AMD: Southern Islands (7*** series) Speculation/ Rumour Thread
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UniversalTruth
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AMD Announces New Pricing Structure for 7000 Series Cards
Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition: $ 499
Radeon HD 7970: from $ 449 to $ 429;
Radeon HD 7950, from $ 399 to $ 349;
Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition: from $ 349 to $ 299
Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition: $ 499
Radeon HD 7970: from $ 449 to $ 429;
Radeon HD 7950, from $ 399 to $ 349;
Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition: from $ 349 to $ 299
7950 is the best deal in GPU's for a while now (when overclocked it can run with a 670 or 7970, for much less, also has 3GB of RAM/384 bit bus)
However in the case of these prices in most cases especially with rebates I think the prices are already there or lower. I've seen 7950 for $320 AR and 7870 for 289 AR, etc.
Perhaps these new prices will lead to the street prices going even lower, but I kind of doubt it.
Anyways for those saying this gen didn't gain us anything in pricing, you can now get a 7870 which will run with GTX 580 for ~1/2 the price 580 sold at, I'd say that is pretty good. Or a 7850 which may not be too far behind for as low as $210 AR.
UniversalTruth
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Correct. AMD is not in a very pleasant condition right now and if TSMC manufacturing capacity is a limiting factor, then they should at least try to flood the market with cheap 100-120$ Radeon 6870s.
And- set the price of all 7800 and 7900 correspondingly, so demand outstrips supply, don't let any of those get dust in the stores. I want to see people waiting for relatively cheap 7800s and 7900s because those are sold out.
Correct. AMD is not in a very pleasant condition right now and if TSMC manufacturing capacity is a limiting factor, then they should at least try to flood the market with cheap 100-120$ Radeon 6870s.
And- set the price of all 7800 and 7900 correspondingly, so demand outstrips supply, don't let any of those get dust in the stores. I want to see people waiting for relatively cheap 7800s and 7900s because those are sold out.
If people are so whacked they can't see the value in a card that is half the price of the 580 gtx while performing the same, a few extra bucks isn't going to change their mind either. If the 7870 was called the GTX 660 ti, it would cost $350 and Nvidia fanboys would be lauding it as the greatest deal ever seen.
The issue is that everything this generation is overpriced.
AMD's graphics division made ~$40 million in Q1, while Nvidia basically made a loss on Geforce. I'm not convinced that they are so overpriced, but we'll see in a few days when AMD posts their Q2 and when Nvidia posts theirs a few weeks later. I really don't think either will be awash in cash, which makes me wonder about the viability of consumer GPU's if they are supposed to be overpriced right now.
You're right that they are overpriced compared to last gen, but last gen they were both barely breaking even. This isn't a viable business and it may well be a choice of "overpriced" or "nothing at all".
UniversalTruth
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GTX 580 can be bought for 430$, so now, be so kind, tell us which card costs 215$ and is as fast (and also as reliable, because this is even more important and results in overall better reputation for nvidia
) as the 580. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133456
With such a way of thinking the worst for AMD is yet to come. It's not about value, which obviously is not there. It's about the customers ability and willingness to buy. Tell me, exactly what AMD does to convince customers that their products have value.
They have it but at much lower prices. I am not sure who even cares about these sheet numbers. Even the guys in AMD. It's not about the money, people said. It's about the attitude.
Profit can be the result of total quantity of units sold with a reasonable margin on top, not of highest possible margin on an individual product with much less total quantity.
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GTX 580 can be bought for 430$, so now, be so kind, tell us which card costs 215$ and is as fast (and also as reliable, because this is even more important and results in overall better reputation for nvidia
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133456
And how much were both at release? Obviously the 580 is going to tank in price as only the ultra-clueless are still buying them. The fact that you mention the 580 at $430 and don't say anything about how ridiculously overpriced it still is speaks volumes.
That's exactly my point. If being the same speed (not to mention how much less power draw) than the competitor's card, at a much lower price isn't enough, then why would dropping prices be enough? There is something wrong in the heads of these people - they won't buy AMD even when it's clearly a much better deal, but if this was the 660 Ti they'd be lapping it up at the same price. Maybe because the collective press would be falling over themselves to declare it the "midrange champion" or something similar?With such a way of thinking the worst for AMD is yet to come. It's not about value, which obviously is not there. It's about the customers ability and willingness to buy. Tell me, exactly what AMD does to convince customers that their products have value.
I had to question the Hexus author's review after he gave Pitcairn 3 stars out of 5. 12 months before the GTX 580 had been given 4 out of 5. It didn't matter that it was so much cheaper and had so much better power draw at the same performance level - all that mattered is that it was an AMD card and it was "overpriced", and why not wait on the 660? Why not wait on the 8780, I'm sure it'll blow the 660 Ti away at a cheaper price as well.
Not only that, remember when Cape Verde was "overpriced"? How "overpriced" does that look now in front of the laughable GT 640?
If AMD is to be successful in the graphics business they won't do it by being known as the cheap option when they are clearly the superior choice.
Whether it's ignorance or being slaves to advertising I don't know - I guess a combination of both. Either way AMD dropping prices isn't going to change anything regarding these people. They rather spend $100 more and lose out on $100 of free games, on a gtx 680 that is 10% faster (equal with overclocking) than the 7970.
You might call it a stronger brand, I call it plain stupidity.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
You are right and wrong at the same time.
There is a given psychological border- I will buy a 250$ card only if it offers reasonable performance. At current situation no card meets this requirement.
Look at GTX 670 and HD 7970 prices- it is one and the same and even NV's card is the cheaper, while TPU shows that those ones have one and the same performance. So, it is AMD that is the more expensive brand then. So, how do you want to see people buying it?
So, my requirement and I think many others' is- give me the 7970 for 300$ and I will go for it, otherwise- I will skip it. Until I see a very significant performance improvement over my current card in the same price tag.
There is a given psychological border- I will buy a 250$ card only if it offers reasonable performance. At current situation no card meets this requirement.
Look at GTX 670 and HD 7970 prices- it is one and the same and even NV's card is the cheaper, while TPU shows that those ones have one and the same performance. So, it is AMD that is the more expensive brand then. So, how do you want to see people buying it?
So, my requirement and I think many others' is- give me the 7970 for 300$ and I will go for it, otherwise- I will skip it. Until I see a very significant performance improvement over my current card in the same price tag.
The 7970 has a bit more going for it. It overclocks better and is miles ahead in compute for example. So the new prices put it at the same prices as the 670 as well...and it's still not enough? Yet people are falling over themselves to buy the 670 currently (or so we're led to believe).
So they are both around the same performance level and the 7970 ticks a couple of boxes the 670 doesn't...and now it's going to be the same price yet that's still not enough for you? You want it even cheaper? $300 are you having a laugh?
Do you think the 670 is good value?
So they are both around the same performance level and the 7970 ticks a couple of boxes the 670 doesn't...and now it's going to be the same price yet that's still not enough for you? You want it even cheaper? $300 are you having a laugh?
Do you think the 670 is good value?
UniversalTruth
Veteran
Of course, a big NO. Actually, there is only one option for me- an AMD card.
Call it whatever you want- fanboyism, or a strong principle, but I will never give money to nvidia.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
Anyone has an idea why @W1zzard is doing reviews with these 'ancient' drivers?
NVIDIA: 296.10
GTX 680: 301.24
GTX 670: 301.34
ATI: Catalyst 12.3
Sapphire HD 7950 Flex 3 GB on Jul 17th 2012, in Video Cards. Manufacturer: Sapphire
Edit: Radeon HD 7970 at 399.99$ after MIR
NVIDIA: 296.10
GTX 680: 301.24
GTX 670: 301.34
ATI: Catalyst 12.3
Sapphire HD 7950 Flex 3 GB on Jul 17th 2012, in Video Cards. Manufacturer: Sapphire
Edit: Radeon HD 7970 at 399.99$ after MIR
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Too lazy to link it but if you search you'll find, Visiontek reference 7970 for $369 plus 6 free games at Tiger Direct.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
lol I do wonder how much it would cost without these games, but they do it to sponsor game developers, so I do understand them.
However, Google Chrome doesn't let me to go there- tigerdirect.com
Error 310: net::ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS.
No idea .. Maybe just cause it dont own the old cards anymore and want test in same condition .
Dont worry i have even see a review yesterday where a site have test the Sapphire 7970 Toxic 6gb with the Catalyst 12.4 and only with the standard bios ( the lethal bios make run the card @1200mhz, the standard is a 7970GHZ with 1050mhz turbo at 1100mhz ) ... Or the 12.4 dont have the algorythm for the Turbo boost on GHZ cards.. so basically he have test a 1100mhz card at 1050mhz and without the last driver enhancement and performance fix in games . The results are even more strange as in all test their standard 680 is over this 7970 who should run at 1100mhz...
I will not link to the site as i believe if it will fix it then.. and it will even be worst to make him some traffic..
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It was said several times already, that turbo needs Cat 12.7+ to work.
UniversalTruth
Veteran
Correct but AMD cards are not put in equal position against nvidia's counterparts. See how GTX670/680 are tested with newer drivers, while all AMD cards are tested with Catalyst 12.3.
Hé im right with you... many reviewers dont have old cards again when they test their oppponents, and just dont are able to do the test bench again .... ( note, even if Nvidia have promise a lot of gain on performance with their drivers each release, Anandech and other site have shown the gain was really minimal .. ( test of the 7970Ghz, many site was test the drivers of Nvidia and amd for do a real comparaison ) ... at contrrario, in some games, the AMD catalyst divers between the 12.4 and 12.7 have really increase the performance in some games ( Skyrim and Dirt3 is a good example ) (maybe some Nvidia fans will find i make the work of AMD, but i can assure you this is not the case, not by conclusion, thoes one have been made by 3-4 sites differents )
at same time in this case it is absolultely funny when we look the games used, and we see many games have got a nice increase in fps, by a fix, a good optimisation and by using old drivers we just dont see this fix, this optimisation in action . Using a driver who is dated from April ( in reality this beta driver, WHQL then is surely dated of march ), in July is a strange, AND a really bad approach ..
The testers dont have all the cards they tests with them... hence why you see the GTX680 tested with a driver beta, and the >GTX670 tested with another .... hence why review are to be taken with a lot of care on what they show you . Last years was allready funny on some reviewers sites, but yet even if this years it is really quiet and slow, we see some funny thing in review ( and i dont say that for AMD cards only, some reviewers have some funny way to test Nvidia cards )
( i was coming back from a party with my wife, and i hope it look to something you can read in english )
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