"ATI's progress on the 360 chip"

[Wunderchu]

A few months ago I discovered that a customer at my store works at ATI. Needless to say over the last few months I've asked him how things were going on the Xbox 360 front. He wasn't able to say much in terms of specifics prior to the official unvieling of the system but since then he's been able to give me some interesting tidbits. Today's was very intriguing...

Today when he came in I asked him if they were still busy on the 360 chip or whether they were basically done, having handed off the final design. He said they are still working very hard and in fact there were still some final specification decisions being made.

How so, I ask? Now I am not hugely knowledgable about chip design and manufacturing so forgive my layman's translation of what he told me. Apparently the yield on chip production is much higher than they had expected, and consequently they have the option to make a decision about the spec to shoot for.

Now I was under the impression that when they manufature the big "wafer" (I hope that's the right term) of chips that basically some percentage worked properly and some percentage did not and was thus junk. But he explained that in fact that it's more the case that a certain percentage of chips will work at the intended clock speed but that some of the others will work, but at a lower clock speed. These "slower" chips can still be used. They can be sold as slower, less expensive graphics card. Of course in the case of a console only those chips that meet the minimum specification can be used and the rest are useless for the consoles.

But apparently the yield is so much higher than they expected they basically can shoot for a higher clock speed and still achieve the yield they planned for. So instead of 500 Mhz (forgive me if I've gotten the units wrong...I am a layman here) they can possibly aim for 600 Mhz and still get the same yield they were shooting for originally. Alternatively, they could stick at the originally planned clock speed and simply have a higher percentage of useful chips and thus lower the cost per unit.

Clearly, either result is beneficial to Microsoft. The question is: which will MS choose? Faster chips or lower cost pre chip?

Anyway, just thought I'd pass that on. It would appear that things are going well on the ATI front.

[source: http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=356848 ]

 

[Farid]

A few months ago I discovered that a customer at my store works at ATI. Needless to say over the last few months I've asked him how things were going on the Xbox 360 front.

I stopped reading there.

Somebody should start a "Misc X360 (and one for PS3/Rev) Rumor mill thread" and post these kind of "infos" there.

 

[Acert93]

A few months ago I discovered that a customer at my store works at ATI. Needless to say over the last few months I've asked him how things were going on the Xbox 360 front.

I stopped reading there.

You have to give him a nod for believable creativity. Hoax, but a believable one. That is where 99% of internet hoax rumors die--they go wayyyy to far. This one tries to be at least believable. To bad most company reps do not put their job on the line by dropping insider info to store clerks!

I wish my friend in Seattle still was a part time security guard in Bill Gates uber mansion I could have fun with that!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

'Forgive me if the units are wrong' - for a technical know-nothing he's spot on with his use of terminology! But it's also not out of the question that something will get bumped up or down, so as far as rumours go it's benign and also meaningless.

"Breaking News - XB360 might be faster, but then again might not, nobody knows."

If you're gonna start a rumour, at least say 'XB360 will be faster because."

 

[EndR]

We shouldn´t be surprised of some "last minute changes". Xbox (and Gamecube) changed Mhz before release so the same could happen here.

I still hope that MS and ATI manage to squeeze in the FAST14-tech and bumps the Mhz to at least 600Mhz, that would give 360 some graphical edge and be more "future proof".. but still, as it is know it can still holds it own very well...

You never know...

 

[3roxor]

I see Sony having the clear edge in the last minute spec changes "routine".

 

[Acert93]

We shouldn´t be surprised of some "last minute changes". Xbox (and Gamecube) changed Mhz before release so the same could happen here.

I still hope that MS and ATI manage to squeeze in the FAST14-tech and bumps the Mhz to at least 600Mhz, that would give 360 some graphical edge and be more "future proof".. but still, as it is know it can still holds it own very well...

I believe Fast14 was all but dead in the 360. Announced too late. You are talking serious redesign to impliment such.

As for the speed, it really is not necessary to bumb it up on a consumer device. This is not a PC. They COULD bump it up, but my feeling is they would take yields over a speed bump.

 

[pc999]

I really want to know what paper will Fast 14 have in ATI, because those guy from Microprocessor report belived that they could use it in XB, so the time frame should be enough, meybe Rev will be really fast (or cheap).

About the topic a speed bump would be nice, if the price reflects on us too then a price cut or a midle term would be better. But probably MS will want all .

 

[c0_re]

I see Sony having the clear edge in the last minute spec changes "routine".

Yea well I hope so concidering it's comming out 6-12 monthes later

 

[Acert93]

I really want to know what paper will Fast 14 have in ATI, because those guy from Microprocessor report belived that they could use it in XB, so the time frame should be enough, meybe Rev will be really fast (or cheap).

Could it be that it is a tradeoff of speed vs. heat/power consumption then? Xenos uses 25W of power and I thought I read that it is passively cooled (heatsink + air movement in the case).

Maybe there is Fast14 under the hood, but the tradeoff was power consumption. There are limits to the power you can stuff in a small box.

 

[pc999]

Xenos uses 25W of power and I thought I read that it is passively cooled (heatsink + air movement in the case).

Only that.
Nice, that would mean that put a RSX (should be as hot as G70) would be very difficult, Right (if it is a power restrigement)? Thats make me think that if is really used F14 do have a small paper in it as they can go up and use it to have more performance.

 

[-NakedZ-]

This is GAF Insiders prior to E3 all over again.

- Z

 

[Geo]

"Wafer" he knows, but "mhz" is so techie he might screw it up? Puh-lease.

ATI does seem very pleased with yields (which is the basis of any successful lie --stay close enuf to the truth), so it might happen anyway.

 

[Pozer]

I really want to know what paper will Fast 14 have in ATI, because those guy from Microprocessor report belived that they could use it in XB, so the time frame should be enough, meybe Rev will be really fast (or cheap).

Could it be that it is a tradeoff of speed vs. heat/power consumption then? Xenos uses 25W of power and I thought I read that it is passively cooled (heatsink + air movement in the case).

Maybe there is Fast14 under the hood, but the tradeoff was power consumption. There are limits to the power you can stuff in a small box.

Doesn't the 360 have some sort of sealed coolant type design, ala heatpipe. I wouldn't be surprised to see sony and GC use a similar style coolant design. It seems atleast in the PC industry when competition rises so does the heat.

also, 9 out 10 times a console mhz change is a decrease. Sony is not exempt especailly after the PSP clock, which I know isn't a chip production problem but a battery/power consumption problem, but still is embarrasing. The only time I can remember a increase was the saturn which was an actual increase in mhz but a doubling of CPUs.

 

[ector]

also, 9 out 10 times a console mhz change is a decrease. Sony is not exempt especailly after the PSP clock, which I know isn't a chip production problem but a battery/power consumption problem, but still is embarrasing. The only time I can remember a increase was the saturn which was an actual increase in mhz but a doubling of CPUs.

Both GC and XBox got their clock speeds increased at the last minute.

 

[jvd]

Both GC and XBox got their clock speeds increased at the last minute.

they both had thier clocks decreased actually .



Anyway i don't believe this person. I do however believe the yields are good and I do believe that clock speeds can change . It all depends

 

[Pozer]

also, 9 out 10 times a console mhz change is a decrease. Sony is not exempt especailly after the PSP clock, which I know isn't a chip production problem but a battery/power consumption problem, but still is embarrasing. The only time I can remember a increase was the saturn which was an actual increase in mhz but a doubling of CPUs.

Both GC and XBox got their clock speeds increased at the last minute.

The nv2a went from 275 or 300 down to 233mhz (cant remember). I also think the Xcpu was suppose to be a 800 or 850. It's been so long ago it makes my head hurt to think about it though. GC had a small decrease also on the Flipper, I believe.

 

[aaaaa00]

The nv2a went from 275 or 300 down to 233mhz (cant remember). I also think the Xcpu was suppose to be a 800 or 850. It's been so long ago it makes my head hurt to think about it though. GC had a small decrease also on the Flipper, I believe.

If I remember correctly...

Xcpu was originally supposed to be 600 mhz, it was bumped to 733 mhz.
Xgpu was originally supposed to be 300 mhz, it was dropped to 233 mhz.

 

[akira888]

Likewise:

Gekko 400Mhz -> 485MHz
Flipper 200Mhz -> 162Mhz

 

[Gerry]

If I remember correctly...

Xcpu was originally supposed to be 600 mhz, it was bumped to 733 mhz.
Xgpu was originally supposed to be 300 mhz, it was dropped to 233 mhz.

I believe you'll find that the NV2a was only lowered from 250Mhz to 233Mhz; a pretty small decrease in clock speed.