AMD RDNA4 potential product value

[GhostofWar]

These rumors are like Nigerian email scams. They literally say “Nvidia production line” six times in two paragraphs. Last time I checked Nvidia doesn’t have any factories.

Someone asked why ada price and availability has gone to hell, you can choose not to believe production has stopped. So what do you think the cause of low supply is?

 

[Potato Head]

Someone asked why ada price and availability has gone to hell, you can choose not to believe production has stopped. So what do you think the cause of low supply is?

My first assumption would be Christmas. But I have as much hard data to back up that assumption as the guy talking about “Nvidia production lines”, so you certainly shouldn’t take my word for it.

 

[trinibwoy]

The fact that you were able to restate my point but with prices instead of naming means you understand exactly what I’m talking about: you used to get a lot more uplift for less money compared to now.

Yes perf/$ has gotten worse recently which is the opposite of what we should expect. Your original question though is whether we can imagine a future 70 class card besting the prior flagship. Those two things are unrelated. We can have terrible perf/$ while having a 70 card that beats the last 90 card because the positioning of the 70 card in any generation is arbitrary.

AMD naming scheme has been schizophrenic at best (see the 9070XT lmao) so yeah I would never go by what they do, every generation the segmentation is changed. However this wasn’t the case on the NV side for quite a while, with the only big change being the rebrand of the titan series to the 90 series.

Nvidia is just as bad.

The 4090 is 90% faster than the 4070 but 3090 is only 47% faster than the 3070. You can't identify trends based on names alone.

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes perf/$ has gotten worse recently which is the opposite of what we should expect. Your original question though is whether we can imagine a future 70 class card besting the prior flagship. Those two things are unrelated. We can have terrible perf/$ while having a 70 card that beats the last 90 card because the positioning of the 70 card in any generation is arbitrary.

In general, 70 tier cards have occupied a specific price category and have performance expectations with regard to the previous generation (ie, we used to be able to expect a 70 tier card could beat the prior flagship, like you said). With the 40 series (and onwards, it seems) this is no longer the case, as 70 tier cards are now significantly more expensive than they previously were and are less powerful (in reference to the previous gen, of course).

Nvidia is just as bad.

The 4090 is 90% faster than the 4070 but 3090 is only 47% faster than the 3070. You can't identify trends based on names alone.

Well my point is that the 40 series deviated from 'how things used to be', so yeah, the fact that the 4090 was so much more powerful than basically everything else in the stack is kinda my point.

That said, Nvidia is not just as bad here lol. AMD sticks with a naming scheme for like three generations at most then abandons it for some reason or another (HD 7000 -> 2X0 -> 3X0 -> 4X0 -> 5X0 (refresh) -> 5X00 (??) -> 6X00 -> 7X00 -> 90X0 (???)). Nvidia has kept the same scheme for over a decade at this point.

 

[Kaotik]

(HD 7000 -> 2X0 -> 3X0 -> 4X0 -> 5X0 (refresh) -> 5X00 (??) -> 6X00 -> 7X00 -> 90X0 (???)).

They've already had 8x00 and 9x00 back in the early days and want to avoid duplicate numbers

 

[IQandHDR]

Yes perf/$ has gotten worse recently which is the opposite of what we should expect. Your original question though is whether we can imagine a future 70 class card besting the prior flagship. Those two things are unrelated. We can have terrible perf/$ while having a 70 card that beats the last 90 card because the positioning of the 70 card in any generation is arbitrary.



Nvidia is just as bad.

The 4090 is 90% faster than the 4070 but 3090 is only 47% faster than the 3070. You can't identify trends based on names alone.

The GTX 680 also throws a wrench in his naming scheme assumptions.

 

[Cappuccino]

They've already had 8x00 and 9x00 back in the early days and want to avoid duplicate numbers

Considering how often AMD duplicates numbers between Ryzen and Radeon this seems suspect. Plus it’s like I don’t think anyone is confusing these products with 15 year old cards.

The GTX 680 also throws a wrench in his naming scheme assumptions.

If you have to go back to the 680 to find outliers then this kinda proves my point lol. People generally know what a 70 class card is because Nvidia usually has it fit into a specific price and performance category.

 

[Wesker]

Considering how often AMD duplicates numbers between Ryzen and Radeon this seems suspect. Plus it’s like I don’t think anyone is confusing these products with 15 year old cards.



If you have to go back to the 680 to find outliers then this kinda proves my point lol. People generally know what a 70 class card is because Nvidia usually has it fit into a specific price and performance category.

Agreed -- at this point it just seems like those arguing against this point are doing it purely for semantics, pedantry, and just for the sake of arguing. It's getting boring.

Your points are essentially capturing what Gamer's Nexus covered a few years ago:

and they followed up with a focus on Nvidia in this:

But yes: Can we get back to discussing the upcoming "RX 9070"?

 

[trinibwoy]

In general, 70 tier cards have occupied a specific price category and have performance expectations with regard to the previous generation (ie, we used to be able to expect a 70 tier card could beat the prior flagship, like you said). With the 40 series (and onwards, it seems) this is no longer the case, as 70 tier cards are now significantly more expensive than they previously were and are less powerful (in reference to the previous gen, of course).

The 670, 770, 970 and 2070 didn’t beat the prior flagship at launch. The 3070 matches the 2080 Ti. Is this expectation based just on Pascal?

I’m not disagreeing with your general point that perf/$ has regressed but your assertions about 70 series performance expectations seem way off.

 

[homerdog]

The 670, 770, 970 and 2070 didn’t beat the prior flagship at launch. The 3070 matches the 2080 Ti. Is this expectation based just on Pascal?

I’m not disagreeing with your general point that perf/$ has regressed but your assertions about 70 series performance expectations seem way off.

I've no stake in this argument but the 670 beat the 580, the 770 slightly beat the 680 (ignore the 690 since it's whack), and the 970 beat the 780. Although it is hard to tell if this was always the case in launch titles with launch drivers. Ultimately all these X70 class cards were superior to the previous X80 cards.

 

[trinibwoy]

I've no stake in this argument but the 670 beat the 580, the 770 slightly beat the 680 (ignore the 690 since it's whack), and the 970 beat the 780. Although it is hard to tell if this was always the case in launch titles with launch drivers. Ultimately all these X70 class cards were superior to the previous X80 cards.

The 580 and 780 were not the flagships of their generations. The complaint was that the 5070 won’t beat the 4090.

 

[homerdog]

The 580 and 780 were not the flagships of their generations. The complaint was that the 5070 won’t beat the 4090.

Close enough not counting the SLI abominations. Certainly the 970 was closer to the 780Ti or Titan than the 5070 will be to the 4090