Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[bgroovy]

I think people are failling to see what is happening here. Sony and MS provided target specs and back when they did (2018 by Sony), only target you could give to devs was one in GCN flops.

Converting between "GCN Flops" and other kinds of Flops is not a real thing. It's an invented metric created on ERA. There is zero chance these companies were communicating in terms like that.

 

[PSman1700]

Converting between "GCN Flops" and other kinds of Flops is not a real thing. It's an invented metric created on ERA. There is zero chance these companies were communicating in terms like that.

Yeah, Navi didn't get more efficient att all :S

 

[Mskx]

Converting between "GCN Flops" and other kinds of Flops is not a real thing. It's an invented metric created on ERA. There is zero chance these companies were communicating in terms like that.

I could maybe at a stretch see them use "translated" numbers like that for advertising/PR purposes, but not when communicating with developers.

 

[PSman1700]

If it ain't a 2080 beater i will be dissapointed.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Converting between "GCN Flops" and other kinds of Flops is not a real thing. It's an invented metric created on ERA. There is zero chance these companies were communicating in terms like that.

I am saying, how do you communicate 13TF to developers back in 2018? Like, if they said 13TF to devs in 2018, you are probably thinking "Well that means we are shooting for overclocked ~Vega64 performances!", but in reality 13TF Navi decimates Vega 64 so they would still be targeting wrong performances.

I dunno. If MS and Sony told devs in 2018 "Target specs are 12-13TF" and they deliver 9-10TF Navi, it would be good target back in 2018. If they deliver 13TF Navi, then they underestimated their performance targets. Severely.

 

[Proelite]

Sony and MS has being aware of Navi flops since 2017. It's not like they're blind about this stuff.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

In the history of console gaming, have rumours ever not pointed to consoles being monster machines?

Well people haven't dared to create rumours about Nintendo consoles being monsters in quite a while. The most we saw about the switch was the existence of a Pro dock that carried a dGPU which would put it closer to the mid-gens.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Sony and MS has being aware of Navi flops since 2017. It's not like they're blind about this stuff.

But then clearly both have been targeting 12-13TF, which seems really excessive IMO (especially if clocks are like like leaked Oberon ones - 2.0GHZ).

 

[Rangers]

In the history of console gaming, have rumours ever not pointed to consoles being monster machines? Without leaks, we consistently hear (or so it seems) that a new console will blow socks off, and invariable the final thing never lives up to those impossbile expectations and socks remain firmly on, at best a little loosened.

I remember hearing about Xbox One "is weird machine, does not have traditional powerful GPU" or something.

I guess that turned out to be a bit correct. Only 768 sp's, not a barnburner GPU.

Trying to think more to the question, I dont remember, but I dont THINK Xbox One was ever really touted as a monster. There was a lot of ideas of special sauce making up for the weak GPU though.

Thinking about it honestly Nintendo platforms were the worst, both WiiU and Switch people were really searching for some hidden power! Especially Wii U.

Also Xbox One did have 8GB RAM, which was pretty astonishing at the time. I remember people touting next gen would have 2GB for perspective. And we know even PS4 was originally slated for 4GB. So that may have muddled things in respect to Xbox power expectations.

Anyways these next consoles seem very nice to me, with the addition of ingrained SSD's really being a cherry on top, Zen CPU's. A 12TF, Zen, 16GB GDDR6 SSD machine is suitably monstrous for me! Quite aggressive indeed (and expensive). It does appear to me the market is somewhat stratifying, and supports a expensive high end option.

 

[bgroovy]

Yeah, Navi didn't get more efficient att all :S

Tech always gets more efficient. No one tries to translate between Keppler Flops and Tesla Flops. It's an absurd thing to do.

I am saying, how do you communicate 13TF to developers back in 2018? Like, if they said 13TF to devs in 2018, you are probably thinking "Well that means we are shooting for overclocked ~Vega64 performances!", but in reality 13TF Navi decimates Vega 64 so they would still be targeting wrong performances.

You say, "Our design targets 13TF, and we expect the architecture to be significantly more efficient than the currently available architecture." Teraflops are an objective measure. You don't get cute with that stuff.

 

[chris1515]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...h-thread-ot7-nm.148625/page-347#post-27253692

Albert Penello said that it is not GCN flops for Xbox Scarlett. This is RDNA flops.

 

[PSman1700]

At 2080Ti level of performance, or much higher, it doesn't really matter how much TF that translates to.

 

[chris1515]

At 2080Ti level of performance, or much higher, it doesn't really matter how much TF that translates to.

12 Tflops Navi is not 2080 Ti level maybe between RTX 2080 and RTX 2080 Super. There will be much better GPU on Nvidia side when Nvidia release Ampere and probably much better GPU on AMD side too.

 

[PSman1700]

20TF atleast.

 

[chris1515]

If this the real Endproduct /Retail then good Night. It is the same Bottleneckarchitecture like on the Ps4. What People forget with an UMA Architecture is , you cannot have the full 256 Bit Bandwidth for the GPU because you must share it with the CPU , and a Zen2 CPU at 3 or 3,5 Ghz , 16 x Multithreading , need more Bandwidth then the oldJaguar CPU at 1,6 Ghz. It is not only about Gbytes/s . And Gddr6 is a high Latency Memory not really good for CPU Operations. So in real you have only 192 Bit for the GPU and the Rest goes to the CPU , not enough for native 4K gaming and 60 Fps , and not enough for the Zen2 CPU to utilize her full strength. In such Bottleneckarchitecture a Zen2 CPU is far more limited as in a PC Architecture/Motherboard.

So yes 16 Gbyte Ram and a 256 Bit Bus is good for the Buisness , but bad for the Games, bad for the Progress, and bad for my Eyes. So what have they done in the 7 Years at the R&D Headquarter?

I think AMD have a patent(2017 or 2018) to reduce UMA bus contention with a priority give to CPU call if I remember well.

 

[Pinstripe]

I still can't see how they'll hit acceptable TDP targets. These RDNA2 CUs must be even bigger than Navi's, with RT included. And we know a RX 5700X sucks ~250W @2 Ghz. They must be either doing something miraculously with RDNA2 (extremely low core Voltage), or go with a large die (expensive).

 

[PSman1700]

They must be either doing something miraculously with RDNA2 (extremely low core Voltage), or go with a large die (expensive).

AMD's top current 5700XT will be nothing compared to PS5 gpu, that will beat 2080 easy. 15TF comparable power from GCN, atleast.

 

[BRiT]

Do not compare console targets to power draw TDP of AMD GPUs since they are not tuned and mostly overvolted, causing excessive numbers. You need to look at finely tuned undervolted cards for a better idea.

 

[PSman1700]

Do not compare console targets to power draw TDP of AMD GPUs since they are not tuned and mostly overvolted, causing excessive numbers. You need to look at finely tuned undervolted cards for a better idea.

And that's why we are going to get RTX2080 atleast, expect 2080Ti level of performance.

 

[RDGoodla]

And that's why we are going to get RTX2080 atleast, expect 2080Ti level of performance.

I think that consoles optimization can give more performance than PC. If consoles can have 1.4X~1.5X more performance with the same hardware I expect next-gen high-end consoles reach RTX3060~3070 level.