AMD: Volcanic Islands R1100/1200 (8***/9*** series) Speculation/ Rumour Thread

[Nemo]

Existing R9 290X and 290 cards employ AMD’s reference cooler design. This is the weak link in the chain affecting all of the Hawaii-based products we’ve tested thus far (and we’ve been testing pretty much non-stop for three weeks now). Again, third-party designs with more effective coolers will be what change the story.

Rumor has it, though, that AMD is holding its partners at bay until GeForce GTX 780 Ti launches, allowing the company to reevaluate the ultra-high-end space and put a target on where it needs to be for another victory. We have Hawaii running at a constant, stable 1.158 GHz in our lab, and we know a card with two eight-pin power inputs could be a real beast. However, we also don’t anticipate AMD or its partners offering 780 Ti-killing performance at the same $550 price point.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-review-benchmark,3659-2.html

If its true I will wait for 295X

 

[lanek]

No it wouldn't because most benchmarks place the 780Ti faster than the 290x in uber mode and when in uber mode the card is running consistently at its maximum clock speed. A better cooler will make it quieter than it is with the reference cooler but there's no guarantee it'll be quieter than a 780Ti - especially a Ti with the equivalent cooler.

Its only going to be faster (on average) than the Ti with a significant overclock which would again push noise and power consumption up. And then its only comparable to similarly overclocked Ti's which once again would likely tip the performance advantage to the Ti.

- Even if the TI is less noisy of let say an IceQ HIS cooler, what could be the difference ? 1DB ? 0,5DB ? we will starting put a second line in the fps average review with DB in games ? counting the 0,7 -1% difference of cooler noise ?... ( its not an hasard if i use the IceQ comparaison, it is not really the more silent, but it have been tested on an 290x, result 63°C max under crysis ( could be less, i dont know if this custom build is really working well in term of contact with the chip ( different orientation and the 290x is bigger )..

Ofc, then again, against an overclocked 780TI ( EVGA FTW etc ), it will depend the clock ( the noise, even if 1DB more.. huum, its start to look more like a paranoia story, lets chase the 0,1db difference ), faster ok, but then i doubt they will sell it under 700$ so you end again with the price who enter in count, peoples will buy what they want for there buck.. and all depend what gain we are speaking.. could be 10%, could be less, could be more.

 

[Blazkowicz]

Using that decibel converter I've found here http://www.mogami.com/e/cad/db.html , 0.5dB is a 12% difference and 1 dB is a 26% difference.
That's probably not much to the ear, barely discernable but when you get to 5dB or more between two different cards or profiles that's getting quite huge.

 

[no-X]

No it wouldn't because most benchmarks place the 780Ti faster than the 290x in uber mode and when in uber mode the card is running consistently at its maximum clock speed.

It is, but only in some games. In some cases (not rarely) you have to increase fan speed above 55 % to achieve stable 1GHz clock-speed.

 

[FUDie]

Using that decibel converter I've found here http://www.mogami.com/e/cad/db.html , 0.5dB is a 12% difference and 1 dB is a 26% difference.
That's probably not much to the ear, barely discernable but when you get to 5dB or more between two different cards or profiles that's getting quite huge.

A 10dB increase means 10x as much sound pressure but only about twice as loud to your ear. A 5dB difference is noticeable but not hugely so. See here.

-FUDie

 

[Blazkowicz]

Thanks, that's a great page there.

 

[Kaotik]

A 10dB increase means 10x as much sound pressure but only about twice as loud to your ear. A 5dB difference is noticeable but not hugely so. See here.

-FUDie

No. Sound pressure doubles every 6 dB, not every dB. About 10 dB "louder" is what's usually perceived as "twice as loud", though.

 

[FUDie]

No. Sound pressure doubles every 6 dB, not every dB. About 10 dB "louder" is what's usually perceived as "twice as loud", though.

Read what I said again.

-FUDie

 

[Kaotik]

Read what I said again.

-FUDie

"A 10dB increase means 10x as much sound pressure"
I believe that reads "10dB increase means 10x as much sound pressure", as in 20dB would mean 10x sound pressure compared to 10dB, which is incorrect, as 6dB doubles the sound pressure, as in 16 dB has 2x the sound pressure compared to 10 dB?

 

[Blazkowicz]

For the kind of stuff we measure here, a doubling is +3dB not +6dB. And if we're saying that, then doubling three times, 8x ratio, is +9dB. By whatever mathematical coincidence, 10 dB for 10x is cromulent with 3dB for 2x. (actually +3dB is x1.995)

This page deals with +3dB vs +6dB, the latter happens when dealing with voltage, especially audio voltage
"Does combining two identical signals result in a 3dB or a 6dB increase? The answer is “yes”!"
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/3-6db/
So now I can sort of tell why 16bit digital sound is said to have 96dB dynamic range and not 48dB. Voltage dB are different, it's like sound dB (dB SPL) double twice as fast as voltage dB.

The ear is logarithmic too but flattens things more, it's nice to hear a doubling is +10dB (though that's assuredly an inaccurate, rough, subjective measurement)

 

[FUDie]

"A 10dB increase means 10x as much sound pressure"
I believe that reads "10dB increase means 10x as much sound pressure", as in 20dB would mean 10x sound pressure compared to 10dB, which is incorrect, as 6dB doubles the sound pressure, as in 16 dB has 2x the sound pressure compared to 10 dB?

You're wrong.

It's a logarithmic scale. 10dB = 10 deciBels = 1 Bel = 1 factor of 10. The difference from 10dB to 20dB is the same as 100 dB to 110 dB, i.e. 10x as much sound pressure in either case.

If you want to know what is twice as much sound pressure, simply solve 10^x = 2. In other words, x = log_10 2 = .3 (roughly) which is equivalent to 3 dB.

As I said before, to your ear, 10dB, a factor of 10 more sound pressure, is about twice as loud.

-FUDie

 

[Blazkowicz]

I think he knows that it's logarithmic. But in some cases or fields of work you may have to care about +6 or -6dB rather than +3 or -3dB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel#Voltage

Since the decibel is defined with respect to power, not amplitude, conversions of voltage ratios to decibels must square the amplitude, or use the factor of 20 instead of 10, as discussed above.

...

Probably the most common usage of "decibels" in reference to sound loudness is dB SPL, sound pressure level referenced to the nominal threshold of human hearing:[34] The measures of pressure, a field quantity, use the factor of 20, and the measures of power (e.g. dB SIL and dB SWL) use the factor of 10.

 

[DavidGraham]

I'm not sure how you can say the 290X is pushed to the extremes yet the 780Ti isn't. The 290X has a clearly inferior cooler which is making power draw appear worse than it is as well. Add another 1GB of VRAM and you might as well call it a wash.

The noise is all about the cooler also. In silicon terms they appear to be very close with perhaps even a very slight edge to Hawaii. Considering the area advantage they have you have to say AMD has completely closed the gap and then some.

Hexus tests use FC3 which is throttled by the uber 290x.

Don't get me wrong, I said in a previous post that both GPUs are so close to each other that clocks will be the only differentiator between them, I just think that 780Ti still has more room to increase clock speeds than 290X, without significantly having out of proportion power/heat/noise characteristics.780Ti managed to increase core count, also both memory and core clocks over the Titan with relative ease, all while using the same cooler.

In the end I guess time will tell, we won't have to wait for long too.

Hardly. Look at the original HardOCP 290X with the fan set to 100%. In Farcry 3 just the boost clock alone (without a "real" overclock) gets another 10-20% over the "uber" setting of 40% fan.

FC3 is an exception. it is throttled even at the uber mode, Skyrim too.

 

[jimbo75]

Tech Report also has the 780 Ti drawing >20W more with Skyrim (and being slower overall than the 290X Uber).

 

[DavidGraham]

Techreport's final charts are for price/performance not raw performance alone. Skyrim is also being throttled by Uber 290X.

 

[jimbo75]

Yes but you can see using the Y axis that the 290X has better performance, at least in frame times. The Ti wins in average fps though, which is somewhat odd.

If the 290X is throttling in some games then performance will also be down.

Anandtech's results can be thrown out as they compare vs the 290X quiet mode btw. Edit on seconds thoughts I'm unsure if this will be in future reviews or also counts for the conclusion in this one.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Yes but you can see using the Y axis that the 290X has better performance, at least in frame times. The Ti wins in average fps though, which is somewhat odd.

If the 290X is throttling in some games then performance will also be down.

Anandtech's results can be thrown out as they compare vs the 290X quiet mode btw. Edit on seconds thoughts I'm unsure if this will be in future reviews or also counts for the conclusion in this one.

Why should Anandtechs results be thrown out? Quiet mode is the default mode, it is AMDs choice. Are we trying to make unfair comparisons again?

 

[gamervivek]

Improving air outflow on the Radeon R9 290X, all hail Dremel

https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/393877070117220352/photo/1

I have two 290X in crossfire and both of 'em have this easy mod. *Massively* improves cooling performance, reduces noise, and keeps the cards at 1000 Mhz even over long play sessions.

http://techreport.com/discussion/25...-ti-graphics-card-reviewed?post=776154#776154

Yes but you can see using the Y axis that the 290X has better performance, at least in frame times. The Ti wins in average fps though, which is somewhat odd.

If the 290X is throttling in some games then performance will also be down.

yeah, the massive power differential in some reviews(70-100W) does not seem normal, perhaps something funky is going on with the voltage control.

 

[thatdude90210]

Heh, that's pretty hardcore. Maybe one can get a similar result by drawing the hot air from the stock vent with duct and fan.

 

[fellix]

Yea, the exhaust is probably too tidy, with the stacked pair of DIV ports, for all the heat to escape in time.

Custom coolers should really unlock more potential.