Are we on a path of loosing control of our hardware.

[Fox5]

You don't think China won't implement their own DRM? Or that their chips would be at all competitive with what Intel and AMD offer? You'd probably be better off with old hardware.

 

[silence]

You don't think China won't implement their own DRM? Or that their chips would be at all competitive with what Intel and AMD offer? You'd probably be better off with old hardware.

urmm..... lets see.... what if chinese govermant nationalise semiconducter industry in 2007 for "national security" reasons and simply put shitloads of chips without DRM on market?

China might wanna filter internet and everything, but i am sure as hell they _CANT_ afford to be pushed against wall with DRM and paying for every program installed there.... they are growing fast cause of...guess what...CHEAP LABOR... which means they pay workers shit compered to USA/EU, now if you wanna take away from those workers any chance they might play games and listen to music or watch new movies... they might get very angry crowd....

and knowing communist regimes, they arent too fond of angry crowds....

and this isnt just China.... eastern Europe, middle east, south america, Russia, India, africa....
there are simply too many people that CANT afford software at prices that are acceptable in USA/EU.....

fuck... new games cost more and more even in USA/EU.... try fucking Photoshop for example.... some people need to work YEARS to afford licence....

DRM is all nice and groovy for USA/EU, but the rest of the world?

 

[Fox5]

China may not care about piracy, but I'd imagine they'd like the ability to have greater control over what people's computers do, or to be able to see what people are doing with their computers.

China could very well put out something much worse than DRM, because they're interested in protecting more than just copy rights.

 

[Frank]

China may not care about piracy, but I'd imagine they'd like the ability to have greater control over what people's computers do, or to be able to see what people are doing with their computers.

China could very well put out something much worse than DRM, because they're interested in protecting more than just copy rights.

True. But, like with everything, the tools don't restrict how they're used. And the current way the industry is planning to use DRM is just as nasty. The main difference is, that it is the corporations that do all that. Who are probably less restricted by things like fairness than governments. They mainly look at their bottom line and use the tools they have to maximize that.

I'm not saying their intents are malicious by nature, just that they don't care. Which is probably the same point you wanted to make for the Chinese government.

 

[Fox5]

China may not care about piracy, but I'd imagine they'd like the ability to have greater control over what people's computers do, or to be able to see what people are doing with their computers.

China could very well put out something much worse than DRM, because they're interested in protecting more than just copy rights.

True. But, like with everything, the tools don't restrict how they're used. And the current way the industry is planning to use DRM is just as nasty. The main difference is, that it is the corporations that do all that. Who are probably less restricted by things like fairness than governments. They mainly look at their bottom line and use the tools they have to maximize that.

I'm not saying their intents are malicious by nature, just that they don't care. Which is probably the same point you wanted to make for the Chinese government.

Well, at least the US and European companies have to answer to their governments, the Chinese government really doesn't have to answer to anyone, nor would they even have to say they're including something DRM like in their products.

 

[silence]

Well, at least the US and European companies have to answer to their governments, the Chinese government really doesn't have to answer to anyone, nor would they even have to say they're including something DRM like in their products.

once again, you are looking from USA/EU POV.... chinese might put something there, but they wont go for DRM as western corps want it.....
its damn fucking simple....
out of 1.2 billion chinese , how many can afford latest version of Photoshop?
or to pay for movies/music downloads?

VERY VERY few.

Chine will crack down on "disident" sites and filter such traffic, but DRM as western corps envision it, has no chance there.....

if you were rulling nation of 1.2 billion people.... you wouldnt like to piss them off with something like DRM.....
BTW :: same goes for India, Russia and acctually everyone outside USA/EU.....(even some new EU countries cant afford to risk this shit).


simple.... just look at bigger picture......

 

[Fox5]

Well, at least the US and European companies have to answer to their governments, the Chinese government really doesn't have to answer to anyone, nor would they even have to say they're including something DRM like in their products.

once again, you are looking from USA/EU POV.... chinese might put something there, but they wont go for DRM as western corps want it.....
its damn fucking simple....
out of 1.2 billion chinese , how many can afford latest version of Photoshop?
or to pay for movies/music downloads?

VERY VERY few.

Chine will crack down on "disident" sites and filter such traffic, but DRM as western corps envision it, has no chance there.....

if you were rulling nation of 1.2 billion people.... you wouldnt like to piss them off with something like DRM.....
BTW :: same goes for India, Russia and acctually everyone outside USA/EU.....(even some new EU countries cant afford to risk this shit).


simple.... just look at bigger picture......

So you think enforcement of copyrights is worse than censorship of anything that the government disagrees with? And theoretically, DRM like technologies could be used for spying purposes, so the US wouldn't want Chinese computers and China wouldn't want US computers.

 

[silence]

So you think enforcement of copyrights is worse than censorship of anything that the government disagrees with? And theoretically, DRM like technologies could be used for spying purposes, so the US wouldn't want Chinese computers and China wouldn't want US computers.

copyright is last of chinese, russian, indian and many other govermants issue....
China for sure wouldnt want DRM comps with DRM chips and mobos in their offices.... it isnt accident that their are making their own "Red Flag" Linux distro and that they are working with South Korea and Japan to push Linux...in timeframe that is just before release of Longhorn.

yes, chinese might put some nasty shit into their chips, but it wont be copyright theyare after... so i think they might as well make "domestic" chips to control population and "export" chips without this kind of control....

there was article that chinese govermant ordered complete move to Linux by 2008 for ALL govermant branches.... coincidence?
sure


DRM can and prolly will work in USA/EU, but outside.... people simply CANT afford premium prices of software....
decent web development platform (software) costs more then 4 way Opteron server.... thats crazy....

if software companies cant accept this reality, then DRM is doomed to fail....

 

[Frank]

So you think enforcement of copyrights is worse than censorship of anything that the government disagrees with?

It would depend on what you value most: democracy (ie. what the majority of the people do and want), or unrestricted power to the rich. The latter is the ideal of capitalism, and why communism won't work.

It might be the most important job for democratic governments to make sure a small but powerful group of people isn't oppressing the rest by whatever means they can think of, as long as they gain something by it.

But you might want or need socialism to make that point of view have value.

 

[RussSchultz]

It would depend on what you value most: democracy (ie. what the majority of the people do and want), or unrestricted power to the rich. The latter is the ideal of capitalism, and why communism won't work.

People want democracy, and that's why communism won't work.

Your views on all this seems to come straight out of a marxist handbook written by somebody who has only a childs understanding of the world beyond catchy slogans.

 

[Fox5]

Democracy and communism don't have to be mutually exclusive, just the way communism has always been implemented and thought of pretty much makes it exclusive from democracy.

 

[RussSchultz]

Democracy and communism don't have to be mutually exclusive, just the way communism has always been implemented and thought of pretty much makes it exclusive from democracy.

If there was a way where people volunteered to live in an ideal communist society, and could opt out at any time, then I agree, communism and democracy can exist at the same time in the same society.

However, if not, it requires tyranny to keep the populace from engaging in free market activity, accumulating wealth, and expecting to get be rewarded based on their contribution. And that, where practical meets theoretical and we end up with Stalisnism--time and time again.

 

[Dr. Ffreeze]

DiGuru,

It would depend on what you value most: democracy (ie. what the majority of the people do and want), or unrestricted power to the rich. The latter is the ideal of capitalism,

Man your ideals are out there. Not much more to be said other than, wow I am stunned that someone with your intelect would actually believe this.

Could the idea of capitalism simply be to let the market reward those that work hard and find a better way?

 

[Dr. Ffreeze]

silence,

/me yawns...

there is also simple solution, dont buy DRM components. i know i wont.

I agree except that I will buy DRM hardware. To only be able to use what you pay for is no big deal really.

 

[epicstruggle]

silence,

/me yawns...

there is also simple solution, dont buy DRM components. i know i wont.

I agree except that I will buy DRM hardware. To only be able to use what you pay for is no big deal really.

yep, if you only use things you pay for there is no big deal. Its thieves like silence, diguru and digi that will be effected.

epic

 

[Frank]

DiGuru,

It would depend on what you value most: democracy (ie. what the majority of the people do and want), or unrestricted power to the rich. The latter is the ideal of capitalism,

Man your ideals are out there. Not much more to be said other than, wow I am stunned that someone with your intelect would actually believe this.

Could the idea of capitalism simply be to let the market reward those that work hard and find a better way?

While your experiences with commercial people might have gone well, mine have not. So, I'm pretty much thinking at the moment, that most of them are out there to take advantage from you any way they can.

But I agree, that some of them might be decent human beings. I would like to meet one of those, and ask for a job.

 

[ndoogoo]

Could the idea of capitalism simply be to let the market reward those that work hard and find a better way?

Yes, it is just a shame it has no conscience.

 

[Frank]

yep, if you only use things you pay for there is no big deal. Its thieves like silence, diguru and digi that will be effected.

epic

Ok. Ten times wasn't enough? You're a wanna-be manager, I take it? Or just a dummy?

Listen carefully, epic. I will say this only once. Downloading media is perfectly legal in my country. Got it?

But I guess you think money is power and rules all, as that made you from an illegal alien into a law-abiding US citizen. Can't have poor people have illegal ideas above their caste, can you?

 

[RussSchultz]

I will say this only once. Downloading media is perfectly legal in my country. Got it?

I doubt it. The Netherlands is a signator of the Berne Convention. That treaty demands upholding copyrights.

 

[epicstruggle]

yep, if you only use things you pay for there is no big deal. Its thieves like silence, diguru and digi that will be effected.

epic

Ok. Ten times wasn't enough? You're a wanna-be manager, I take it? Or just a dummy?

Why do you frown on the fact that your a thief and are so called out? You steal others hard work without compensating them for it. Its especially bad when you admit it on this forum as it is frequently visited by the very people you steal from.

epic