AMD: R7xx Speculation

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Unknown Soldier, May 18, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mczak

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,015
    Likes Received:
    112
    Right, though flops/watt isn't really a very good metric for the main purpose of these chips (which are, after all, mostly still intended for 3d graphic cards).
     
  2. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    8,475
    Likes Received:
    325
    Location:
    Treading Water
    Well flops and watts probably mean nothing to 95% of people who are going to buy these things. So perhaps they are thinking of building a box for pixar or something. :p

    There are some oddities with the power consumption part of the review (GX2 numbers seem off from expected) we've been looking at though so I'd like to see some corroboration before jumping to any conclusions.
     
  3. compres

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Germany
    I think we should wait for official reviews with release drivers before assuming anything with regards to idle power consumption.

    And now that RV770 has been dealt with, what can we really spect from R700? Is nVidia in even more trouble than we though? Interesting indeed.

    I would pick a 4870 if i have some free time this summer (which i don't sadly).
     
  4. revan

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    look in the sunrise ..will find me
    thanks., mczak...actually I tried to understand what goes wrong in R600 ( hope this evil never come back in future (ati)/(and why not nvidia) chips)... what you said, it is a start...hope more investigation will come in the next days....
     
  5. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,583
    Likes Received:
    703
    Location:
    Guess...
    Why so big? I thought GT200 only had about 45% more transistors than the 4800?
     
  6. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    8,475
    Likes Received:
    325
    Location:
    Treading Water
    And doesn't G92b have 200 million less than rv770? Perhaps its just a difference in counting methods, or perhaps its ATi showing their experience at 55nm.
     
  7. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,489
    Likes Received:
    400
    Location:
    Varna, Bulgaria
    1 - It's still on 65nm node.
    2 - There is more "fillrate" hardware (hard to pack in dense structures), like ROPs and TMUs, than any GPU up to date.
    3 - Beefy memory interface -- the primal enemy of any effective die shrink.
     
  8. Mintmaster

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    3,897
    Likes Received:
    87
    There will always be differences between what ATI and NVidia do when determining transistor count. Usually, density of one company's chips at a particular process node stays the same, though, because they're generally pretty consistent.

    G92 has similar transistors/mm2 to GT200, and the same is true for RV670/RV770. Looking at G92b for scaling of GT200b makes more sense than looking at RV770.
     
  9. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    16,137
    Likes Received:
    5,074
    They don't seem to be quite so densely packed in comparison to Rv770. If someone had mentioned a couple months ago that Rv770 would be approaching 1 billion transistors and still be 271mm^2 or smaller (I think consensus is that it's much smaller than 271mm^2), most people would have laughed and dismissed it as a pipe dream.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  10. Wirmish

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    VoltMod: HD 4850 OC @ 800 MHz core / 1100 MHz memory -> screenshot
     
  11. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    8,475
    Likes Received:
    325
    Location:
    Treading Water
    Any idea what cooling was used? It's clearly not Ln2, but I'm wondering if they went to a beefier air cooler or water or something. Temps certainly don't seem bad at that speed.
     
  12. ChronoReverse

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    1
    What did they use to overclock past 700MHz?
     
  13. mczak

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,015
    Likes Received:
    112
    What was the stock and what the modded voltage?
     
  14. mhouston

    mhouston A little of this and that
    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Cupertino
    That's actually from toTOW in the Folding@Home forums. I'll see if I can get him over here to explain how he did this. It's on air. ;-) This totally voids the warranty. :twisted:
     
  15. Wirmish

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    #4695 Wirmish, Jun 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2008
  16. MfA

    MfA
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    6,805
    Likes Received:
    473
    It's slightly funny ... but I don't think that shop of that cartoon falls under fair use ...
     
  17. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    10,430
    Likes Received:
    433
    Location:
    New York
    That's interesting. A lot of those changes make the general setup a lot more similiar to G8x. Makes for easier comparisons I guess.

    I don't think FP16 filtering is half speed in RV770 though. Measured numbers seem to indicate that it's pushing more texels than G92 and it gets up pretty close to GT200 too.
     
  18. jimmyjames123

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    3
    While I agree that GTX 280 is way overpriced, let's not get carried away and claim that GTX 260 is DOA. I'm sure when all is said and done that there will end up being several games where the GTX 260 has higher playable settings than the 4870 512MB, not to mention possibly lower idle power and also PhysX/CUDA support. That's not to take anything away from the HD 4870, which I'm sure is a great card and great value. But to simply look at max/average framerate like the chinese review really doesn't tell us the full story anyway. Also note that any review that compares Geforce GT200 vs Radeon 48xx with 8x MSAA enabled will almost always show advantages for the Radeon. As mentioned before, it doesn't make sense to run the Geforce cards with 8x MSAA, as performance is much much better with 16x CSAA, with minimal tradeoff in image quality.
     
    #4698 jimmyjames123, Jun 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2008
  19. A.L.M.

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Looking for a place to call home
    I think so.
    Look at the consumption test made by this very reliable italian site.

    [​IMG]


    How can in the world the HD4870 consume more than a HD3870X2... This diagram shows clearly that is the idle consuption the problem, not the full. But the idle power draw can be fixed with a simple driver issue. :wink:
    There's something very fishy in that test...
     
  20. jimmyjames123

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    3
    This cycle will never end. Considering that 9800 GTX+ is said to have very good headroom for overclocking, maybe vendors will come out with 9800 GTX+ OC versions too. That will certainly be a very good value compared to GT200.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...