Still, it's quite simple: Customers don't care for this. They care for the value that they get for their money. It's not in their nature to adopt corporate mindset so easily.
AMD Radeon RDNA2 Navi (RX 6500, 6600, 6700, 6800, 6900 XT)
Bondrewd
Veteran
2SM is a nothingburger cut.
Yeah they do.
Wait for xxxTi chopped part has been the client mantra since Kepler refresh.
Everyone knows that chopped parts are better value; the bloodcurling roars you hear now are just kids going full frenzy over being unable to get any GPUs whatsoever.
What's fun about this MSRP scrum is the fact that I was shown the in-bulk price list from one of the direct suppliers of GPUs in China, they were willing to sell 6700xts of various AIB provenance for a measly sum of $1300 per card if you buy a crate of 50 pts or more. So this discussion is very pointless until the craze is over (if ever /sadface)
@Bondrewd Since AMD said that it won't do anything about mining, is AMD going to remove in-driver clock limits for Navi2x cards?
@Bondrewd Since AMD said that it won't do anything about mining, is AMD going to remove in-driver clock limits for Navi2x cards?
This generation both vendors are doing some not really chivalrous, for a lack of better word, shenanigans. Both released "founders edition" versions that were limited in quantity just to set the MSRP low and that made the AIBs look bad because their SKUs were much more pricier (especially for 6800xt), real MSRPs would be actually higher than $500, $580, $480 etc if mining did not exist (sadly it does). And while it's good to sell polaris-sized chip for 4xx bucks from a business standpoint, many people won't be ready to fork almost half a grand for a middle range GPU
Bondrewd
Veteran
No idea.
The grander issue at hands is xtor cost scaling being dead.
Moore's finally outlived his law.
Prepare for $2.5k/$3k flagship GPUs.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
It seems to me that AMD isn't positioning the $480 MSRP of the 6700XT against the MSRPs of the 3060/3070 series. Nor does the $480 on the 6700XT makes sense over the $550 of the 6800.
I think they were positioning the 6700XT against the actual street and e-tailer prices of the competition, which currently puts the 3060 at the same $480 (or I guess it did before nvidia unlocked its mining potential.. it's probably way over that for miners at this point).
With the 3060 Ti realistically going for $500-600 and the 3070 for $700-800, the 6700XT is actually a good value for the price... if AMD actually manages to sell a significant number of those cards for that price, on their website.
How do you claim "DLSS needing developer intervention is not entirely true" and then proceed to quote a text that says the DLSS tool on UE4 is convenient for developer intervention?
I'm talking about people here, when I say customers. I understand you're come from further up the production chain - customers are not companies, customers are people in my book. And yes, there are a few in hardcore tech forae, that won't get a cut die if it'd save the life of their grannie. But the vast majority go into a (virtual/online) store, look what fits their budget and compare how much fps they get.
Bondrewd
Veteran
Yeah.
Those ones.
The ones conditioned by nVidia over years to wait(™) for value Ti chops.
They know well enough what they're buying.
D
Deleted member 2197
Guest
Don't all graphical effects (TAA, motion blur, etc) require developer intervention? If that is where you're going then it seems incorporating DLSS requires literally none if it takes less than half a day.
Last edited by a moderator:
They don't care if the chip is a cut down variant or the full die, they want x performance for y money. Don't know what too unsimple to see that point.
Bondrewd
Veteran
Yeah they do, those are DIY builders for gods sake.
Both vendors spent years conditioning them into buying better value chopped parts to the point most people expected new chops for Turing on day1 due to shit value.
Why do you think 2080ti price caused so much butthurt?
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I have seen more than once people on the Internet saying they'll wait for the lower-tier Ti/Super or non-XT versions instead of the full fledged GPU because they expect them to have better value.
We did see that with e.g. 2060S vs 2070, or Vega 56 vs Vega 64 and others, so it's natural that these expectations have become a trend of sorts.
I have absolutely no idea whether these people represent a substantial proportion of the dGPU consumer crowd, though.
We did see that with e.g. 2060S vs 2070, or Vega 56 vs Vega 64 and others, so it's natural that these expectations have become a trend of sorts.
I have absolutely no idea whether these people represent a substantial proportion of the dGPU consumer crowd, though.
Bondrewd
Veteran
They do.
Both dGP vendors spent years of conditioning for that.
Some segment buys whatever is the most expensive part that fits their budget but most PC builders still pick value any day of the week.
People waiting for cheaper parts? Yes. People caring about what percent of the die is enabled? No.
They care for price vs performance/features. They don't care at all about wafer costs/size/bins etc.
arandomguy
Veteran
I posted this with regards to the RTX 3060 MSRP as well in that 2021 GPU MSRPs can't exactly be compared to 2020 and earlier MSRPs even though they were in the same product generation. The issue isn't due to the current demand/supply situation either but that the global trade and cost situation has changed making the MSRPs not comparable. All the late 2020 release's of this generation would have higher MSRPs as well if released in 2021 due to things such as tariffs and the inflation spike caused by fiscal policy in response to the pandemic.
The likely reality is even sans mining we'd still be seeing higher real prices across the board due to the cost changes. Just obviously not anywhere to the same extent we are seeing now (especially with resell value) and likely better availability (judging by Zen 3).
Last edited:
Frenetic Pony
Veteran
Hey, i have a great shady business idea: Buy some XBoxes, hack and install Win10, resell as gaming PC. You know, like it did happen with PC -> Macintosh clone 20 years ago.
I would order! No way i'm gonna get some next gen GPU otherwise this year, it seems :/
I can hear the stampeding cryptominers from here
If that pans out to be the case then yeah, makes sense. I'd certainly purchase this over an equivalently priced 3060. Seems unlikely though.
Yeah, like AIBs adding the US import taxes straight to their prices even though majority of cards will never touch the US soil and thus they're not actually paying those tariffes themselves
(no, I don't have any facts to back that up, but unless other electronics manufacturers didn't just decide to take huge hit themselves, there's no other explanation for video cards price jump, not to the extent it happened)
