AMD: R7xx Speculation
- Thread starter Unknown Soldier
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I don't think that's accurate. Where has Nvidia ever claimed that "performance doesn't matter"? I think you're guilty of some of the things that you accuse Nvidia of. They never claimed that the number of cores doesn't matter. What they claimed is that their "128 core" part had equal performance to a competing "800 core" product. I don't see how that's misleading if it's true!
That's the definition of marketing.
All things that AMD does as well.
I may be jaded but that's not the reason why I don't get all upset. These companies aren't playing hopscotch in the park. I just find it silly that Nvidia pointing out what is essentially the truth would offend anyone. They have a history of being underhanded but in this particular case I don't see anything wrong with what they're saying as a practical matter.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
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How can it be the truth when they change their minds all the time?
More cores = important when Nvidia has them and ATI doesn't (G80).
More cores = irrelevant when ATI have them against Nvidia (R770)
More cores = important when Nvidia have them against Intel. (CPU)
Sure, you can look at the power of the cores, but that's not what Nvidia is doing unless it suits their message because they would then have to consider just how ridiculously over the top the number of cores in RV770 is, to the extent that it's making up the difference. Nvidia's certainly happy not to look at the big picture when it comes to bragging about all those cores it has more than an Intel CPU, because then they would have to consider the lack of X86.
Anyway, I'm drifting off-topic so I'd better stop.
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Best die shots yet
Supposed 4870 performance provided by Sapphire:
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_24110474/tm.htm
Looks like the card will be 20-25% faster than the 4850 after all. Looks like 20% higher core clocks + better memory bandwidth should help, and I bet the gap gets larger as higher AA and res's are used.
Supposed 4870 performance provided by Sapphire:
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_24110474/tm.htm
Looks like the card will be 20-25% faster than the 4850 after all. Looks like 20% higher core clocks + better memory bandwidth should help, and I bet the gap gets larger as higher AA and res's are used.
If R700 does not work on AFR-base, it should be possible. Else you would have a 7 FPS input-lag.
You're simply stating the obvious which is that marketing is focused on highlighting a product's strengths vs the competition.
What you forgot to mention is that in all three scenarios the measured performance backs up the claims so I see nothing to get upset over. In the comparisons where Nvidia had more "cores" they also had more performance, this isn't the case when AMD is winning the core count comparison.
Those benchmarks make no sense. The 4850 vs 9800GTX scores in Crysis don't tally up to other reviews.
Although I suppose as a 4850 vs 4870 comparison point it could be usefull.
Subtlesnake
Regular
In those benchmarks the 4870 loses only 13%, going from no AA to 8xAA in Crysis at 1920x1200. Pretty amazing.
Nice looking card. I really like what AMD has done with the black/red contrast this time around.
Sapphires Vantage scores for the 8800GT and 4850 seem to be lower and higher respectively compared to http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=579&type=expert&pid=6 though.
Jawed
Legend
Assuming that RV770's die is square, and assuming that each of those 10 rows is a SIMD:
So, one SIMD is about 4.1% of the die, which I guess is about 10.4mm2
How big is one multiprocessor in GT200? About 5mm2 on 65nm? (According to Arun 30 SMs are 26.5% of the die - then assuming 576mm2 die.)
Jawed
- 4 MADs including register file
- 1 MAD/transcendental with no register file
- sequencer including constant/instruction cache
So, one SIMD is about 4.1% of the die, which I guess is about 10.4mm2
How big is one multiprocessor in GT200? About 5mm2 on 65nm? (According to Arun 30 SMs are 26.5% of the die - then assuming 576mm2 die.)
Jawed
How much faster are the clocks on 4870? Is it 750 core or 850?
If it's 750, that's 20% faster than 4850, assuming all else equal between them, which of course isnt right but for simplicity, then going back to the French review, the 4870 will give the 260 all it wants. Basically being just as fast overall, sometimes faster, sometimes slower. If the 329 price on 4870 is true, that will present a problem. I hate to keep relying on that french review, it might be overly ATI friendly for some reason, but it does have 4850/GT200 benches all in one place which makes it easy.
Edit: Now I see the 4870 clock is indeed 750, but the price is an even better 299.
If it's 750, that's 20% faster than 4850, assuming all else equal between them, which of course isnt right but for simplicity, then going back to the French review, the 4870 will give the 260 all it wants. Basically being just as fast overall, sometimes faster, sometimes slower. If the 329 price on 4870 is true, that will present a problem. I hate to keep relying on that french review, it might be overly ATI friendly for some reason, but it does have 4850/GT200 benches all in one place which makes it easy.
Edit: Now I see the 4870 clock is indeed 750, but the price is an even better 299.
Freak'n Big Panda
Regular
Hardly. That's the definition of dishonesty.
Not to nearly the same degree.
NV's marketing could be a lot better, they've got a down right horrible track record when it comes to this stuff. The stuff they did to promote NV30 vs R300 was just ridiculous and the fact that many consumers were still mislead by their BS campaign just proves how unethical it is. It's on the same level as companies selling $500 power cables but arguably worse because in this industry the consumer requires far more knowledge to make an informed purchase.
This time around it will not be nearly as bad as the whole NV30 dealy but NVs PR tactics still annoy the hell out of me.
Only with 8x AA.
With 4x or less the scores are much closer. Pretty even with the 9800GTX. Thats certainly a great turn around for AMD given that this is the slower of the two parts but it doesn't make it the new R300. For that, the 48xx series would have to be faster than the competition
These don't look good imo even though the 8800GT is a OC version.
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=...&cid=0&usg=AFQjCNGg1jhOgy7ME9qdPd2rAXsAHVYtGA
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=...&cid=0&usg=AFQjCNGg1jhOgy7ME9qdPd2rAXsAHVYtGA
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
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