AMD needs money?

[nonamer]

... with a lot of financial support from the NY state government.
I wouldn't be too worried in the short to middle term: it's surprising how long big companies can survive, even when turning out a loss year after year. The important part is not to default on loans, but that's relatively easy to do: there are a lot of different ways to refinance debts.

I didn't say AMD is close to going under, but the finances have gotten a lot worse, and stand to get worse still. I'd say they went from a mostly comfy position to a mostly uncomfortable position.

No, that's not true. Goodwill is the amount above the tangible net asset value that was paid by a company to purchase another company. It could be for stuff like the perceived quality of the employees that may result in more business later on. Or the good reputation of the company. A bit wishy washy really.

When this intangible value never materializes (the employees weren't that good after all), a company can write it off. In that case, it will show up as a loss on the books, but it doesn't cost real money. It usually results in a drop in the stock price, because the write off effectively reduces the assets of the company.


So, no, it's not the complete market value. It's the additional value of the net assets.

I know what goodwill is. However, the goodwill here was used to hide $3 billion in additional debt use to fund the ATI purchase. While writing off goodwill does nothing in the absolute sense, it will expose the poor financial nature of the purchase.

 

[silent_guy]

However, the goodwill here was used to hide $3 billion in additional debt use to fund the ATI purchase. While writing off goodwill does nothing in the absolute sense, it will expose the poor financial nature of the purchase.

Yes, that makes sense.

 

[epicstruggle]

The fab in New York has not been finalized. Last i heard there were grumblings amongst the locals over how much money was being given as incentives to AMD.

epic

 

[epicstruggle]

Just checking the volume chart for amd and someone made a big purchase. I wonder if somethings afoot.

epic

 

[_xxx_]

How big?

 

[epicstruggle]

How big?

between 2-3 million shares (about .25% of outstanding shares)

 

[trinibwoy]

Just checking the volume chart for amd and someone made a big purchase. I wonder if somethings afoot.

epic

Maybe they saw the first 3dmark numbers from R600

 

[_xxx_]

between 2-3 million shares (about .25% of outstanding shares)

Wow! Now I'm curious...

 

[nonamer]

And now the R600 slips into Q2: http://xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070221023825.html

That's bad. Quite bad.

 

[Geo]

And now the R600 slips into Q2: http://xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070221023825.html

That's bad. Quite bad.

It's not good for the enthusiast segment, surely. But that segment is only 5-8% of the GPU market by volume (a bit more by revenue). I think we need to see the entire lineup vs NV's lineup (who also isn't addressing low/mid yet with next gen parts; even GTS 320 is still in the high end catagory) before you go punching any panic buttons generically on the GPU side. NV once kept the doors open on the strength of GFFX 5200.

 

[nonamer]

It's not good for the enthusiast segment, surely. But that segment is only 5-8% of the GPU market by volume (a bit more by revenue). I think we need to see the entire lineup vs NV's lineup (who also isn't addressing low/mid yet with next gen parts; even GTS 320 is still in the high end catagory) before you go punching any panic buttons generically on the GPU side. NV once kept the doors open on the strength of GFFX 5200.

It's also the most profitable 5-8% of the market. Nvidia survived the NV30 on the backs of the low-end, it didn't win on the backs of the low-end, and it certainly didn't see a lot of profits. For a company that may face a cash crunch, it's looking like another hard blow. Worse, this seems to indicate something is wrong with the R600.

 

[epicstruggle]

That's bad. Quite bad.

They are taking a sizeable hit in the stockmarket this morning (nv is too).

epic

 

[Ateo]

It's not good for the enthusiast segment, surely. But that segment is only 5-8% of the GPU market by volume (a bit more by revenue). I think we need to see the entire lineup vs NV's lineup (who also isn't addressing low/mid yet with next gen parts; even GTS 320 is still in the high end catagory) before you go punching any panic buttons generically on the GPU side. NV once kept the doors open on the strength of GFFX 5200.

I agree, but how much "king of the hill" dosn't rub of in the lower segments?
I mean, it's not for fun they compete so vigorously for the "crown"

 

[Geo]

Sure, you'd rather have the halo than not. GF6600GT and GF6800GT pretty conclusively proved it is not the be-all and end-all tho. Understand, I'm certainly not suggesting that this R600 delay and the wording associated with it is a positive for AMD. It isn't. Trying to paint it as disaster is a bit much, is all I'm saying.

 

[nonamer]

Sure, you'd rather have the halo than not. GF6600GT and GF6800GT pretty conclusively proved it is not the be-all and end-all tho. Understand, I'm certainly not suggesting that this R600 delay and the wording associated with it is a positive for AMD. It isn't. Trying to paint it as disaster is a bit much, is all I'm saying.

I would say not yet a disaster but it's quickly heading into that direction. Nvidia lost several hundred million dollars on the NV30 and they did not fully recover until 2005. Also, they were pretty brilliant in saving themselves with the NV4x line of cards because usually a tech base for a GPU lasts 2 years and not 1. They also were on top of the world at that time, with a successful NV2x line and the very rich Xbox GPU and southbridge deal.

R600 is smelling of the same problems as the NV30, and neither ATI nor AMD is not know for coming out with great products quickly like Nvidia is known to do. AMD is also not as well off as Nvidia was when the NV30 came out. If our worse fears are confirmed, this is deeply troubling for AMD.

 

[Geo]

R600 is smelling of the same problems as the NV30

Looks like argument by assertion to me. Or are you seriously suggesting that the competition will be 2x faster in high-res high-AA scenarios? Can we make a bet on that?

 

[Ateo]

Sure, you'd rather have the halo than not. GF6600GT and GF6800GT pretty conclusively proved it is not the be-all and end-all tho. Understand, I'm certainly not suggesting that this R600 delay and the wording associated with it is a positive for AMD. It isn't. Trying to paint it as disaster is a bit much, is all I'm saying.

I'm not painting "gloom and doom", don't worry, but I do think folks in Santa Clara is smiling wide right now

And the PR "dent" in AMD/ATI is there for sure, just look a forums, we all know how this is going to spread like a wildfire.

I want AMD/ATI to survive as a STRONG competitor to both INTEL and NVIDIA, that is in my own best interest(preformance/price), that is why this is like a blow to the gut for me, not good news, but also ot the end of the world agreed

 

[nonamer]

Looks like argument by assertion to me. Or are you seriously suggesting that the competition will be 2x faster in high-res high-AA scenarios? Can we make a bet on that?

I didn't say it will be a NV30. I don't think any future GPU will flop as badly as that one. But it does seem to have, in general, the same problems: late, underperforming, and overly power-hungry.

 

[Geo]

Oh, no question, not good news. Going to be a rough few months still, I think. But, you know, there is the GF6 family precident to look at, even if worst fears are true (which we have no way of knowing yet, as we don't have one). NV did not have the performance leader there at the tippy-top, and did very well with the family as a whole.

 

[nonamer]

Oh, no question, not good news. Going to be a rough few months still, I think. But, you know, there is the GF6 family precident to look at, even if worst fears are true (which we have no way of knowing yet, as we don't have one). NV did not have the performance leader there at the tippy-top, and did very well with the family as a whole.

IIRC, GF6800GTX < X800XT PE, but GF6800GT > X800XT. Problem was that the PE was nowhere to be found for months, so for all practical purposes GF6800GTX was the sole performance leader for most of the generation. Also, the 6800GT was only a clockspeed downgrade, and it went against the X800XT which had reduced pipes. That means the big mover of the product lines went resoundingly towards the GF6 line. Plus the NV40 had SLI and SM3.0, something the R420 line didn't have.

This was a very surprising recovery from Nvidia. I find hard to believe that a company can simply pull a rabbit of its hat when asked. ATI probably does not a have a miracle product waiting in the wings to save them in 2008.