AMD: R7xx Speculation

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Believe or not World of WarCraft was the poster child for me when investigating performance and IQ with adaptive and TA features from ATI and nVidia.

The Alpha test art work is so diverse with some areas with so many alphas, well, it's daunting.

FarCry was another title with a lot of alphas to investigate specific scenes but the alphas were very similar and a bit tougher to gadge quality aspects.

Serious Sam 2 in certain areas was a nice Alpha-test, test candidate.

Actually there are quite a few titles.........always seem to investigate the real heavier scenes.........cupcake examples are kinda worthless.

Never could find real viable data on Alphas -- an occasional bench and a quickie investigation on quality and that was about it -- too cookie cutter most reviews are to me.
 
http://cid-1b1908eb94064033.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public

TSAA results included. Taken at 4xAA/8xAF, 1680x1050



The reason I think something's wrong is because between the various modes, I can't see any difference nor are there any FPS differences. Can anyone tell what mode is being used? Something is definitely being done, but between TSSAA and TMSAA there doesn't seem to be any change.



I don't own any of those games. Is there a demo with such scenes available?
 
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ChronoReverse said:
http://cid-1b1908eb94064033.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public

TSAA results included. Taken at 4xAA/4xAF, 1680x1050

The reason I think something's wrong is because between the various modes, I can't see any difference nor are there any FPS differences. Can anyone tell what mode is being used? Something is definitely being done, but between TSSAA and TMSAA there doesn't seem to be any change.
Click to expand...
I don't have CCC installed so I can't verify what settings it's using. I can see that adaptive AA is working, though, as seen in the tree in the HL2:Ep2 shots.
 
You can see some affect on the trees in WiC as well. Though I can't tell (much of a / any) difference between the TMSAA 2 / TMSAA P / TMSAA Q shots.
 
That's what I meant.

Obviously the Adaptive AA is working but I can't tell any difference between the three modes. There's no performance difference between them either.

Notice that the penalty for turning on Adaptive AA is very low as well.
 
Dave Baumann said:
Can you give some examples?
Click to expand...
It's quite apparatent in NfS Carbon, Quick Race, Francis Tunnel with aniso forced via driver or in HL2 Episode 2 in the beginning (Into the White Forest?), especially with installed Cinematic Mod 8 which addes very lovely and highly detailed textures to the game. But also in the railways in "route canal" as i believe it's called.

For NfS Carbon it's this spot/track:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/&menu=browser&image_id=740631&article_id=621293&page=3&show=original
(an older image without HD4850 still)

But then, Nvidia is - apart from the mentioned problems with track-markings (not sure which kind of texture-function to attribute that to) in most racing games - not perfect either:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,6...ltering_quality_despite_of_HQ_driver_setting/


trinibwoy said:
Casting Nvidia's support for hardware acceleration of the PhysX API as a "cheat" seems somewhat off center to me. If FM wanted a CPU physics test they should've designed one. But what do I know.....
Click to expand...
I agree (while also agreeing on the fact, that comparing anyhting else than feature-test results from Futuremarks' products make less sense with every iteration).

But then, if their goal was to measure gaming performance, they (FM) direly need to integrate multi-core support into their game tests as well as physics (note - not with an "x") with multiple APIs (PhysX & Havok & ODE) because all the games i know and play do not have separate levels putting strain only on either GPU, CPU or "P"PU.


OpenGL guy said:
HL2 should be a good test of adaptive AA. Look for chain-link fences, I recall those as being much-improved.
Click to expand...

The 'Problem' (actually, it's not a problem, but a feature), is that HL2 EP2 (blablabla) in my tests with Cinematic Mod 8 actually did some transparency-AA on the fences all by itself as soon as you select FSAA in-Game. But it seems, trees an stuff further back in the distance does not profit from this. So on those objects you still see improvements from driver-applied transparency AA - but you also see, that the current (well, Cat 8.5 was current, when I did this) drivers do not make a difference in HL2 whichever adaptive mode you select.
 
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ZerazaX said:
Looks like the Chinese have the 4870 reviews up. Impressive:

http://translate.google.com/transla...167d9273.html&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en
Click to expand...

Gebus. If those numbers are anything close to reality, the 4870 is generally faster than the GTX 260 for less.

Probably why there's rumors of ATI increasing the price to 349 USD. Crossing my fingers that's not true.

Either way, looks like it's going to be a long summer for Nvidia.

Although, oddly enough, right now I have to give Nvidia more credit for a lower idle power than ATI. I'm hoping it's a driver bug that isn't reducing the core frequency and memory frequency as low as it should be. Notice that Rv670 drops to 300 mhz on the core when idle versus Rv770 only dropping to 500 mhz on the core when idle.

Still. Pretty damn impressive. In most cases 4870 is roughly twice as fast as 3870.

Regards,
SB
 
ZerazaX said:
Looks like the Chinese have the 4870 reviews up. Impressive:

http://translate.google.com/transla...167d9273.html&hl=zh-CN&ie=UTF8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en
Click to expand...

Performance is great, but power consumption is troubling.

It uses 33 Watts more in Idle compared to the 4850, which is strange because one would assume that it decreases frequencies and voltages to the same level and it's the exact same chip.

It uses 58 Watts more under load compared to the 4850, which is at the same level as a GTX280.

I doubt that a straight 4870X2 card would be possible with these power characteristics. They will probably need to decrease frequencies.
 
I wouldn't draw any conclusion based on one measurement. Different games/benchmarks and settings (ALU:TEX, different limitations...) leads in results, which can differ in tens of W.
 
CarstenS said:
It's quite apparatent in NfS Carbon, Quick Race, Francis Tunnel with aniso forced via driver or in HL2 Episode 2 in the beginning (Into the White Forest?), especially with installed Cinematic Mod 8 which addes very lovely and highly detailed textures to the game. But also in the railways in "route canal" as i believe it's called.
Click to expand...
NFS has a history of using negative LOD bias, so it could just be that NVidia clamps/ignores it while ATI is respecting the dev's setting.

Devs using negative LOD bias should be shot, though. :devilish:
 
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