, retreat, flank, and sneak up on you from behind if allowed to move around long enough. That seems to me to be sufficient for a compelling shootfest.

 

[pegisys]

No, it means that possibly 25% of publishers develop with renderware. Can't vouch for the claim, but I'd say there are quite a few american/european based developers that probably use it - can't think of any Japanese teams though.

I know sega used it for a few of the sonic games, also all the spongebob games and alot of other youth games

I think renderware was one of the only engine that ran on all platforms last gen, only popular one anyway, it's seems like UE3 is on track to take it's place this gen though

 

[Phil]

I am compelled to revise what I said about the AI in Black. I don't think it is as "dumb" as people make it out to be. Yes, everybody starts out in the same initial positions. However, the longer you are in combat (vs. rushing in and killing them where they stand), the more you get to see them moving around to adapt to your attack. I'm not trying to say they are the most refined battle AI to hit a videogame. I'm not trying to say that every reaction to every event is covered...but they aren't exactly dumb, either. They will duck and cover, dodge, retreat, flank, and sneak up on you from behind if allowed to move around long enough. That seems to me to be sufficient for a compelling shootfest.

Just to add another observation; It seems that usually, those games that use a more sophisticated AI are usually the ones that give the impression that the AI is dumb. I have not only noticed this with i.e. KillZone, but some other games as well. It's also somewhat in line with my own experience in developing AI.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

k well I got this game because of the decent reviews and more importantly because it was suppose to be the best ps2 can offer graphics wise, I wanted to see what the ps2 was capable of. Anyways the game f-ing blew, like it was sooo soo bad, it was truthfully painful to play through, game play mechanics were on par with the original mgs 1 for psx. The graphics were nice yes but I mean nothing I couldn't get from 3 year old PC titles, and in my opinion many other ps2 games offer far more immersive environments (ICO and sotc come to mind for example). Really the *only* good point this game has is it's sound (which is amazing btw with the proper 5.1 setup) and the graphics which do, without a doubt push the ps2 to it's limits. Maybe if they had added multi player in addition to the pathetic single player it might have been a worthwhile purchase but not in it's current state

 

[Ghost of D3D]

k well I got this game because of the decent reviews and more importantly because it was suppose to be the best ps2 can offer graphics wise,

My first hand experience says that the game looks great.

On the other hand, if one of your criterias for buying a PS2 game was for the graphics, I'll have to recommend you look up either/both Metal Gear Solid 3 : Snake Eater as well as Shadow of The Colossus. I mention these two games in particular because while they both look gorgeous, they're also the anti-thesises of each other; the first has gobs of environmental details the latter doesn't have while the latter has probably the best approximations of truly realistic outside world lighting effects.

I wanted to see what the ps2 was capable of.

A litlle sad, but probably understandable, to see you use the word "was". I'm sure, however, that somewhere in the Sony PS2 office that there's a PS2 tech demo that has truly remarkable graphics without any care for a sustained 60fps gameplay experience, which I presume is probably what you meant by what the PS2 is capable of.

 

[Nick Laslett]

k well I got this game because of the decent reviews and more importantly because it was suppose to be the best ps2 can offer graphics wise, I wanted to see what the ps2 was capable of. Anyways the game f-ing blew, like it was sooo soo bad, it was truthfully painful to play through, game play mechanics were on par with the original mgs 1 for psx. The graphics were nice yes but I mean nothing I couldn't get from 3 year old PC titles, and in my opinion many other ps2 games offer far more immersive environments (ICO and sotc come to mind for example). Really the *only* good point this game has is it's sound (which is amazing btw with the proper 5.1 setup) and the graphics which do, without a doubt push the ps2 to it's limits. Maybe if they had added multi player in addition to the pathetic single player it might have been a worthwhile purchase but not in it's current state

Black is one of the most technically advanced games available for the PS2. Remember the hardware is 6 years old this month.

Compared to the tech demos from the PS2 unveiling in March '99, Black is astounding.

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/072/072837p1.html

Not sure which PC title impressed you so much 3 years ago. Half Life 2 is 15 months old. Doom 3 was released Oct 04. Black compares well against these 2 titles in terms of technical performance of the game engine. Far Cry came out in March 04, so it is exactly 2 years old.

It is useful not to confuse art design with the technical aspects of a game engine. MGS3, Shadow of Colossus and GT4 all have art design that is superior to Black.

This is what makes Black so technically impressive imho: (remember this is PS2 game.)
1. Environment Destruction - Huge amount of objects/buildings you can destroy, a much greater level of interaction that Half Life 2 achieved.
2. Number of Polygons - High poly counts for people, objects and environments.
3. Particle Effects - Massive amount of smoke, particles, mist, haze, fog, etc
4. Animation
5. Textures
6. Solid 30 FPS framerate
7. A.I
8. Progressive Scan
9. Streaming levels
10. Dolby Surround II Sound

 

[Deepak]

So I finally got to play Black. I am really impressed, there is so much action going on that one doesn't get time to think about anything else most of the time. I completely agree with Nick.

I wish Killzone was atlest 30FPS, that would have made a world of difference. After playing Black, I don't feel like playing Killzone. :smile: