AMD Execution Thread [2023]

[DegustatoR]

And yet we've seen plenty of sub par implementations including with fsr, dlss xess.

Define "sub par". There were implementations which had some issues but this doesn't tell us anything about how many time and effort went into them - likely not a lot as the majority of said issues should be easily fixable in the engine.

Whether that was the reason or not I'm sure getting multiple versions in the game was probably lowest on their priorities, regardless of how easy it is to do.

You don't have to get multiple versions, just use Streamline or do your own wrapper - as Nixxes seem to have done. All these upscaling solutions are similar enough in their inputs to be a drop in replacement for each other - which is nicely demonstrated by modders already.

From consoles I'm only aware of regular current frame upscaling, but have they (Bethesda the studio, not the publisher) used TAA with Creation in any capacity before? They may have, I don't know. But I'm asking.

Fallout 4 has TAA.

 

[Jay]

Define "sub par". There were implementations which had some issues but this doesn't tell us anything about how many time and effort went into them - likely not a lot as the majority of said issues should be easily fixable in the engine.

Therefore some time has to be put in, which could be low on a studios list of priorities, and that's the point.

You don't have to get multiple versions, just use Streamline or do your own wrapper - as Nixxes seem to have done. All these upscaling solutions are similar enough in their inputs to be a drop in replacement for each other - which is nicely demonstrated by modders already.

As demonstrated by modders it doesn't always work well or to similar quality.
As a studio they should be QA'ing the implementations and fixing them.
A feature could take 10min to 'implement' and still not make the cut due to priorities.

All you have to do is look at day one patches, launch bugs, delayed features to see development is right up to the wire with priorities.
You can question their priorities, but for me it's easy to see why FSR2 could be good enough for them.

 

[DegustatoR]

Therefore some time has to be put in, which could be low on a studios list of priorities, and that's the point.

This point would be valid if the game wouldn't have any upscaling at all. But it does have FSR2, so the 99% of effort needed to integrate all three are already spent.

 

[Jay]

This point would be valid if the game wouldn't have any upscaling at all. But it does have FSR2, so the 99% of effort needed to integrate all three are already spent.

When you have 100's of things to do it does matter especially from a project managers perspective especially running up to delivery.

Considering the decisions I've seen studios make, regardless of how irrational I personally think they are, doesn't stop them from making them.
But you obviously think that when all 3 upscaling tech isn't implemented it has to be because of contracts, I'll have to agree to disagree with you there.

 

[DavidGraham]

As I said in the other thread, It's about AMD being silent and saying stuff like "no comment" to the press -when asked directly- for two months. AMD only came clean right now because they managed to amend the contract with Bethesda. They also managed to amend the contract with Ubisoft for Avatar Pandora, which is an AMD sponsored title releasing with both DLSS and FSR at launch. Guess the internet backlash really worked this time.

Also, the AMD rep is being cagey about all of this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695171712403255778

 

[Kaotik]

As I said in the other thread, It's about AMD being silent and saying stuff like "no comment" to the press -when asked directly- for two months. AMD only came clean right now because they managed to amend the contract with Bethesda. They also managed to amend the contract with Ubisoft for Avatar Pandora, which is an AMD sponsored title releasing with both DLSS and FSR at launch. Guess the internet backlash really worked this time.

Also, the AMD rep is being cagey about all of this.

You're starting to sound like social media justice, we got the guilty party, now let's find a crime no matter how many previous theories fall flat. And do so, continously, by stating those accusations as facts.

(ps. NVIDIA requires DLSS logos etc which might be an issue )

 

[DegustatoR]

(ps. NVIDIA requires DLSS logos etc which might be an issue )

Could you show us these "DLSS logos" which Nvidia apparently requires?

 

[Kaotik]

Could you show us these "DLSS logos" which Nvidia apparently requires?

No, but the text related to it I can. There's also bunch of stuff like giving NVIDIA permission to use the game in their marketing etc etc which might not sit too well when someone else is sponsoring the game

(b) NVIDIA Trademark Placement in Applications. For applications that incorporate the NVIDIA RTX SDK or
portions thereof, you must attribute the use of the RTX SDK by including the NVIDIA Marks on splash
screens, in the about box of the application (if present), and in credits for game applications.

(c) Marketing and Promotion by You. You will include a reference to the NVIDIA RTX SDK and NVIDIA in all
of your press releases for the applications that were developed with use of the SDK, and you will identify
NVIDIA as the provider of “NVIDIA RTX™” (or such other term or phrase as indicated by NVIDIA from time
to time).
(d) Identification by NVIDIA. You agree that NVIDIA may identify you on NVIDIA's websites, printed
collateral, trade-show displays, and other retail packaging materials as an individual or entity that produces
products and services which incorporate the NVIDIA RTX SDK. To the extent that you provide NVIDIA with
input or usage requests with regard to the use of your logo or materials, NVIDIA will use commercially
reasonable efforts to comply with such requests. For the avoidance of doubt, NVIDIA’s rights pursuant to
this section shall survive any expiration or termination of the Agreement with respect to existing applications
which incorporate the NVIDIA RTX SDK.
(e) Applications Marketing Material. You may provide NVIDIA with screenshots, imagery, and video footage
of applications representative of your use of the NVIDIA RTX SDKs in your application (collectively, “Assets”).
You hereby grant to NVIDIA the right to create and display self-promotional demo materials using the
Assets, and after release of the application to the public to distribute, sub-license, and use the Assets to
promote and market the NVIDIA RTX SDK. To the extent you provide NVIDIA with input or usage requests
with regard to the use of your logo or materials, NVIDIA will use commercially reasonable efforts to comply with such requests. For the avoidance of doubt, NVIDIA’s rights pursuant to this section shall survive any
termination of the Agreement with respect to applications which incorporate the NVIDIA RTX SDK.

Part of DLSS license agreement

 

[DegustatoR]

No, but the text related to it I can. There's also bunch of stuff like giving NVIDIA permission to use the game in their marketing etc etc which might not sit too well when someone else is sponsoring the game

The only thing which is required by DLSS license is to state the copyright - like any game does for any of the dozens of copyrighted middleware they may be using. If AMD has an issue with such copyrights then they can't use FSR with Unreal Engine I guess. Oh, wait.

 

[Kaotik]

The only thing which is required by DLSS license is to state the copyright - like any game does for any of the dozens of copyrighted middleware they may be using. If AMD has an issue with such copyrights then they can't use FSR with Unreal Engine I guess. Oh, wait.

I'm just stating what NVIDIA wrote in their license agreement, not pulling things out of thin air and expect everyone to take it as a fact.
Did forget the actual link though so here's that too

https://developer.nvidia.com/downloads/dlss/license_agreement

Or more similar stuff from the new dlss 3.5 SDK

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks/nvidia_rtx_sdks_license_12apr2021.pdf

 

[DavidGraham]

You're starting to sound like social media justice

I am just using my head, AMD ignored the press for two months and never cared to lift a finger to pass a long their denial statement, they only came around right now with "they are free if they wanna do it" because they made sure to unshackle the developer first and made sure they are truly free.

 

[DegustatoR]

I'm just stating what NVIDIA wrote in their license agreement

Could you name the section which says what you're stating then?
Because what I've said is stated in section 2.b. in the last link you've provided for example.

 

[DavidGraham]

ps. NVIDIA requires DLSS logos etc which might be an issue

It's not, NVIDIA makes exception for that for developers, and other AMD sponsored games included DLSS before, without showing any logos. So it's a non issue.

 

[Kaotik]

Could you name the section which says what you're stating then?
Because what I've said is stated in section 2.b. in the last link you've provided for example.

Section 6, marketing. What you stated isn't there, you claimed it's the only required thing, which 2.b by far isn't.

I am just using my head, AMD ignored the press for two months and never cared to lift a finger to pass a long their denial statement, they only came around right now with "they are free if they wanna do it" because they made sure to unshackle the developer first and made sure they are truly free.

No, you're using head to come to a conclusions which you've decided beforehand regardless of anything AMD does or doesn't do. And continue stating your opinions as facts.

 

[DegustatoR]

Section 6, marketing

This section is for projects which are in co-marketing deal with Nvidia only.
Also there is nothing about marketing in sec.6 of any of your links? Here's the actual current DLSS license: https://github.com/NVIDIA/DLSS/blob/main/LICENSE.txt

What you stated isn't there, you claimed it's the only required thing, which 2.b by far isn't.

Yes, it is.
You're spreading misinformation again which goes in direct conflict with whatever games with DLSS we have which used AMD's promo program.
In other words what you're saying is already proved wrong by the reality. So just stop please.

 

[Kaotik]

This section is for projects which are in co-marketing deal with Nvidia only.
Also there is nothing about marketing in sec.6 of any of your links? Here's the actual current DLSS license: https://github.com/NVIDIA/DLSS/blob/main/LICENSE.txt


Yes, it is.
You're spreading misinformation again which goes in direct conflict with whatever games with DLSS we have which used AMD's promo program.
In other words what you're saying is already proved wrong by the reality. So just stop please.

I've provided links to the documents straight from NVIDIA above, which of at least latter is up to date (comes with DLSS 3.5 SDK)

 

[DegustatoR]

I've provided links to the documents straight from NVIDIA above, which of at least latter is up to date (comes with DLSS 3.5 SDK)

And these documents don't have what you say they do.

 

[Kaotik]

And these documents don't have what you say they do.

It was literally straight quote from the first one. 2nd one has similar terms, can do copy-paste from the latter which has similar wording on related portions if you want. You can't just pick'n'choose which parts of the license you want. NVIDIA may or may not enforce them and negotiate per licencee basis on details but that needs more than your word on it.

 

[DegustatoR]

It was literally straight quote from the first one. 2nd one has similar terms, can do copy-paste from the latter which has similar wording on related portions if you want. You can't just pick'n'choose which parts of the license you want. NVIDIA may or may not enforce them and negotiate per licencee basis on details but that needs more than your word on it.

Again, I've linked the license. What is required started in section 2.b. Anything else is subject to other agreements and isn't a requirement, as has been proven many times by the games which launch with DLSS while not having any Nvidia splash screens or anything of the sort.

If you're willing to deny the reality then that's on you.

 

[Remij]

It's a smart move. Everyone who wants to buy this game is going to do so whether it has DLSS or not. Bethesda launches with FSR2... AMD is a happy sponsor... makes the game run better than it otherwise would... tech sites benchmark, test, and compare.. and then in the weeks following launch, DLSS2 is added and they get the name in the headlines again... and tech sites again return to test FSR2 vs DLSS2. Then after that comes FSR3 and DLSS3 support and then it happens again.