Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora [PS5, XBSX|S, PC]
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Screw that then. I still cant comprehend why everybody is still using Twitter when alternatives exist now. It's a chicken and egg problem, but it demonstrates how ultimately willing most people are to go along with something terrible so long as they aren't negatively affected by it.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's obviously not terrible for the people that still want to use it. /shrug. What you consider terrible isn't necessarily what someone else would consider terrible. Likewise, what other people consider terrible you may not consider terrible.
Regards,
SB
Alongside Cyberpunk 2077 and Alan Wake 2, it's definitely one of the best. However, the other two games have significantly better lighting as the RT is much more elaborate and high resolution. Without a directly illuminated area nearby Avatars lighting can look a bit more monotonous than these games.
Lighting without RT doesn't appeal to me anymore. That's old-fashioned. RT GI is a must for me.
Now that many PC-only gamers have had access to Sony games for the first time some are surprised at the hype. After all the hype they would have expected much more. Most of the Sony games nothing extraordinary.
There are games that are longer than 10 hours and have better dialog. It is not impossible.
A game that has a lot of dialog where even ChatGPT can write better dialog than what the employees do there can't be an outstanding game in my opinion.
The most common complaint about Ubisoft games, which is pretty much common to all Ubisoft open world games like Assassin's Creed and Far Cry , is that the game fills the map with hundreds, if not thousands of side activities which are not interesting and lack variation. None of the games you mentioned do this.
It's not that there is a map which depicts things to do, it's having a map which depicts a handful of dull and repetitive activities, repeated hundreds of times and calling that interesting content. Personally, I just ignore that. I'm not that far into Avatar yet but I know that liberating the bases is the same mechanic as Far Cry and many Assassin's Creed games, and Ubisoft get a lot of stick because the same publisher has re-deployed the same mechanics across multiple IPs for about over a decade.
That is why it's always Ubisoft criticised. For the record, I like Assassin's Creed, and many of the Far Cry games. Avatar feels bit like the Far Cry Primal sequel we never got.
I don't see Spiderman and Horizon having less activities than The Divison.
Sure, many games have a lot of hollow activities. I don't need them either. This doesn't just apply to games with an open world. Shadow of the Tomb Raider and God or War also have such elements.
I always find it the worst when you meet up with a petty taskmaster for a mission and he then talks about something.
I also don't see that Ubisoft are the only ones making games like this. The other games I listed are more or less the same.
For me, these games are all more or less the same. If you want a game with an open world that is significantly better then you should play Cyberpunk 2077. It's a substantial game.
I also think that the recent changes in Cyberpunk 2077 have not improved the game. The game doesn't need more activities in the open world. The player should concentrate on the plot.
Some people always say that the world is empty with too few activities and there is nothing more to do after the campaign. No, that's not a problem! It's not a sandbox game. Unfortunately CD Projekt followed the cries of some players with the latest patches.
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Spiderman 2018 literally as soon as you go out into the world has you aranging three towers. Then the map fills with backpacks. Then AI generated crime activities and so on. Then all the missions are you going into a warehouse area, picking the handfull of enemies guarding the place. Then jump into a vent and crawl indoors to resolve the objective. Literally the entirety of the game uses this rudimentary and boring structure. Ocasionally broken up by the universally reviled stealth sections with other characters.
Horizon comits the same sins, same as every 1st party sony game, because they're all using the Far Cry 3 template, same as the rest of the industry - open world, activities, forts, crafting, gathering, skill trees, level up, towers, enemy tagging, batman vision, climbing, knee deep in the grass stealth, etc
Horizon uses ACreed from 15 yrs ago and the FC3 formula verbatim, near plagiarism levels. They even took the hacking puzzle from Watch Dogs verbatim. It feels like the Horizon devs made a board into the office with every design element from all the major Ubisoft games and copied all of them. They even have one of the worst elements of an open world which shows in the second pic above, besides the map littered with rote icons and activities, they're trying to spread the distance to anything as far as possible. You just get an objective then run 5 km. Then come back, run again.
The combat is some of the most boring and annoying crap ive seen yet. The dinos take faaaar to long to die, so every battle just doesnt fucking end. And the main actions you take is roll at attack, shoot weak spot. Roll, weak spot. Roll, weak spot. You use batman/witcher vision to see what you have to do, like you're a child, then roll and shoot the weak spot. I was running from every combat scenario i could because of how boring they were. They're not executing anything better. They're just not from ubisoft, so people look at them differently and they're finding every excuse possible. If not, what ammo would people have for online platform wars ? But even then, spiderman 2, ragnarock, horizon 2, zelda 2 and so on feel like they came and went much faster than their previous itterations, due to how mundane their design has become, even for their hardcore fans.
Horizon comits the same sins, same as every 1st party sony game, because they're all using the Far Cry 3 template, same as the rest of the industry - open world, activities, forts, crafting, gathering, skill trees, level up, towers, enemy tagging, batman vision, climbing, knee deep in the grass stealth, etc
Horizon uses ACreed from 15 yrs ago and the FC3 formula verbatim, near plagiarism levels. They even took the hacking puzzle from Watch Dogs verbatim. It feels like the Horizon devs made a board into the office with every design element from all the major Ubisoft games and copied all of them. They even have one of the worst elements of an open world which shows in the second pic above, besides the map littered with rote icons and activities, they're trying to spread the distance to anything as far as possible. You just get an objective then run 5 km. Then come back, run again.
The combat is some of the most boring and annoying crap ive seen yet. The dinos take faaaar to long to die, so every battle just doesnt fucking end. And the main actions you take is roll at attack, shoot weak spot. Roll, weak spot. Roll, weak spot. You use batman/witcher vision to see what you have to do, like you're a child, then roll and shoot the weak spot. I was running from every combat scenario i could because of how boring they were. They're not executing anything better. They're just not from ubisoft, so people look at them differently and they're finding every excuse possible. If not, what ammo would people have for online platform wars ? But even then, spiderman 2, ragnarock, horizon 2, zelda 2 and so on feel like they came and went much faster than their previous itterations, due to how mundane their design has become, even for their hardcore fans.
Well described. I also don't understand how you can't see that. All these games offer plenty of inane content. They're all not much different after all. Some may be a little blinded by love for Sony etc.
Ubisoft's "formula" seems to be well received when you see how well other games are received. It's only Ubisoft that people keep complaining about.
Ubisoft's "formula" seems to be well received when you see how well other games are received. It's only Ubisoft that people keep complaining about.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
The reason these common RPG-lite mechanics - explore, scavenge, craft, gear-up, level-up, skill-up - are used is because they seem incredibly popular and the games they deploy them effectively sell well. But it must suck if you don't like this because there are what gamers are pretty much expecting in large open games intended for exploration.Horizon comits the same sins, same as every 1st party sony game, because they're all using the Far Cry 3 template, same as the rest of the industry - open world, activities, forts, crafting, gathering, skill trees, level up, towers, enemy tagging, batman vision, climbing, knee deep in the grass stealth, etc
I've not played the original Horizon for a while but I don't recall the map being spammed with icons like whoa happens in Assassin's Creed and Far Cry. I am fairly sure the map is largely empty except for destination points and the maps fill in with features as you explore. In the you posted above, 99% of these icons don't represent activities, they map is recording which types of things you have encountered in any area like enemies, and fast travel points. That is kind of the point of maps!
The fact that you say 99% of those icons don't represent activities... is the definition of being spammed with icons. You have to turn 80% of what it spams you with off before you can start making sense of the damn thing.The reason these common RPG-lite mechanics - explore, scavenge, craft, gear-up, level-up, skill-up - are used is because they seem incredibly popular and the games they deploy them effectively sell well. But it must suck if you don't like this because there are what gamers are pretty much expecting in large open games intended for exploration.
I've not played the original Horizon for a while but I don't recall the map being spammed with icons like whoa happens in Assassin's Creed and Far Cry. I am fairly sure the map is largely empty except for destination points and the maps fill in with features as you explore. In the you posted above, 99% of these icons don't represent activities, they map is recording which types of things you have encountered in any area like enemies, and fast travel points. That is kind of the point of maps!
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
You asked why Ubisoft often get criticised for it, and I explained why. It's because most of their popular franchises are re-using the same mechanics, nobody here is claiming other games don't use these mechanics.
Look at Sony, they have a much more diverse portfolio of games - a few games use these mechanics but most don't.
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Inuhanyou
Veteran
Guerilla was criticized for Ubisoft formula. But people enjoyed it otherwise because of the graphics and the setting. Spiderman is more like prototype than a Ubisoft game and was spiderman so people didn't care
People criticize Ubisoft more because that's literally all their games are now and have been using the same formula in the same franchises for almost 18 years at this point. To say you don't know why people give Ubisoft crap but don't for other companies is ridiculous when they do give those companies crap just not to the same degree as the company that started the trend
Yes, the huge variety of review sites who all mostly agree Ubisoft games aren't as good are just blinded by irrational Sony love. That's definitely more likely than the Sony games just being better products.
The reason these common RPG-lite mechanics - explore, scavenge, craft, gear-up, level-up, skill-up - are used is because they seem incredibly popular and the games they deploy them effectively sell well. But it must suck if you don't like this because there are what gamers are pretty much expecting in large open games intended for exploration.
I've not played the original Horizon for a while but I don't recall the map being spammed with icons like whoa happens in Assassin's Creed and Far Cry. I am fairly sure the map is largely empty except for destination points and the maps fill in with features as you explore. In the you posted above, 99% of these icons don't represent activities, they map is recording which types of things you have encountered in any area like enemies, and fast travel points. That is kind of the point of maps!
Exactly, you can take out of the map all save point(fire) from the map and you have machine site with no objectives at all. HZD and HFW are easy to finish in less than 30 hours only doing the main mission. Finish all side quest is 45/60 hours max. In HFW, they try to have a good story for main and side quests, they aren't on CDProjekt level but much better than Ubi Soft.
For Horizon if you are good enough you don't need to roll all the time or to use the focus vision out of the two or three first time you fight a machine. For example, the Thunderjaw missile are destructible after launch or running you can avoid the attack and for example run and slide under the machine and shoot it from there. The biggest weakness of the two Horizon is traversal and I think they can do better with city but this is a technical limitation due to design the game around PS4 with HDD and a crappy CPU. Fleet end is much better than city on HZD or HFW.
All open world game can feel repetitive but you need to have a good or better great gameplay loop too and a good story for main and side quest. Spiderman 2 have better side quest than Spiderman 2018 where they were awful. Spiderman games have a good combat system and a great traversal system.
HZD
How long is Horizon Zero Dawn? | HowLongToBeat
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HFW
How long is Horizon Forbidden West? | HowLongToBeat
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AC Origins is ok
How long is Assassin's Creed Origins? | HowLongToBeat
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But AC Odyssey begins to go on the wrong side with a very long main story
How long is Assassin's Creed Odyssey? | HowLongToBeat
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AC Vahalla goes further into the bqd pacing and too long game(main story)...
How long is Assassin's Creed Valhalla? | HowLongToBeat
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EDIT: This is one of the weakness of The Witcher 3 a too long main story. I find Novigrad arc too long and I was happy to go to Skellige later.
TW3. But story and quest of CDProjekt games are great. And gameplay was ok.
Good story means good presentation too, great cutscene unlike HZD side quest for example...
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I honestly don't see what the issue is with all the side objectives. They're optional! If you don't want to do them - just don't. I get that people would complain if the world was empty and lifeless but not that there is too much, optional stuff to do. For my part I appreciate having lots of activities all over the map that I can divert to enroute to my main objective if I wish, it makes the world feel more alive. I rarely go out of my way to 'clear' all of those activities though because that just makes the world seem dead again.
Some games do it better than others. Some at least offer a bit more fleshed out storyline or some content. But generally speaking in a lot of open world games I tend to ignore a lot of the side stuff unless it's an enjoyable experience. It's just when it becomes a chore and a bore that it's a major turn off. And for some the overwhelming amount of stuff on the map can drive them nuts, everyone's different.
CDPR I feel gets it right with a lot of the side stuff. But even with then there's so much that I accept I won't get through it all. But that's the beautiful thing. I might end up doing it on another play through.
CDPR I feel gets it right with a lot of the side stuff. But even with then there's so much that I accept I won't get through it all. But that's the beautiful thing. I might end up doing it on another play through.
For some people it is very hard to ignore side content especially when there’s a big icon on the screen pointing to it. It might be a personality trait but some people would be very bothered by that. These companies are banking on exactly that compulsive need to check every box. It’s lazy and a little predatory IMO. What makes it particularly bad in Ubisoft games is that the side activities often constitute little to no actual gameplay or story.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
And some Ubisoft games are better than others at letting you turn off map icons for side or online objectives, which is the ideal. Then there are grind-fest mechanics like Assassin's Creed Odyssey, which is a damn amazing game until you hit the grind-fest of identifying cult members which is where I've checked out of the game twice twice. This feels like it should be an option side activity to track down extra loot but instead it's a repetitive obstacle in the mainline quest.
Assassin's Creed Valhalla is side quests a little better as there were a lot of very singular quests. I've bought Mirage, and a had a little play, but that looks like an improvement. I've had an explore of Avatar and that too looks good. Avatar made me want to replay Far Cry Primal, which is currently 75% off on Steam (so £10 basically until 20 December), so I grabbed that (having played on PS4), and I'm about there hours in and the map is only full of resources and I had to consciously pick a skill for that. Primal is not a clutterfest of side activities, things like rescues and ambushes appear organically as you explore, if you ignore them and move on they disappear. Perfect!
You can have a happy medium and Ubisoft have heavily supported that happy medium with gameplay choices in some games, then you get a new game as it's full regression. It's baffling.
Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - the big developer tech interview
Digital Foundry's Alex Battaglia interviews Massive's Nikolay Stefanov and Oleksandr Koshlo about Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora and the Snowdrop engine.
www.eurogamer.net