Are PCs holding back the console experience? (Witcher3 spawn)

[Shifty Geezer]

You may want to debate that with John Carmack, he disagrees and has spoken about the history of first person shooters many times. I've never seen a definition of an FPS as having to be "free-roam" or indeed requiring 360 degree movement in one or two planes.

Points of view. John Carmack is no more right on the definition than anyone else. These nouns/terms exist for people to talk about the subject, and the definitions are whatever people use them as. Different people can have different definitions for the same words too, so to any ordinary person talking about food, a raspberry is a berry, whereas to a botanist it's an etaerio and not a berry.

For me as a user of computer games, there's a significant difference between a grid-based tile wanderer with forward-only attack and a free-aim shooter. Captive on Amiga was a very different game with very different play style to Wolfenstein 3D. That's one perspective, and I don't claim it's the only one, but people need to be clear on their definitions of what something is before claiming what the first iteration of that concept was. Especially in a discussion where it's pretty easy to change the definition to fit the argument.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Points of view. John Carmack is no more right on the definition than anyone else.

In social structures the opinions of those who create or significantly contribute to the creation of something carry more weight than those who don't. This is a consequence of civilisation's deference to experience and knowledge. That doesn't mean other's opinions don't matter but as a component of debate, limiting or refining definitions mis-debate effectively renders most debate moot.

These nouns/terms exist for people to talk about the subject, and the definitions are whatever people use them as. Different people can have different definitions for the same words too, so to any ordinary person talking about food, a raspberry is a berry, whereas to a botanist it's an etaerio and not a berry.

But both people clearly know what a raspberry is. You're attempting to add specific requirements to the definition of a genre thereby limiting its definition and how it's recognisably been used to describe games present and past. I counter by saying you need to define "free roam" in a way that otherwise not conflict the genre as it applies to past games otherwise you're simply defining a sub genre.

Here are some definitions of Frist Person Shooter that I found. I genuinely could not find a single definition that included free roam.

Spoiler

• a type of video game in which the player assumes the field of vision of the protagonist, so that the game camera includes the character's weapon, but the rest of the character model is not seen - dictionary.com
• First-person shooter (FPS) is a video game genre centered on gun and projectile weapon-based combat through a first-person perspective; that is, the player experiences the action through the eyes of the protagonist - Wikipedia.
  
• A first person shooter (FPS) is a genre of action video game that is played from the point of view of the protagonist. FPS games typically map the gamer's movements and provide a view of what an actual person would see and do in the game - Techopedia.
  
• An FPS is a computer game genre that puts the player in a first-person perspective and usually involves shooting down opponents - Urban dictionary.

If we accept the definitions of the minority (or the one) then communications will collapse due to the lack of clearly defined meaning brought through the weight of different interpreations. I would consider contributing to debate under such terms but first I would have to insist that you read DSoup's Superior dictionary with my definitions of terms Likewise I would be delighted to read Shifty's Scolar's Dictionary

For me as a user of computer games, there's a significant difference between a grid-based tile wanderer with forward-only attack and a free-aim shooter.

And I would agree, there are clearly sub-genres within first person shooter. You said "free roam" but in Maze Runner you are free to roam within the maze.

TL;DR - I completely understand your point but I don't think it helps

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Here are some definitions of Frist Person Shooter that I found. I genuinely could not find a single definition that included free roam.

Now go look up some games as people are describing them. Search for FPS on Amiga and you get Doom clones. Captive being a First Person Shooter is a definition varying by gamer. Hence outside of academic circles, FPS has a distinction, seems to me.

By free roam I mean first person aiming of the reticule in 360 degrees in one plane at least. The aiming is a significant, I'd dare say quintessential, part of the modern first person shooter. The tile-based games involved no aiming, unless there was one with cursor-based aim on a tile-based motion of which I think there was on computer (found one). As such, I argue that the modern FPS started with the first game to have the first person perspective and free aim, not shooting locked to cardinal directions. Those other games would be precursors but not the same thing as a modern FPS, categorised as 'first person' but not 'first person shooter'. Of course, where one chooses to draw the line is a matter for disagreement discussion. However, that discussion is necessary to achieve consensus in this thread before settling on a history where the creation of the first person shooter can be dated.

Or at least, that difference of opinion should be recognised when contributors are all arguing from different perspectives. One can't assume everyone's reading from the same page of the same hymn book in the same Church of Game Taxonomy when they use a descriptive term.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Now go look up some games as people are describing them. Search for FPS on Amiga and you get Doom clones. Captive being a First Person Shooter is a definition varying by gamer. Hence outside of academic circles, FPS has a distinction, seems to me.

I think you are confusing actual history with the popular consensus or recollection of history. Wolfenstein 3D and Doom put the first person genre on the map while perhaps, until then, nobody had realised it was a thing.

That's the problem with using people as a point of reference for defining history. I bet if you asked 10 people what the first motor car was most was say Henry Ford's model T in 1908. Few would give the correct answer of Karl Benz's Benz Patent-Motorwagen in 1886 Of you insist a motor car should have four wheels, Karl Benz's model Velo in 1894. Popularity it seems, is everything.

But I think we've done this to death and I have to finish my Grolsch and kill this monster with my silver sword

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Wolfenstein 3D and Doom put the first person genre on the map while perhaps, until then, nobody had realised it was a thing.

Captive was well known two years before Wolfenstein. No-one called it an FPS back then. 'First person action RPG' was more the description, necessitating a new name for the name gameplay of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

Language is defined by the people who use it, and not academics and philosophers. Words don't come into existence with a polite and well defined new entry in a dictionary. The term 'FPS' was coined by people wanting to categorise their games for comparison, and they're the ones who have defined (not an absolute definition, but an organically constructed and prone-to-change definition accrued by use) the terms. Someone somewhere coined the phrase, someone repeated it, and via use in relation to particular titles the word gained a definition. Then academics deconstructed the word in a way it was never constructed and tried to analyse its meaning to define it, and retroactively applied it to categorise historical games. It means 'Doom clone', as per the linked chart (or rather, it can mean both 'Doom clone' and 'game with first person perspective that involves shooting things'). Just like 'Casual gamer' and 'Core gamer' and other terms born out of necessity long before they had a clear definition, and then we run around trying to determine what those words with very personal connotations mean when we use them in discussion. Or all the additional entries in a dictionary for the meanings words get beyond their original ones...

In conclusion, one can't rely rely on terms/phrases that aren't commonly understood from their dictionary definition. If one wants to talk about when a game genre came into existence, one should probably start with a definition rather than a name of that definition, until we have a solid reference work that clear describes the genres in accepted terms that everyone can link to.

And the reason I've harped on about this is not to nit pick but to illustrate the issues some are facing in this and other discussions, and how some arguments disagreements can arise from a simple phrase or initialism that run into verbose semantic discussions losing the thread point. Like this one! As a moderator I do want to aid discussion by pointing out where some clarity can help.

 

[Rodéric]

it's wasn't FPS, it was doom like
At least in magazines back in the days, changed to FPS later on. (After Quake maybe ? or Duke Nukem 3D ?)

 

[Arwin]

Did some searching:

18 aug 2009: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/spin-off-console-hardware-holding-back-pc-graphics.46759/
28 mar 2010: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/are-consoles-holding-back-pc-gaming.48465/
26 Apr 2012: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/current-consoles-vs-high-end-pcs.52624/
21 feb 2013: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/pc-gaming-after-nextgen-consoles.53770/

 

[Shifty Geezer]

it's wasn't FPS, it was doom like
At least in magazines back in the days, changed to FPS later on. (After Quake maybe ? or Duke Nukem 3D ?)

Yep. My link shows a chart of Usenet posts and prevalence of Doom-like versus FPS. Very nicely demonstrates the evolution of the language as only modern computer-tracked stats can.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So you're saying it appeared in the arcade, then on consoles then eventually PC.

Nope, as I know I played some on computer's prior to Starship appearing on Atari 2600.

This should be be easy enough to cite with some research. Most early video games, particularly those that were first in their genres, are well documented.

Not as easy as you think for more obscure games on more obscure platforms. There is no easy to look at definitive list of games that came out on the TRS-80 which predates the Atari 2600 by a few months or the Apple I which predates it by more than a year. And that's not to mention the other kit computers the predate the Apple I, albeit at far greater cost than the Apple I.

In relation to RPGs you said "Those started on computers." which I took to be a definitive statement that they were an original genre started on PCs. Surprisingly there were RPGs on the 2600, not the first but Dragonstomper (1982) was one.

That's an easy one to pass being an RPG fan. The Temple of Apshai was released in 1979, and that's not even the first RPG to appear on computers. More famous were Ultima (1981) and Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981). All of which were far more RPG than Dragonstomper.

LoL, I found this quote quite amusing from the Wiki.

The review went on to praise that the "wonder of Dragonstomper lies in the magnitude and variety of its environments, which provide a depth of gameplay usually reserved for home computer titles of this genre

So very true, although their fondness for the game doesn't match my experiences with it on the Atari 2600 since I also had a PC at the time. It didn't even come close to matching the experience offered by Ultima or Wizardry, much less the far older Temple of Apshai.

So anything that first ran on anything other than is clearly defined as a console of personal computer counts as neither? Well that will certainly limit the field.

As said I only did that as you were the first to stray out of the boundaries of video games. Since we had been talking about video games, I had assumed that everything was in relation to video games until you brought in pen and paper RPGs at which point everything was fair game.

But if we limit it to video games. Then that still makes it difficult to think of many genres that got their start on consoles. Unless you continue to narrow the field in such a way as to make this whole thing a bit of a mockery.

Regards,
SB

 

[Malo]

I think Ultima Underworld should take the crown since it was released before Doom, had up/down tilt view and even full z-axis terrain which Doom couldn't do yet.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Captive was well known two years before Wolfenstein. No-one called it an FPS back then. 'First person action RPG' was more the description, necessitating a new name for the name gameplay of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

I have never heard of Captive but perhaps because I likely had an Amiga around that time and the internet was a different beast. Perhaps it was well known in the PC scene but it slipped past me.

Language is defined by the people who use it, and not academics and philosophers. Words don't come into existence with a polite and well defined new entry in a dictionary.

Creators of words define their meaning, not the people who use them although some words do change meaning over time, 'gay' is a prime example. There are more than 7 billion people on the planet and the majority use language every hour of every day. If they were all defining and re-defining the meaning of language we'd have hundreds of thousands of distinct dialects instead of a few hundred. Most people learn what a word means and use it accordance to the definition.

The term 'FPS' was coined by people wanting to categorise their games for comparison, and they're the ones who have defined (not an absolute definition, but an organically constructed and prone-to-change definition accrued by use) the terms.

'First Person Shooter' was initially a descriptive term - an ordinal and two nouns. It describes what we now distinctly recognise as a game genre. It was a short apt description that stuck, much like Third Person Shooter. This isn't defining language, this is using language to convey meaning which is what language is for.

In conclusion, one can't rely rely on terms/phrases that aren't commonly understood from their dictionary definition. If one wants to talk about when a game genre came into existence, one should probably start with a definition rather than a name of that definition, until we have a solid reference work that clear describes the genres in accepted terms that everyone can link to.

I provided a handful of links to definitions of first person shooter above. My use of the term fits every definitiona nd as I said above, I couldn't find a single definition that includes your proposed refinements.

I can only repeat my previous post: You're attempting to add specific requirements to the definition of a genre thereby limiting its definition and how it has recognisably been used to describe games past and present. We can't advance until you address this. The definitions out there do not reconcile with your proposed refinement. You're trying to redefine a genre that's been well defined in multiple dictionary and reference sites for over a decade. So, no

Yep. My link shows a chart of Usenet posts and prevalence of Doom-like versus FPS. Very nicely demonstrates the evolution of the language as only modern computer-tracked stats can.

Again, this is language being used and not evolution of language. Is there are right way to describe a first person shooter? No, is there a generally widely recognised term that happens to be concise? Yes. I don't know if you've noticed but people tend often tend to drift towards shorter word use in communication. How many people use 'correct' over 'right' ? One has a specific meaning the other is an ambiguous adjective that can muddy communication.

Nope, as I know I played some on computer's prior to Starship appearing on Atari 2600.

You were less certain earlier ("I now it pre-dated Star Raiders, but can't remember if it pre-dated Starship (which I never played)") but unless I overlooked it you have not named the game. And the question really is, did you play this game on a computer before a console because it the genre appeared on computers first? I first played RPGs on a Commodore 64 but had I known about Dragonstomper on the 2600 I may have played a RPG earlier. Without a name and publication date all we have is your 35 year old memory

Not as easy as you think for more obscure games on more obscure platforms.

There are dozens, probably hundreds, of sites dedicated to this sort of thing. This is what Google is for.

As said I only did that as you were the first to stray out of the boundaries of video games. Since we had been talking about video games, I had assumed that everything was in relation to video games until you brought in pen and paper RPGs at which point everything was fair game.

As I said above, in relation to RPGs you said "Those started on computers." which I took to be a definitive statement that it was an original genre that began on PCs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I have never heard of Captive but perhaps because I likely had an Amiga around that time and the internet was a different beast.

Like many I played it on Amiga. It required and came with the 512 Kb trapdoor expansion.

Creators of words define their meaning, not the people who use them although some words do change meaning over time, 'gay' is a prime example.

Nope. There's generally no such thing as a creator, although these days there can be. Most words are variations and corruptions on older words, and new words and meanings are brought by unconventional use. I own an Edwardian dictionary and it's very interesting to see how words meanings change. 'Paraphrase' is one of the most extreme. We use it now to mean to rewrite, very often in more succinct form, to another style or reference. The definition in 1905 was, "an explanation of a text or passage in fuller and clearer terms."

People learn words from their peers. If their peers use the word wrong (Chinese whispers, introduction of noise to the signal), the understanding of the word and subsequent application can be wrong. But if people use the word in a way, then it's not wrong. Words are the sounds people use to convey information. There's no law stopping people reusing a sound for a different meaning. As long as it works, people go with it, and human language balances nicely (a word which used to mean "silly") with adaptation and consistency. Much to @London-boy 's annoyance, people's misuse of 'literally' has resulted in the definition changing, and now the OED say's it can be used for emphasis rather than it's literal meaning.

'First Person Shooter' was initially a descriptive term - an ordinal and two nouns. It describes what we now distinctly recognise as a game genre.

It has a specific definition when used as such of a Doom like. My link showed this perfectly. It was a phrase not used before Doom and then used in increasing amount after Doom.

Anyway, you're not going to change your view so let's do this your way for the sake of discussion and I'll try and do your job for you.

The argument is that modern games (those genres we play now regardless of when they were invented) mostly originated on consoles, right? Taking for example the games COD and Halo recognisable by their specific similar play style, the argument is whether console or PC spawned this genre. The examples of early FPSes (using your textbook definition) show the existence of FPS on consoles in the 70s. However, the sub-genre we now play is a very different game - a first-person shooter with free aiming where the aiming is a significant part of the gameplay. So let's name this subgenre so that we can reference it*. Have people ever refered to this style of game (sub genre of FPS) by a particular name or phrase? Yep, let's go with 'Doom-like' meaning ' a first-person shooter with free aiming where the aiming is a significant part of the gameplay'. Where did the modern Doom-like originate? (clue's in the name )

* It already has a name, the FPS.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Like many I played it on Amiga. It required and came with the 512 Kb trapdoor expansion.

Alas, still never hear of it. But back then if a magazine you read didn't make a big deal out of a game it often got overlooked.

Nope. There's generally no such thing as a creator, although these days there can be.

Most words are variations and corruptions on older words, and new words and meanings are brought by unconventional use. I own an Edwardian dictionary and it's very interesting to see how words meanings change. 'Paraphrase' is one of the most extreme. We use it now to mean to rewrite, very often in more succinct form, to another style or reference. The definition in 1905 was, "an explanation of a text or passage in fuller and clearer terms."

I do not recognise this definition at all, nor do I personally know anybody who does. My understanding is that of your 1905 diction. My OS X dictionary (Dictionary of Oxford English) defines paraphrase as:

paraphrase |ˈparəfreɪz
verb [ with obj. ]
express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity: you can either quote or paraphrase literary texts.​

People learn words from their peers. If their peers use the word wrong (Chinese whispers, introduction of noise to the signal), the understanding of the word and subsequent application can be wrong. But if people use the word in a way, then it's not wrong.

It's wrong. The reason there are clear definitions of words is so that language can be correctly interpreted and understood. Do people misuse words? Sure, all the time; listening to some of the school kids on my daily commute makes me wince and also really make me wish I'd brought my headphones. People do often hear a word and not fully understand it's meaning in the context it was used then try to use incorrectly. In many places incorrect use will be pointed out by others who do know the correct meaning but in some closed social or peer groups, where others do not have contrary knowledge, it can gain traction.

Should society readily redefine words to accommodate the few who do not understand their meaning? No, that would be ridiculous. It would take overwhelming mis-use for a phrase to be accepted as as different and again, the word 'gay' is one of a few that springs to mind. If civilisation widely did as you propose then we would have hundreds of thousands of distinct dialects.

It was bad when British English defined a billion as 1,000,000,000,000 while American English as 1,000,000,000 but eventually British English fell into line because it was easier to come a billionaire using the American definition (true story ).

Words are the sounds people use to convey information. There's no law stopping people reusing a sound for a different meaning. As long as it works, people go with it, and human language balances nicely (a word which used to mean "silly") with adaptation and consistency. Much to @London-boy 's annoyance, people's misuse of 'literally' has resulted in the definition changing, and now the OED say's it can be used for emphasis rather than it's literal meaning.

Phonetics are sounds, words are both spoken and written. And no there's "no law" preventing two different words having the same, or very similar, phonetic pronunciation.The English language is littered with homonyms (words which have the same spelling and pronunciation, but have different meanings), homophones (words which have the same pronunciation, but different spellings and meanings) and homographs (words that are spelt the same, but have different pronunciation and meanings).

These are, literally, different things to what you propose.

It has a specific definition when used as such of a Doom like. My link showed this perfectly. It was a phrase not used before Doom and then used in increasing amount after Doom.

Is your argument here, it's on a website so it must be true? Please tell me it isn't But I think you're using interchangeably 'First Person Shooter' as a description expressed by use of the words and the phrase as a genre. As a description 'FPS 'is only as good as the specific words and their meaning. The genre is well defined in lots of places, none of which support your preferred redefinition.

The argument is that modern games (those genres we play now regardless of when they were invented) mostly originated on consoles, right? Taking for example the games COD and Halo recognisable by their specific similar play style, the argument is whether console or PC spawned this genre. The examples of early FPSes (using your textbook definition) show the existence of FPS on consoles in the 70s. However, the sub-genre we now play which is a very different game. So let's name this subgenre so that we can reference it*. Did people ever refer to this style of game by a particular name or phrase? Yep, let's go with 'Doom-like' meaning a first-person shooter with free aiming where the aiming is a significant part of the gameplay. Where did the modern Doom-like originate? (clue's in the name )

No, but it's not bad. Somehow the discussion took a terrifying direction into the specifics, origins and evolution (or not) of language and what appeared on what platform first. What I meant when I said "consoles were the birth of modern video games" was that consoles popularised video games for the average consumer. My mum and dad are both intelligent people but neither will use a computer because "they are complicated" yet my dad surprised me one day by bringing home a new Atari 2600. I was 8 or 9 at the time didn't even know this thing existed.

While there were lots of computers around before and at the same time as the Atari 2600, Vertex and ColecoVision (the big three in the UK as I recall), something about game consoles captured people's imaginations. Perhaps it was simple controller and focus on fun rather than typing in commands. If you ask a thousamd random people about the first video games, a bunch will have no idea, a fair bunch are likely going o reference a late 1970s console and real few will mention the Apple II, Commodore PET or Tandy TRS-80. I doubt any will say the Altair, unless Bill Gates is one of that thousand people.

As I said my post about the motorcar and Ford and Benz, popularity is everything.

 

[Rodéric]

Not sure about popularity, I remember the Amstrad CPC, the C64 and Atari ST being very popular, and they were no console... (there were also NEC MSX, Amiga 500...)

If I have to take my family as an exemple, we have many computers but very few consoles, we also had computers many many years before I got the first console.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Not sure about popularity, I remember the Amstrad CPC, the C64 and Atari ST being very popular, and they were no console... (there were also NEC MSX, Amiga 500...)

I mean the term in popular consciousness. The Atari 2600, at least the iconic original design with faux wooden paneling, is probably a product a lot of people would recognise or recall. Perhaps the Commodore 64 as well, it once held the record as the largest selling single model of computer ever. Here in the UK AMSTRAD computers were genuinely in third place behind the 64 and ZX Spectrum with the MSX, Dragon, BBC Electron (and many I've forgotten) having a very limited market presence. I'm sure markets were different elsewhere although the 64 sold gangbuster numbers.

If I have to take my family as an exemple, we have many computers but very few consoles, we also had computers many many years before I got the first console.

Sure, but "what did you own first" is a different question to "what machines do you recall at the start of video games". It helped somewhat that the Atari 2600 (and ET) were attributed to the first video game industry collapse. It was hugely exaggerated of course but did break the onslaught of new consoles for a couple of years.

 

[Rodéric]

Then it would probably be a NES or SNES IMHO.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

This should be be easy enough to cite with some research. Most early video games, particularly those that were first in their genres, are well documented.

Believe it or not, not everything exists on the internet even if it sometimes appears to. There is no definitive list of TRS-80 games on the internet, there are some partial lists (like the one on Wikipedia which doesn't list release dates), however. There is also no definitive list of all software you could run on the Apple I (Wikipedia has a partial list of Apple ][ games but not Apple 1 games, for example), or other kit computers of the time (good luck even getting a partial list for some of these).

Heck, right now I've been spending 2 months trying to track down a horror book that was published in 1988 that I read, but can't remember the title of. It is amazingly difficult to do as something as simple as trying to find a comprehensive list of all books published in 1988 is incredibly difficult, much less a specific genre of all books published in 1988.

Similarly there is no definitive list of all games that were playable on mainframe computers in the 60's and 70's. Only the ones that certain people remember fondly are ever mentioned or written about.

Sports games, for example, weren't one of my favorite gaming genres, so I don't remember the titles of any of the sports games I played in the 70's and 80's on PC. Many of which were more sports simulations than actions games, but there were action games as well like the aforementioned Olympic Decathalon game on TRS-80.

BTW - Death Star on the Xerox Alto PC predates even StarShip 1 in the arcades. The problem is, no
one really remembers exactly when it was released, other than that it was likely pre 1975.

Again, that whole thing with not everything being on the internet, believe it or not.

Heck, there is even debate as to whether Maze War predates Spasim or not. And while they were an influence for FPS games, they aren't catagorized as FPS games. They fit in their own defined category of Maze Games with a sub category of First Person Maze Game.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Believe it or not, not everything exists on the internet even if it sometimes appears to.

Surely you don't need the internet to tell me the name of the game. I'm finding to difficult to cope with your memory on this issue, which is vague in one post but specifically accurate in another.

Heck, there is even debate as to whether Maze War predates Spasim or not.

Jim Bowery the author of Spasim claims it launched in March of 1974. Steve Colley the lead author of the original Maze Runner on NASA's Imlac PDS-1 doesn't remember. He thinks it's more likely 1973 but really can't be sure. Howard Palmer, co-author of Maze Runner , thinks it's more likely 1974 but really can't be sure either.

Since NASA hasn't declassified the documentation from that research (and can't be arsed to dig through it to stay the curiosity of six people), it'll remain a mystery for a little while longer.

 

[aaronspink]

Thats why i wrote "predicted", in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph. They are doing the whole ign, gamespot, etc etc honeymooning and big marketing push this time around to get those big console sales.

Its not an apocalypse but like I said from a publisher/dev standpoint, given Witcher 3 will sell on pc even without those 2013 e3 visuals, why spend millions more on dev budget to hit those visuals, instead of streamlining dev costs and create nearly uniform game visually across the platforms for all platforms.

PC piracy still probably is a big concern even with good pc sales on their past games. Economy has only gotting worse more people have less recreational spending money. Many people dont have a big moral issue with piracy. With tens of million still not transitioned off oldcomp/360/ps3, its probably a good strategy to insentivize as many people as possible over to console rather than PC.

If I was an exec at a struggling AAA publisher uncertain about the companies future and downsizing losing my job and was supporting my family, heck I'd unfortunately want to form an industry wide agreement-understanding with other publishers/devs not to offer that kind of huge of a visual difference e3 2013 vs release witcher3 on PC as that could move more players to the platform easier to pirate on.

PC game piracy is pretty much a complete non-issue resulting in basically minimal at worst loss in sales. OTOH, being able to keep more than 40% of a games selling price is a pretty big factor. You have to sell 2+ copies of a game on consoles to make the same amount as money as 1 sale on PC.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Surely you don't need the internet to tell me the name of the game. I'm finding to difficult to cope with your memory on this issue, which is vague in one post but specifically accurate in another.

I can't even remember the name of Dungeon Master by FTL (just had to look it up), despite it being one of my favorite RPGs from the 80's. I average having to look it up about 5-8 times a year as I describe it to other people. I can remember gameplay, experiences, even mechanics more than I can remember names. Heck, I can't even remember the name of the LOTR inspired RTS games which I played the ever living shite out of during LAN parties in the 2000's. But I certainly remember the gameplay, mechanics, experience, etc. in great detail.

Names I don't generally remember. Everything else I generally do. As such, I'm horrible at Trivial Pursuit. It's always funny when someone says to me, oh X from movie Y is in this new movie. I have no clue who they are talking about until they describe what the person looks like or if they have a distinctive acting style.

Regards,
SB