AMD RyZen CPU Architecture for 2017

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by fellix, Oct 20, 2014.

Tags:
  1. xEx

    xEx
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    398
    What is too good to be true is that if they result translate into real world software you are getting same performance for LESS than HALF the price, almost a THIRD....this is so good.
     
    #1001 xEx, Feb 21, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  2. hoom

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2,948
    Likes Received:
    497
    I wouldn't underestimate the likelihood that more than a few reviews will be structured to make Ryzen look as bad as possible.
     
  3. shiznit

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    64
    Location:
    Oblast of Columbia
    Another thing reviews constantly fail to do is disable SMT for gaming benchmarks, which often helps the 4 core CPUs but hurts the 6 and 8 core CPUs. check Youtube if you need proof. I saw substantial gains with my 5820k when I disabled SMT in several games (and it allows for easier overclocking).
     
    #1003 shiznit, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  4. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    16,157
    Likes Received:
    5,094
    They could sort of avoid that by going for segmented marketing names for different tiers similar to Intel and AMD CPUs of the past.

    For example, Opteron/Athlon 64/Sempron/Turion. Do something similar for Zen core CPUs.
    • 8/6 core server chips. - Positioned against Xeon
    • 8/6 core enthusiast/performance mainstream chips - Positioned against i7/i5/i3
    • 4 core mainstream/budget chips - Positioned against Pentium/Celeron
    And have a different brand name for each. I imagine they should compare favorably if positioned that way. Hell, even if the 4 core CPUs were positioned against the i3 CPUs, it'd be favorable for them.

    Again, as you mentioned, if the leaked benchmarks are representative of shipping silicon.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  5. sebbbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    5,288
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    None of these Pentium vs i3 comparisons even mention that Pentium doesn't support AVX and AVX2 instruction sets. Doesn't matter much right now in games, but I am sure there will be AAA games in future that require AVX. Skylake/Kaby Pentium is the only recent CPU model that doesn't support AVX. Every other PC processor since 2011 supports AVX (Sandy Bridge+, Bulldozer+). Except the Intel ATOM netbook/tablet CPUs (but these do not meet any AAA game minimum requirements). The AMD Jaguar netbook/tablet CPU also supports AVX, and it is used by Sony and Microsoft consoles.

    I personally dislike the decision to drop AVX support from Pentium, as it will certainly generate lots of consumer complaints towards game developers in the future. I wouldn't recommend these CPUs to gamers.
     
    Laurent06, BRiT and Lightman like this.
  6. tongue_of_colicab

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,447
    Likes Received:
    655
    Location:
    Japan
    OTOH how many people buy a 60 dollar CPU if they plan on using their PC for anything other than some basic Office stuff and light browsing?
     
  7. hoom

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2,948
    Likes Received:
    497
    Most games use SSE?
    From a quick google it seems Cinebench 15 is SSE2 only which may be why Zen is doing well vs Intel, would be interesting to see performance with older versions/properly optimised software (are there actually any compilers that do an even handed job while enabling latest tech?)
     
  8. xEx

    xEx
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    398
    What are the benefits of avx in games? How would it helps developers?

    Enviado desde mi HTC One mediante Tapatalk
     
  9. Lightman

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,804
    Likes Received:
    475
    Location:
    Torquay, UK
    So it looks like AMD Zen core delivers >52% better IPC compare to XV core! Pretty impressive if that slide reproduction floating around is correct!

    Sorry no link as typing on phone in the middle of work day.
     
  10. nutball

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    483
    Location:
    en.gb.uk
    Performance improvement of a complex quasi-deterministic device reduced to a single number.

    Impressive.
     
    dogen likes this.
  11. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    O Canada!
  12. xEx

    xEx
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    398


    impressive the 1700 is same price as 7700k, 46% higher performance is CB.
     
  13. sebbbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    5,288
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions

    SSE vectors are only 4-wide. AVX adds 8-wide vectors and some new instructions (broadcast, permute, masked move). Also AVX is non-destructive (3 operands), meaning that AVX doesn't need to write the result over one of the inputs. This reduces register pressure and removes need to generate extra mov instructions. On Intel CPUs, you can reach up to 2x higher FLOPS with AVX compared to SSE. Without AVX you can only reach 1/2 peak FLOPS of modern Intel CPUs. AMD splits AVX instructions to two 4-wide instructions. Thus AVX is a smaller gain for AMD. Reduced instruction cache pressure (1/2 instructions) and the other smaller gains mentioned above still hold.

    The problem is that if you try to run AVX code on a CPU that doesn't support AVX, it the program will crash (illegal opcode). This is same problem as running SSE4 code on a CPU that only supports SSE3. Game developer could code support for both SSE4 and AVX, but that requires extra time and maintenance (doubled code). Thus most games nowadays use either SSE3 or SSE4 on PC. AVX code is usually only found in console specific parts of the engine (as consoles are guaranteed to support AVX).

    Game developers would obviously want to write all their vector code as AVX, as AVX is better than SSE. The problem however is PCs that have older CPUs than Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer. Many casual gamers are still using 6-core AMD Phenoms, Intel Nehalem (first i5/i7 gen) and Intel Core 2 Quads. We still need to wait for a year or two to drop support for non-AVX CPUs. Unfortunately the new Pentiums with disabled AVX support complicate this situation. I am just saying that there's no guarantee that all future games run on these particular Pentium CPU models.
     
    #1013 sebbbi, Feb 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
    Lightman, Heinrich4 and xEx like this.
  14. fehu

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    Somewhere over the ocean
    Can't this be resolved in the compiler?
     
  15. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,038
    Likes Received:
    3,109
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  16. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,999
    Likes Received:
    4,571
  17. xEx

    xEx
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    398
    still no listing on amazon or newegg.
     
  18. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,038
    Likes Received:
    3,109
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  19. xEx

    xEx
    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    398
    Btw I know a CPU is made by an army of very important and smart guys but damn, keller is such a god, more than 12% improvement over an already double and "optimism" goal is just incredible. If I were Lisa I would offert a blank check for him to come back.
     
  20. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,999
    Likes Received:
    4,571
    Here's something I got from Gigabyte's new motherboards that will probably be very relevant when Raven Ridge comes out:

    - They all say the iGPU can access a maximum of 2GB of shared memory
    - They all have HDMI 1.4 ports and/or DVI ports.

    No HDMI 2.0 or Displayport 1.3.
    No Freesync and no HDCP 2.2? This is very bad.
    I recon if USB-C 3.1 is natively supported one could find an adapter for alternate mode and have all that (assuming there's a HDCP 2.2 key somewhere in the process?), but not having it by default is a really bad decision.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...