Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]
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cheapchips
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Scorpio Vs Navi flops. They should probably issue next gen Navi scaled flops to avoid confusion. NGSNTFLOPS is the future of stat willy waiving.
As N7/N7P/N7+/N6 are allegedly compatible AMD's roadmap for GPU releases are imho meaningless for a custom design.
N6 is a dead end. No consoles will be on it.
N7 and N7+ will will both be portable to N5.
D
Deleted member 11852
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In the Kotaku podcast the Lockhart GPU was alikened to PS4 Pro in (flat teraflops), accepting Lockhart's GPU will be more modern, have a better CPU and solid state storage - so overall considerably more powerful than PS4 Pro.
cheapchips
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What adds to the confusion of Lockhart reportly being at PS4pro level is that they both target the same resolution... 1440p.
AbsoluteBeginner
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I am not buying that 12TF rumor just yet. Aiming for? Maybe. Achievable? Doubt it very, very much.
Albert Panello dropped interesting tidbit yesterday on how will PR explain TF number no longer being as relevant, duo to big difference in perf per TF of GCN cards vs Navi.
Basically, if you have 10TF Navi, will you say "Its 10TF console" or will you say "Its 13TF console", because you are comparing it to last gen showing? If thats the case, perhaps MS and Sony target specs where simply made with performance thinking in mind. Telling developers what to shoot for 2 years before consoles are released. In this case, developers would probably be looking at ~2080 performances, without 13TF actually being true.
Target GPU performance - 13TF (back in 2018). Achievable in 2020 with Navi ~ 9-10TF? Because hard limits of TDP/die size are there, and I just don't understand how can they reach 10TF, let alone 12TF. I think there is also a reason why they mentioned CPU, SSD etc. without mentioning GPU advancements as much, and that is because actual numbers are in 8-10TF range.
If they where at 12-13TF level they would be screaming from the rooftops as that level of performances, with additions such as RT and VRS is approaching 2080TI numbers.
*This is all assuming they go with 7nm (which seems increasing likely to be the case)
Albert Panello dropped interesting tidbit yesterday on how will PR explain TF number no longer being as relevant, duo to big difference in perf per TF of GCN cards vs Navi.
Basically, if you have 10TF Navi, will you say "Its 10TF console" or will you say "Its 13TF console", because you are comparing it to last gen showing? If thats the case, perhaps MS and Sony target specs where simply made with performance thinking in mind. Telling developers what to shoot for 2 years before consoles are released. In this case, developers would probably be looking at ~2080 performances, without 13TF actually being true.
Target GPU performance - 13TF (back in 2018). Achievable in 2020 with Navi ~ 9-10TF? Because hard limits of TDP/die size are there, and I just don't understand how can they reach 10TF, let alone 12TF. I think there is also a reason why they mentioned CPU, SSD etc. without mentioning GPU advancements as much, and that is because actual numbers are in 8-10TF range.
If they where at 12-13TF level they would be screaming from the rooftops as that level of performances, with additions such as RT and VRS is approaching 2080TI numbers.
*This is all assuming they go with 7nm (which seems increasing likely to be the case)
Klee did mention both are double digit RDNA Tflops so if assuming that's true then we're looking at something at least 7nm+ on a big Navi Chip. If PS5 really is 12.9TF as Tom Warren rumored it during E3 then it'll probably kill a 2080 with ease
That said I am prepared for the worst if PS5 only lands at 10.xx TF, first party games on that machine would still look amazing.
That said I am prepared for the worst if PS5 only lands at 10.xx TF, first party games on that machine would still look amazing.
D
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In H1 2019 the best possible AMD dGPU that could go on a PC-based devkit would have been a Radeon VII with the clocks set at 1.7GHz, providing exactly 13.056 TFLOPs.
1.7GHz is probably the best a Radeon VII can sustain, once the boost functionality is disabled for devs to design around a predictible performance target.
A 40CU Navi 5700 XT that clocks around 2GHz does 10.1 TFLOPs and performs just 8% lower than a Radeon VII at 4K (maybe mostly due to memory bandwidth at that resolution).
So a 13 TFLOPs Vega on a devkit to a PS5 that eventually gets a >11 TFLOPs Navi GPU might actually be conservative in the end.
Or a <5 TFLOPs Navi (RX5500) performs close to a 6 TFLOPs Polaris (RX580) at 1080p-1440p, and the massive difference in CPU performance between 8-core Zen2 and Jaguar puts Lockhart head and shoulders above Scorpio.
Expect atleast 2080Ti performance, and then some. Below 14TF seems conservatite, we should think more towards the 20TF range to be realistic. AMD's current top 5700XT will look like nothing compared to what will be in there, with the addition of Ray Tracing that bests what RTX offers now, and future.
Also, 7nm+ means we could see Zen 3, which enables higher clocks in the range of 3.8ghz, possibly 4ghz or higher boost clocks. HBM isn't out of the picture either yet for the PS5, it will enable atleast 1TB/s speeds. About 32GB of that is to be expected to accompany the fast SSD solution.
Also, 7nm+ means we could see Zen 3, which enables higher clocks in the range of 3.8ghz, possibly 4ghz or higher boost clocks. HBM isn't out of the picture either yet for the PS5, it will enable atleast 1TB/s speeds. About 32GB of that is to be expected to accompany the fast SSD solution.
And all that for just $399!!!!
At 499 we will see even higher performance parts.
AbsoluteBeginner
Regular
I mean, whats the worst that can happen if one console is 12TF and other is 10TF? In this case, I assume PS5 would be cheaper then Anaconda and yet difference for 99% of folks would be absolutely minimal. Imagine one game running at 4K on Anaconda, the other at ~10% less resolution or 2-3 settings lowered. Indistinguishable for most people, and much smaller difference then 1.8TF vs 1.3TF, even though there are 2TF between the two.Klee did mention both are double digit RDNA Tflops so if assuming that's true then we're looking at something at least 7nm+ on a big Navi Chip. If PS5 really is 12.9TF as Tom Warren rumored it during E3 then it'll probably kill a 2080 with ease
That said I am prepared for the worst if PS5 only lands at 10.xx TF, first party games on that machine would still look amazing.
OK let's break it down a bit using insiders Klee, Matt and Jason as basis. Klee said both XB2 and PS5 are above Stadia (10.7 TF) in raw teraflops at the time before this new leak that contains updated hardware. So the older XB2 and PS5 devkits would be at least north of 11 TF and in RDNA flops with PS5 slightly faster in the realm of 10% so ~12 TF. Now with the new XB2 devkit it would seem they have either reached or getting close to 12 TF thus matching PS5 devkit more or less.
Matt later added even with the improved XB2 devkit the difference in power is still negligible so maybe they're just much closer than ever before now. Jason pretty much shot down that pastebin post of a 10.24 TF PS5. If they're all to be believed nextgen consoles are at the cusp of becoming 12 TF monsters that would eat 2080 for breakfast.
Matt later added even with the improved XB2 devkit the difference in power is still negligible so maybe they're just much closer than ever before now. Jason pretty much shot down that pastebin post of a 10.24 TF PS5. If they're all to be believed nextgen consoles are at the cusp of becoming 12 TF monsters that would eat 2080 for breakfast.
Yeah and that's just the case for multiplatform, we still don't know how big of a graphics hindrance Lockhart would bring to Anaconda for their first party titles, that's probably an area where PS5 could overtake the lead when nothing is holding it back.
Also Osiris strikes again!
Floodgate opening any day now.
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Microsoft has already confirmed that Project Scarlett will replace Xbox One S as the hardware for XCloud. I'm kinda wondering now if that is why we are really seeing Lockhart. A cheaper chip that will run next gen games at 1080p while being more energy efficient seems like it would be more suited to Microsoft vision of cloud gaming ( low bandwidth that's primarily targeted towards mobile devices). Using Anaconda is probably overkill for what they want in those data centers.
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