American medical system leading cause of death in the usa.

[zidane1strife]

I don't know if anyone's posted this before, but here goes:

"The vast majority of [prescription]drugs only work in 30 or 50% of the people."- Dr. Allen Roses worldwide president of genetics at GlaxoSmithKline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/prescription/

More direct:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/prescription/hazard/

In the 31 years that I've been monitoring the Food and Drug Administration, what has gone on in the last five and six years is unprecedented. There have been an unprecedented number and percentage of drugs taken off the market; in many cases, drugs with known problems before they came on the market.

The sad thing is these were preventable. They could have been avoided. In most, if not all of the cases, there were strong danger signals even before the drug came on the market that there was a problem. In all cases, once they came on the market, there was a very dangerous and reckless slowness to respond to the signals that came after marketing -- signals in the terms of deaths and serious injuries to people who took the drug once it was on the market. So I think the combination of problems in the pre-approval phase, combined with a very defective system for post-market safety surveillance have really been devastating.

"The average medicine only works and has the right effect in only about 60 percent of people. Many people have side effects."- Raymond Woosley, M.D Vice President for Health Sciences at the University of Arizona, he was a top candidate to become FDA commissioner in 2002.

Well, I've not finished reading everything over there, but those are some of the quotes in that article.

What think?

Edit 1:

The original articles, and thread title did not cause enough of a shock it seems, so I'll just post this... not sure about the site veracity, but here goes

1.Deaths caused by conventional medicine 783,936 per year
2.Deaths caused by heart disease 699,697 per year
3. Death attributable to cancer 553,251 per year

http://www.garynull.com/documents/iatrogenic/deathbymedicine/deathbymedicine1.htm

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I think this means it's absurd to have a government supplied perscription drug benefit. (Not that I didn't think it was absurd before...)

 

[Sazar]

concur joe.. there is just too much abuse... everyone trying to fill their own pockets...

there needs to be an overhaul of multiple systems and reduce peoples dependence on them... there is no reason people should be taking 50 different pills a day... my grandfather is almost 90 and he does'nt take any pills.. still walks several miles a week (for his age its pretty good) and is in general good health)

 

[pax]

Meds are the one thing that even the most left wing org in the country cant support. As it is now its completely private outside a hospital setting and Canadians uses over 10.1 RX each year on average. I used 3 rx in the last 5 years... its insane and out of control...

And any old CPS will detail the enormous list of side effects most meds have. Most meds are little more than toxic chemicals. I shudder to think how many kids take anti biotics for colds... They are some of the most toxic substances known to man that are legal to eat. Very hard on liver and kidneys...

 

[Razor04]

And any old CPS will detail the enormous list of side effects most meds have. Most meds are little more than toxic chemicals. I shudder to think how many kids take anti biotics for colds... They are some of the most toxic substances known to man that are legal to eat. Very hard on liver and kidneys...

True...but are they any worse than the toxins produced by the invading bacteria in the end? My belief when it comes to anti-biotics is that you shouldn't take them unless you really really need them. Most of the time it will just be a virus and then you aren't going to help anything by taking them. I also don't believe in all the anti-bacterial soaps and products that are around nowadays. Sure there are times when they are useful but most of the time you just end up doing more harm than good by constantly avoiding all sorts of little bugs instead of getting some exposure and building up a resistance.

 

[Willmeister]

All this 'antibacterial' stuff is just promoting bacterial resistance. After all, whatever these disinfectants don't kill (immune to it) reproduce and have free reign of whatever food source they would have had to compete with non-resistant bacteria. So, in the end, people might reduce the chance of infection, but when they do, it'll require heavier antibiotics to treat...

Of course, 'antibacterial' is good for a laugh sometimes. Anyone else remeber the SNL commercial for Hamburger Helper Antibacterial?

 

[John Reynolds]

I remember a doctor taking out a full page ad in USA Today blasting the pharmaceutical companies and prescription drugs sometime in 2002. I have no idea how accurate, but this full page argued that the government was beginning to come down on these companies in 2001 before 9/11. And, yeah, he made a few rather strong Reichstag fire comparisons and how the sudden war on terror pushed this issue into the shadows.

My wife as a RN has argued that the greatest danger of pharmaceutical companies is the influence they have on medical programs. In her opinion they've co-opted to an alarming extent the training medical students receive, turning them as doctors into little more than pill pushers. Some doctors so heavily medicate their patients that it's almost impossible to start correlating the side effects of the multiple side effects of all the medicines, and that these side effects often become worse than the initial illness. I've also heard her say it would be interesting to put cameras in a doctors' front office for a week and count the number of pharmaceutical reps that come in and out with free samples and other sundry gifts.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I dunno, I kind of like it. I get tons of mousepads, pens, coffee mugs and such every week with some drug names on them....and the drug reps are ALWAYS buying my wife lunch. (My wife is a pharmacist)

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Personally, I blame a lot of patients who "insist" that they come out of the doctors office with a perscription to "fix" whatever it is that ails them.

 

[John Reynolds]

Personally, I blame a lot of patients who "insist" that they come out of the doctors office with a perscription to "fix" whatever it is that ails them.

I somewhat agree, but it's not like too many doctors are trained to offer alternative advice either. The majority of medical schools here in the States offer one course in diet and nutrition and that's it. A friend of mine who teaches chemistry at a local university is a huge workout/health nut (who's offered me tons of wonderful advice) routinely mocks doctors' knowledge when it comes to nutrition, stating how pharmaceutical companies actively fight against any increases in diet/nutritional learning in medical schools. True? I don't know.

IMO, the biggest problem with pharmaceuticals is they all too often address the symptom and not the illness itself. Make the illness bearable through suppression of the symptom(s) and a company has itself a lifetime customer.

 

[zurich]

Sounds like the old "HIV/AIDS doesn't kill you, the (drug) cocktails do" argument.

You guys think antibiotics are poison? Shit, you should see what these drug cocktails do to people.

 

[indio]

Damn just compare

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/druguse.htm
pass the heroine please , it's safer .

 

[Sxotty]

To be quite honest I think youguys are overstating the problem, you make it sound like if you have a type 1 diabetic ( not some fat guy that is to lazy to excercise) you can just pat them on the back and say "hey pal you'll do allright" then suddenly everything will be better. Certain diseases do need constant medication (whether insulin or other) and that is all there is to it.

The more realistic cause for the problems you described are alluded to by Joe, but not completely

The truth is people are lazy they don't want to have to excerise or do anything to be healthy, doctors are lazy it is easier to write a prescription than actually deal with a problem (and the drug companies do their share of pushing meds), but as I said before some diseases DO need medication and will unless you just want to shoot the person in the head and get it over with.

 

[Dizzy]

I suffer from asthma, and the medication the doctor prescribed almost killed me. I was on a new asthma medication and within 3 months of being on it I was having over 11,000 skipped beat a day. The only thing that saved me was that I went to another doctor to start a diet and he informed me that my heart was not doing well and I needed to see a cardiologist. By the time I got to see a cardiologist I barely was able to function, after 2 years of fiddling with different medication and my heart getting no better. I came to the conclusion that the heart medications they gave me, was actually causing the problem.

I was so messed up that I was talking sedatives to help me deal with my stress and worry. Thank God that I was able to get a hold my self (emotionally) and was able to find doctors that were not happy with just giving me medication. Presently I take 2 medications for my asthma, the side effects being upset stomach and an occasional sore throat.

What I have learned from all this is that don’t take drugs unless they are absolutely necessary and don’t trust doctors do some research yourself on the medication you are taking and the side affects. My first doctor all he ever did was give me pills and I progressively got sicker. One time he prescribed a medication that causes palpitations even after reminding him that he had to be careful because medications can give me palpitations

 

[Legion]

The truth is people are lazy they don't want to have to excerise or do anything to be healthy, doctors are lazy it is easier to write a prescription than actually deal with a problem (and the drug companies do their share of pushing meds), but as I said before some diseases DO need medication and will unless you just want to shoot the person in the head and get it over with.

Perhaps a little off topic but this line of reasoning is partly why i am so critical of modern psychology (especially in the fields of evolutionary psychology) who'd much rather make an effort to establish a behavior as genetic or write you a prescription then actually dealing with the enviromental causes of the problem. I see this as horribly irresponsible. Simply masking the the problems with behaviorally motifying drugs is not an answer to them. What these doctors are enabling are patient's emotional addiction to antidepresents and supresents as ritilin.

 

[3dilettante]

What these doctors are enabling are patient's emotional addiction to antidepresents and supresents as ritilin.

It's not always an emotional addiction when it comes to antidepressants. There is the potential of serious physical withdrawal symptoms from certain SSRIs like zoloft; side effects serious enough to drive people to suicide. In other cases, people continue to take the drug simply to avoid the agony. Quite a nice racket.

 

[Legion]

What these doctors are enabling are patient's emotional addiction to antidepresents and supresents as ritilin.

It's not always an emotional addiction when it comes to antidepressants. There is the potential of serious physical withdrawal symptoms from certain SSRIs like zoloft; side effects serious enough to drive people to suicide. In other cases, people continue to take the drug simply to avoid the agony. Quite a nice racket.

Not always but i have seen my fair share of emotional addictions.

There is also the matter concerning the nature of the depression. A lot of depressed individuals do not comitt suicide do to lack of motivation. Some of these antidepresents can actually provided them with adequate motivation.

 

[Willmeister]

Perhaps a little off topic but this line of reasoning is partly why i am so critical of modern psychology (especially in the fields of evolutionary psychology) who'd much rather make an effort to establish a behavior as genetic or write you a prescription then actually dealing with the enviromental causes of the problem.

Welcome to the modern world. We're so addicted to convenience; point-and-click and drive-thru just show how addicted our society is to whole instant gratification thing. We want it, and we want it now! As quickly as possible, as cheap as possible, and most importantly, with the least amount of effort required to get it.

 

[Legion]

Welcome to the modern world.

Hey i've been here, i just don't tolerate it.

We're so addicted to convenience; point-and-click and drive-thru just show how addicted our society is to whole instant gratification thing.

We've been hedonistic for a while...

We want it, and we want it now! As quickly as possible, as cheap as possible, and most importantly, with the least amount of effort required to get it.

I don't have a problem with this part necessarily. What i have a problem with is completely devaluing the worth of human life when committing such atrocities as abortion (which is see as "murder for convience"). It is in this loss of value we lose touch with ourselves and each other.

Now we talk about liquifying and extruding tissues from aborted fetuses (what we call them instead of humans in order to mask their real identity in our minds) to fuel massive stem cell research we hope will prolong the rest of our lives...This is a behavior i see on par with cannibalism.

 

[Legion]

and people wonder why i don't want illegal drugs legalized...