AMD confirms R680 is two chips on one board

[vertex_shader]

I see the 3870x2 in the same way I see the 8800 GT. 8800GT didn't completely demolish every other GPU, but it gave us similar performance to the $500+ 8800 GTX for $200 less. How can you not be excited that a $449 GPU can take the top spot from a $659 GPU (lowest price I can find for an 8800 Ultra on newegg)?

Its not so easy question, becaue X2 performance as early reviews show not really balanced like the single core 8800ultra, so maybe avarage X2 can be 15% faster, but when there is still games where its 30%+ slower, than enhusiast users won't be happy for sure. (i'm not one of them but i think X2 is just too little, too late, of course i see this is already a step forward from the situation what happend last year)

I read some different forum where enhusiast customers who has GTX/ULTRA what write about X2, mostly write X2 not worth for upgrading because its not really a upgrade, just a cost effectiver solution for enthusiast customers who not has a GTX/ULTRA (hard to belive there is too many exist who not buy a GTX/ULTRA yet, or not a new one), so when this segment users not want buy it than who want?

 

[compres]

I am more interested in the crossfire X results, with 3 or 4 3870s or 2 3870X2s. Any idea of when those drivers will be available if at all?

 

[Dave Baumann]

With respect to driver improvements...

Catalyst 7.6

AMD’s ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT continues to see performance increases and it is clear that this month the driver team had their eye on improving OpenGL performance, which is great considering Enemy Territory is just around the corner.

Catalyst 7.8

Talk about one extreme to the other - the 7.7driver set did very little for us in just about every way but the 7.8 drivers have knocked the ball out of the court. These are an absolutely fantastic driver for anyone who has or is thinking about adopting a new HD 2600 card from AMD.

This could be the driver we need to get the performance up and above the Nvidia competition.

Catalyst 7.10

We have only scratched the surface of the latest drivers but gains are clearly there. In a perfect world we would test all the games along with Crossfire and single card solutions. We don’t doubt though that AMD have delivered on the promise, as the games we did test saw some decent increases.

This is clearly a driver worth updating to, especially if you’re running a Crossfire setup it would seem.

Catalyst 8.1

Considering there was nothing in the press release about performance improvements it’s nice to see that we have got a bit of a speed bump anyway.

Thats just a few examples from TweakTowns Catalyst tests over the past 7 months or so - they are also not testing all titles.

Driver performance increases are always on the go - you may not see every release with improvements, but work is always continuing we've delivered significant gains. Cat 7.10 was, of course, very significant for a number of DX10 apps where Crossfire is concerned.

 

[Subtlesnake]

Yeah, WRT to the Crossfire improvements in 7.10:

"Update (10/10/07): The real magic of AMD's Catalyst 7.10 update comes when you plug in a second HD 2900 XT card -- our CrossFire experiences with this driver were WORLDS above what we had to deal with on the 7.9 driver revision. In all of our games we saw notable improvements in the scaling of CrossFire and in some cases turned a negative performance gain into a strong positive one. In Bioshock we saw a 54% gain in CrossFire performance, in Company of Heroes we saw a 73% gain and in World of Conflict a 93% gain. The other two titles, Call of Juarez and Lost Planet, which already had CrossFire scaling with the 7.9 driver, still saw improvements of 9% and 20% respectively when tested with the new Catalyst 7.10 drivers."

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=463&type=expert&pid=13

Given that the 3870 X2 is a multi-GPU solution, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect scaling improvements; indeed isn't that the norm?

 

[Jawed]

Given that the 3870 X2 is a multi-GPU solution, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect scaling improvements; indeed isn't that the norm?

The difference is that with a single card you might be waiting a month or two to get "the right performance" in the brand new hotly anticipated game. With a multi-GPU system, you rank as right up there with the people running 9500 Pros and other minority stuff, in terms of priority. How long will you wait then?

Jawed

 

[compres]

The difference is that with a single card you might be waiting a month or two to get "the right performance" in the brand new hotly anticipated game. With a multi-GPU system, you rank as right up there with the people running 9500 Pros and other minority stuff, in terms of priority. How long will you wait then?

Jawed

There is one difference, the xfire product is the flagship new card this time.

 

[Mariner]

There is one difference, the xfire product is the flagship new card this time.

Also, from what we know, future high-end products should be multi-chip as well so it would seem unlikely that Crossfire support with be abandoned at any point in the near future.

Same goes for NVidia, I suppose.

 

[Albuquerque]

I'd agree; previous support of Crossfire really was relegated to the scant few who could afford it and didn't mind the power consumption or niggly issues with games and apps.

Just like the two above me have mentioned, with the advent of the X2, CF has the opportunity come into the mainstream. Both ATI and NV have made it clear that multi-GPU seems to be the preferred direction to go for at least the next 12 months. For all of us who already have crossfire, I have to say "YES!!"

 

[swaaye]

Yeah -- because we're dealing with crossfire. I've seen a game go from no crossfire support (framerate is less than a single card) to all the sudden getting crossfire support (framerate is now 50% more than a single card). That's a pretty substantial framerate increase for a single driver, and it's entirely possible for any game that doesn't currently support CF (there's quite a few)

Yes but this is a double-edged sword to say the least. We could end up with plenty of games that don't get the needed driver developer attention and perform much worse than they would on a card powered by a single GPU.

I am not very comfortable with these dual GPU solutions that need game dev or driver dev attention to deliver their promised speed. However, considering the IHVs are making these major parts of their line up instead of just freak cards (heh), I suppose that the driver issue could be much better than it was with 7950GX2. Hopefully you don't see a major falloff of support after a couple of years though (once a card is thoroughly out of the limelight and profit producer role).

 

[Jawed]

There is one difference, the xfire product is the flagship new card this time.

The apparent difficulty in getting the game to work on a multi-GPU system doesn't magically disappear because it's the flagship.

Jawed

 

[vertex_shader]

Gecube card coming with Thermaltake DuOrb cooler:

Some picture for different brand's mostly reference desing with AIB's own sticker.

 

[Sound_Card]

While everybody was looking forward to reading HD3870 X2 reviews today, AMD decided to postpone the NDA break by a few days. Contrary to popular belief this didn't happen due to shortage of hardware but due to driver issues which were pointed out by DriverHeaven.net during their testing under NDA.

AMD confirmed several of the issues that were reported and are hard at work, fixing them one by one in order to ensure a smooth launch next Monday.

I thought it may have been a driver issue.

 

[MrGaribaldi]

The apparent difficulty in getting the game to work on a multi-GPU system doesn't magically disappear because it's the flagship.

True, but when it is the flagship chances are more resources will be relegated to fixing those problems instead of them being put on the backburner...

Also, with both IHV's releasing X2 solutions, it isn't too unlikely to think that game dev's will do more to support X2 cards than they do now...

 

[Jawed]

True, but when it is the flagship chances are more resources will be relegated to fixing those problems instead of them being put on the backburner...

Also, with both IHV's releasing X2 solutions, it isn't too unlikely to think that game dev's will do more to support X2 cards than they do now...

http://www.driverheaven.net/news/153389-announcement-amd-x2-review.html

I have had a few emails today asking us where our review is for the new AMD X2 video card. The original NDA was due to break on the 23rd (today), however when we received our press sample, our graphics card analyst Veridian3 found issues which we reported to AMD HQ in Canada. These issues have since been verified and AMD have pushed the NDA date back several days. AMD are in fact working with us on driver issues and are rectifying many of the reports.

Our review will be published whenever we complete testing on the new drivers we are receiving, as we aim to ensure the most accurate and detailed analysis we possibly can for our readers (you guys).

We would like to appauld AMD for their work this week and for the professional attitude they have shown to improve the end users experience.

And I wouldn't count on NVidia using X2 as its enthusiast flagship. I think NVidia's sticking with single chips for quite a while yet. The inbound GX2 will be nothing more than a placeholder for a GPU that is, admittedly, running behind schedule...

RV670 has been floating around AMD as a working chip for about 5 months now...

Jawed

 

[vertex_shader]

Originally Posted by WhO_KnOwS
While everybody was looking forward to reading HD3870 X2 reviews today, AMD decided to postpone the NDA break by a few days. Contrary to popular belief this didn't happen due to shortage of hardware but due to driver issues which were pointed out by DriverHeaven.net during their testing under NDA.

AMD confirmed several of the issues that were reported and are hard at work, fixing them one by one in order to ensure a smooth launch next Monday.

This make no sense, card exist sience months, launch delayed only 6 days, reviewers done with the reviews, not enough time to do anything "magical". (and why ATi realize from a site review the card performance is not good? this make no sense either).
This driver story is a never ending saga, when new driver won't change anything next can come the OEM/SI part of the saga.

Anyway they not need to hurry now, GX2 weeks away and thats not count 583 or 589 days after they loose the king of the hill crown get it back.

 

[MrGaribaldi]

Interesting, but doesn't that just give support to my line of thinking that with this being the flagship it will get better support than CF has gotten so far?

As for Nvidia, that is a good point I hadn't thought of... But even so, if they manage to move enough units, it might (hopefully) be enough for dev's to take notice...

 

[sir doris]

I suppose that the driver issue could be much better than it was with 7950GX2. Hopefully you don't see a major falloff of support after a couple of years though (once a card is thoroughly out of the limelight and profit producer role).

This is my concern as I own a GX2 and the driver support just isn't there for some games, and you just know there isn't a team at nV or at software houses dedicated to optomising things for the 7950GX2 with the GeForce 8 series out now.

 

[ChrisRay]

This is my concern as I own a GX2 and the driver support just isn't there for some games, and you just know there isn't a team at nV or at software houses dedicated to optomising things for the 7950GX2 with the GeForce 8 series out now.

In XP it wont be unfortunately. However Nvidia's profile system they are implementing for AFR under Vista should ensure much better compatibility. I was talking to Rys earlier on MSN and I was explaining to him how you can take existing AFR compatibility bits and force them into 3way/4way AFR with little difficulty on Nvidia's newer system.

Examples being.

Say you have an SLI profile.

<PROPERTY Label="multichip_rendering_mode" Value="0x00000001" Default="0x00000001" Itemtype="predefined" />

This is a basic AFR rendering profile. With a single compatibility bit. Say you wanted to make this profile work with 3 way. You'd make these changes.

<PROPERTY Label="multichip_rendering_mode" Value="0x00000006" Default="0x00000006" Itemtype="predefined" />

Now this profile is backwards compatible with 2 way SLI as well. Ok say you wanted to take it a step above and go for 4 way.

<PROPERTY Label="multichip_rendering_mode" Value="0x00000008" Default="0x00000008" Itemtype="predefined" />

This profile bit should be backwards compatible with 2 way and 3 way as well as support 4 way AFR. This is a very basic SLI profile but even the more advanced ones should work as well. This is the direction Nvidia is currently taking with its profiling system from what I have noticed. Of course this may be subject to change. Unfortunately with regards to multi GPU. XP is basically a dinosaur. You can get a taste of this with Nvidia's current QUAD beta driver for 7950GX2 cards under Vista. But profile's probably arent all in place and would require alot of editing ((as I have shown here)) to ensure 4 way AFR support.

Chris

 

[Shtal]

The inbound GX2 will be nothing more than a placeholder for a GPU that is, admittedly, running behind schedule...

I would like to add that Nvidia upcoming GF9800GX2 will be slower vs. SLI GF8800GTS-512 due to air flow limited between 2 PCB's glue together, just like GF7950GX2 500MHz per GPU vs. SLI 7900GTX 650MHz.
Upcoming Nvidia GF9800GX2 with slower clock frequency will perform about same speed as full blown ATI Radeon 3870X2 2x-825MHz GPU.

Edit: Here is the example why I believe Nvidia-9800GX2 will not dethrone ATI-3870X2. (ATI-R680 will be the fastest until ATI-R700 and Nvidia G100 comes out)

Down-clock 550MHz_GPU-G92 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=171932

GeForce 9800GX2 is two 8800-512 PCB together, but clocks of GPU a MEMs will be lowest, because heat. I underclock GPU/MEM from 650/1940 to 550/1800 in SLI and now i am testing games with. You can see results in first game

 

[compres]

The apparent difficulty in getting the game to work on a multi-GPU system doesn't magically disappear because it's the flagship.

You were originally talking about priorities:

With a multi-GPU system, you rank as right up there with the people running 9500 Pros and other minority stuff, in terms of priority. How long will you wait then?

My point stands: It is now the flagship, not "the other minority stuff".