ATI Going for Xbox2?

[aneep]

i'm betting GFFX will be quite a bit faster than "5%-10%" compared to Radeon 9700

a nice card from ATI though, esp. for the price

Quincy,
MS is sending out Xbox 2 dev kits already?

-aneep-

 

[Qroach]

That's what I heard, but they will be providing incremental updates until teh final hardware is ready ina few years. Sorta like the upgrade path they had for for the current xbox.

I hear only a few select developers will get anything this early...

 

[Legion]

since the Radeon 8500, it compares more to a GF4 than a GF3,

I'm not to sure about that. I would say it was closer to the Geforce 3 ti 500.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20010814/radeon8500-12.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020522/ti4400_4600-12.html#benchmarks

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020522/ti4400_4600-13.html

it was the best card when it hit shelves, then GF4 came out and topped it by as minor margin,

It topped the Geforce 3 and Geforce 3 Ti 500 by minor margins in cirtain circumstances. I really would't say it was that much better.

then the 9700 came out and practically doubled the performance of the GF4 TI4600, the GFFX will come out, and beat it by a small margin, then another ass whupping from ATI, etc etc etc..

Again in certain circumstance. There are even cirtain circumstances when the Geforce 4 comes out above.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/radeon9700-07.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/radeon9700-08.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/radeon9700-09.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/radeon9700-10.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/radeon9700-11.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020819/radeon9700-12.html

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=18
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=19
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=20
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=21
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1656&p=22

since when does GF4 win in price vs performance?

As you can see the price of the Geforce 4 varies. It appears the Radon 9700 isn't all that much higher then the Geforce 4 in a lot of tests. If you want to state the Radeon 9700 spanks the Geforce 4 then the Geforce 4 spanks the radeon 8500.

when you go under $100, your choices consist of GF4 MX(glorified GF2) or a Radeon 9000(pretty much an 8500), 9000 for $63 on pricewatch wins hands down

Perhaps in terms of price but in terms of sales?

[/quote]in the $150 range you have the GF4 TI4200 or the Radeon 9500
9500 wins hands down[/quote]

Again I am not to sure about that. There were recent price switches with various online dealers. As prices are modified with the coming Geforce FX you will see these various prices of Geforce 4s go down dramatically. We don't know as to why those prices at various stories has gone down. They may have just lowered their prices dramatically do to the fact they aren't selling well. Do think ATI makes as much of the sale of each card as Nvidia does with its Geforces to mass lower their prices? I don't think so. Remember in economics price/supply are affected by demand.

Most major retailers still have those horrible prices for the Radeons:

http://www.bestbuy.com/ComputersPer...phicsCards.asp?m=488&cat=521&scat=522

http://ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=227386

http://ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p...omputer+hardware&web_sub_dept=Video+Cards

This tells me some distributors are lowering their prices for a reason as the bigger name companies still have the dramatically high prices

I would like you to point out just where Nvidia is topping them at anything, by the time the NV30 hits the market, it will retail somewhere between $350-$450, only offer 5-10% performance over the 9700(while costing around $150-200 more),

That is why i would like to know the sales

5 - 10 % higher? I doubt that. Plus we will most likely see varients.

and everyone will buy it because, its Nvidia... they will use the excuse that its because Nvidias drivers(even though ATI's drivers have gotten better while Nvidias progressively worse,

lol i wouldn't say that at.

yes, you heard me right, the PC tech forums have been littered with complaints about the last THREE det releases, people forced to roll back 2 or 3 sets to keep stability).

And there are probably as many answers as there are complaints.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

yes, your right, the answers have been, roll back your drivers..

 

[Vince]

The NV30 seems to have legacy features for backwards compatbility, like post-pixel-shader register-combiners. MS might want Nvidia to carry this over into a future X-Box design.

Very well put, infact I was wondering why nVidia would keep them when the GFX was just announced - just didn't link the two ideas.

 

[Brimstone]

It could be possible that Microsoft is considering a different economic models for the X-Box 2. One big problem they are faced with is fabrication of the chips that can compete with the Sony/IBM/Toshiba alliance. Intel comes to my mind as a great partner for Microsoft because of Intels incredible fab technology and capacity.

The problem is what makes it worthwhile for Intel to care about the X-Box 2's success? If Microsoft shared a percentage of the software royalties with Intel, the X-Box 2 could be seen as an important revenue stream for Intel.

 

[roninja]

X

Imagine if the X Box2 contract did not go to Nvidia, or ATI ....could PowerVR make a come back in consoles. In there last set of accounts they state their intentions to make an effort in the console market, would be a long shot though for this small company.

 

[Peppermonkey]

Xbox 2 will be developed by Saddam
Gamecube will be developed by the teletubbies
PS3 will be developed by the underpants gnomes





I think Xbox 2 will still be developed by NVidia.

 

[Fox5]

I can say with almost complete confidence that nvidia will be used in the next microsoft system, and not ATI. If microsoft wants their system out in 2004/2005(to compete with/beat the ps3 out), then either they would have already started work on it, or are starting work on it right around now.(btw, if the ps3 turns out to be nothing more than an upgraded ps2, microsoft could release a year earlier and still be at least as powerful as ps3....or at least something like a sega genesis versus super nintendo....I doubt cell will be ready in time for the ps3)

 

[Dural]

IGN is also reporting that ATI will be in the next console from MS.

 

[Glonk]

IGN's being incredibly stupid.

They're using the same source as everyone else. An analyst company says ATI is "well positioned", then they managed to take this to mean MS favors ATI, and *THEN* in their sub-title they say MS selects ATI for the Xbox 2.

 

[wordsmyth]

I seriously doubt that MS has made any definite decisions regarding a supplier for the GPU in the next generation of Xbox. Most likely they are merely attempting to leverage ATI and NVIDIA against each other.

 

[megadrive0088]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7204

Microsoft promotes ATI as Nvidia Xbox 2 replacement

Dundee analysts suspect hardball game

By Mike Magee: Tuesday 14 January 2003, 21:17


ANALYSTS AT THE Dundee Securities Corporation said today that Canadian company ATI was "well positioned" to pick up future Xbox business.
Obviously, Microsoft is trying to lever Nvidia and ATI against each other – both of them being suppliers, or would be suppliers.

It's sort of a Sendo thing, or maybe a Zsoft thing, all over again, we suspect.

David Hodgson, a senior analyst at ATI, reports that the Vole will do "everything possible" to compete against the Playstation 3, although Microsoft is not well known for designing chips in the past.

Dundee said it believed the GPU supplier to Microsoft's next console – the Xbox 2, right? – will be compensated through some kind of Byzantine licensing deal.

According to Hodgson, Microsoft is trying to drive down the BOM (bill of materials) so it can sell its future product cheaper.

But we wonder who is playing hardball here. Nvidia faced off Microsoft before. Will ATI crumble for the extra revenues the next Xbox will bring?

We suspect Microsoft thinks its power is as it was before. Tell its suppliers what to do, and wait for the fallout... µ

* LET DUNDEE not forget that ArtX now belongs to ATI. It was instrumental in the Nintendo Gamecube's genesis, and know how to design ideal console software, allegedly.

This is just buisness as usual. MS will choose Nvidia in the end, to maintain XBox compatability. they're just trying to make Nvidia sweat and bow down to MS demands.

 

[_phil_]

I think they should buy Nvidia,to get compatibility,plus cost reduction control.

 

[Qroach]

I agree Phil. The way I thought it would happen was that nvidia buys AMD, and then MS swallows both.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Review of Nvida FX Ultra

ouch, as I said, very minor performance difference, and being the R300 has better memory, its safe to say the R350 that is rumored to beat the Nvidia FX out, will tear it to shreds, so I stand by my statement that going ATI is the smartest thing MS can do, they can save money and get the best performance.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

10-20% performance difference is marginal. Consumers won't care and it shouldn't factor into the decision at all IMO.